AC Presence on FT

Old Jun 30, 15, 10:02 am
  #1561  
 
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Originally Posted by superangrypenguin View Post
Has anyone else noticed Ben appears to no longer post on this board?
He posted twice yesterday.
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Old Jun 30, 15, 11:18 am
  #1562  
 
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Originally Posted by bingocallerb22 View Post
It is not as if it is one or the other. Surely difficult to find someone fully knowledgeable about the all operations of AC coming from the communications stream. But maybe not so hard to find someone knowlegeable and give them some basic communications training. As a specialist in my organization they gave me training as a spokeperson before thrusting me before the cameras and microphones. I was surprised Ben L received no training before officially posting as a company rep. Even the basics, such as don't shoot from the hip as a reaction, write a response and let it ferment and be proofread before sending it later, edit it before pressing the submit button not after etc.
Originally Posted by ACB777 View Post
+1 the company has an opportunity to interact and engage with super users and some basic training on how to interact with such a group of customers would go along way. it speaks to the culture @ AC corporate that this has not happened
Well then I think I just need to agree to disagree, and I'm ok being the outlier here.

I would rather have Ben L, as is, straight, blunt & honest (even if he shuts down my opinions) than someone who has been trained to hold things back and be careful of what they say (and in the process not sharing as much information).
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Old Jun 30, 15, 11:21 am
  #1563  
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Originally Posted by j_the_p View Post
He posted twice yesterday.
I think you missed it when he posted he was on vacation

Originally Posted by Sean Peever View Post
Well then I think I just need to agree to disagree, and I'm ok being the outlier here.

I would rather have Ben L, as is, straight, blunt & honest (even if he shuts down my opinions) than someone who has been trained to hold things back and be careful of what they say (and in the process not sharing as much information).
I kept my mouth shut the entire time. I'm with you there. I'd rather he post minus the bull that the official channels post. Don't we give enough grief about enhancements and the like when a member of the official channel posts?
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Old Jun 30, 15, 12:48 pm
  #1564  
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Originally Posted by Sean Peever
Originally Posted by bingocallerb22 View Post
It is not as if it is one or the other. Surely difficult to find someone fully knowledgeable about the all operations of AC coming from the communications stream. But maybe not so hard to find someone knowlegeable and give them some basic communications training. As a specialist in my organization they gave me training as a spokeperson before thrusting me before the cameras and microphones. I was surprised Ben L received no training before officially posting as a company rep. Even the basics, such as don't shoot from the hip as a reaction, write a response and let it ferment and be proofread before sending it later, edit it before pressing the submit button not after etc.
Originally Posted by ACB777 View Post
+1 the company has an opportunity to interact and engage with super users and some basic training on how to interact with such a group of customers would go along way. it speaks to the culture @ AC corporate that this has not happened
Well then I think I just need to agree to disagree, and I'm ok being the outlier here.

I would rather have Ben L, as is, straight, blunt & honest (even if he shuts down my opinions) than someone who has been trained to hold things back and be careful of what they say (and in the process not sharing as much information).
Oddly the main complaint here seems to be that too many participants were too "straight, blunt & honest".
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Old Jun 30, 15, 1:18 pm
  #1565  
 
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Originally Posted by Sean Peever View Post
Well then I think I just need to agree to disagree, and I'm ok being the outlier here.

I would rather have Ben L, as is, straight, blunt & honest (even if he shuts down my opinions) than someone who has been trained to hold things back and be careful of what they say (and in the process not sharing as much information).
Of course Sean it is OK we have different perspectives.

Again, even in this, it is not the either / or you seem to suggest. I see a continuum between both extremes – free flowing in-your-face push back and overly controlled deceptive babble. Even behind a keyboard anonymously we do exercise control, appropriately. The other extreme, TopTier, where they just broadcast misleading propaganda and never had even the courtesy to answer questions in the threads they started was an abysmal failure. I am looking for somewhere on the continumm where we are getting a direct honest answer respecting that we too (sometimes) know stuff.

For example, one thread (rouging of LIM) I had to push back to get through the babblespeak ('leisure route'), and endured the 'we have the data and teams of experts compared to your limited flight experience' but we got there. If the initial responses had been where we ended, that would've been about where I see a good point on the contiuum to be. I am still shaking my head at an earlier “do you even fly AC” comment once used on me – not appropriate.

I wish I was more knowlegeable about marketing and communications for social media to offer more, but I do see that some companies are handling it better than AC. I see AC still experimenting on how to get it right. As a scientist I know even failed experiments are worthwhile, we learn, though there are risks one can get burned. Give a operationally knowlegeable person some basic/advanced training to avoid getting burned seems common sense. Not either / or, somewherein the middle.
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Old Jun 30, 15, 1:21 pm
  #1566  
 
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Originally Posted by KenHamer View Post
Oddly the main complaint here seems to be that too many participants were too "straight, blunt & honest".
It shouldn't be that difficult, we just need two threads:
  1. People who want blunt answers (hosted by Andrew & Ben)
  2. People who want gentle fluff (hosted by Air Canada Altitude)
Everyone is only allowed to participate in one thread or the other, not both. As long as no one goes into the wrong room, that seems foolproof

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Old Jun 30, 15, 1:28 pm
  #1567  
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Originally Posted by bingocallerb22 View Post
Of course Sean it is OK we have different perspectives.

Again, even in this, it is not the either / or you seem to suggest. I see a continuum between both extremes – free flowing in-your-face push back and overly controlled deceptive babble. Even behind a keyboard anonymously we do exercise control, appropriately. The other extreme, TopTier, where they just broadcast misleading propaganda and never had even the courtesy to answer questions in the threads they started was an abysmal failure. I am looking for somewhere on the continumm where we are getting a direct honest answer respecting that we too (sometimes) know stuff.

For example, one thread (rouging of LIM) I had to push back to get through the babblespeak ('leisure route'), and endured the 'we have the data and teams of experts compared to your limited flight experience' but we got there. If the initial responses had been where we ended, that would've been about where I see a good point on the contiuum to be. I am still shaking my head at an earlier “do you even fly AC” comment once used on me – not appropriate.

I wish I was more knowlegeable about marketing and communications for social media to offer more, but I do see that some companies are handling it better than AC. I see AC still experimenting on how to get it right. As a scientist I know even failed experiments are worthwhile, we learn, though there are risks one can get burned. Give a operationally knowlegeable person some basic/advanced training to avoid getting burned seems common sense. Not either / or, somewherein the middle.
Do you remember this? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23656272-post1001.html

Not babblespeak. I recall you just didn't like what you were hearing, and I felt the back and forth was starting to get pedantic. I have never used 'babblespeak' while my name has been green, and I don't intend to start.

Not sure how many times I have to state this (or even why I bother), but my presence on here is not some sort of experiment to placate our frequent flyers on here, nor is it a conspiracy. You guys make up figuratively less than 0.0000001% of our customer base. I am on here because I believe in it, because I have been active on here for almost 10 years and remember how frustrating mindless speculation can be, and because I believe in respecting the collective knowledge that is shared on here every day by contributing more than mere lipservice - most of you guys 'get it' and understand how things work, but there are times when things do get confusing. I personally feel it's helpful to clear up what I can, not to mentioning offering to lend a hand where and when the system fails.

Just my $0.02. But of course, feel free to continue discussing the value or rationale of my posts.

Last edited by Ben Lipsey; Jul 1, 15 at 4:26 am
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Old Jun 30, 15, 1:29 pm
  #1568  
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@ canopus27

ROTFLMAO. That is just brilliant.

The "argument" segment depicted is EXACTLY what an average day on this forum is like. IMHO.
(and not that I mind....great mental chess some days)

Thank you for sharing
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Old Jun 30, 15, 1:33 pm
  #1569  
 
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Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
Do you remember this? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23656272-post1001.html

Not babblespeak. I recall you just didn't like what you were hearing, and I felt the back and forth was starting to get pedantic.

I have never used 'babblespeak' while my name has been green, and I don't intend to start.
Yes! That is exactly the thread to which I referred and the end does show where we should have optimally started! We got there, but for me it was like pulling teeth. "Leisure route" you reiterated from marketing turned out to be babblespeak.

(Never suggested you Ben spouted a lot of bablespeak, I was referring to the other extreme to make my point. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.)
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Old Jun 30, 15, 1:35 pm
  #1570  
 
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Originally Posted by canopus27 View Post
It shouldn't be that difficult, we just need two threads:
  1. People who want blunt answers (hosted by Andrew & Ben)
  2. People who want gentle fluff (hosted by Air Canada Altitude)
Everyone is only allowed to participate in one thread or the other, not both. As long as no one goes into the wrong room, that seems foolproof

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdoGVgj1MtY&t=50s
Great.

It'll feel like FT zoned posting.

Which thread gets to be zone 1?
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Old Jun 30, 15, 1:48 pm
  #1571  
 
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Well if we are going to segregate......
Acerbic thread - anything from Cloudsbelow and a couple of others..
Entertainment thread - anything from Tedgrrrr....
I love AC...again and again thread.....Hello again

And now that Ben's back, lets get back to our regular programming instead of why he went missing. Welcome back Ben :-)
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Old Jun 30, 15, 2:19 pm
  #1572  
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Originally Posted by bingocallerb22 View Post
Yes! That is exactly the thread to which I referred and the end does show where we should have optimally started! We got there, but for me it was like pulling teeth. "Leisure route" you reiterated from marketing turned out to be babblespeak.

(Never suggested you Ben spouted a lot of bablespeak, I was referring to the other extreme to make my point. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.)
Fair enough, I'll try to continue that detail going forward.
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Old Jun 30, 15, 2:21 pm
  #1573  
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Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
Not sure how many times I have to state this (or even why I bother), but my presence on here is not some sort of experiment to placate our frequent flyers on here, nor is it a conspiracy.
Some of us welcome your explanations and your posts. Even if we don't like what we hear.

Welcome back Ben. Please stay!
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Old Jun 30, 15, 6:03 pm
  #1574  
 
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Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
Do you remember this? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23656272-post1001.htmlYou guys make up literally less than 0.0000001% of our customer base.
WOW. I always wondered what percentage of AC's customer base was on FT but I never thought it would be that small. I always figured something like 100 FTers taking 20 flights each out of the 38,526,000 passengers carried in 2014. My guesstimate comes out at something like 0.005%. Still immaterial in business terms but I've always felt that we were the proverbial canaries in the coal mine.

PS Count me among those that appreciate your presence here.
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Old Jun 30, 15, 6:20 pm
  #1575  
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
Vacation, how dare you!

Welcome back.
Ben L is a rock star!
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