Itzhak Perlman gets enhanced wheelchair assistance...
Apr 2, 2014, 2:40 pm
#46
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A few thoughts here:
1. IIRC there was a bit of a jurisdictional issue at YYZ between the airlines and the GTAA regarding who handles mobility-challenged passengers when. This might be contributing to the situation. (I think there is supposed to be a hand-off point between the airline and GTAA). This may have resulted in the "abandoned" comment if the AC agent took him to that point but there was no GTAA agent there to immediately whisk him onwards. If this was the case, the agent should have told Mr. Perlman that he's taken him as far as he's allowed and a GTAA agent will be along shortly to see him through customs.
2. It does sound as though Perlman was abusing the carry-on luggage limits that AC (and any other airline) puts in place. I fully understand why he'd want to carry on the violin, but that doesn't give him the right to have violin plus plus plus. Yes the airline employee should have helped carry the bag, but how is that person supposed to safely push a guy in a wheelchair and carry his bags too? Checking his luggage would have simplified matters immensely all around.
3. Many companies develop well intentioned health and safety policies that make sense in isolation but result in customer-unfriendly outcomes like "sorry but I'm not allowed to carry your bag".
4. “We had made it very clear to Air Canada when we booked the ticket that Mr. Perlman required assistance to get all the way through customs,”. What did they make clear - that he's in a wheelchair and needs assistance or that he's in a wheelchair, needs assistance will be having more than his allotted amount of carry-on luggage and will require a minimum of two people to shepherd him around and must never be left alone? You can make it clear to Walmart that you want them to provide you a personal shopper, but good luck getting one. It's not part of their business model. Sounds like Perlman expects Lufthansa First class style of ground handling.
5. Given that they know of his disabilities, could the TSO have done more to ease Mr. Perlman's trip through the GTAA - perhaps by arranging to have a volunteer meet him at the jetway (I realize there are issues due to Customs).
Perlman and his promoter are exhibiting a fair degree of DYKWIA here but it does raise legitimate issues about how we handle people with disabilities.
I think this does perhaps speak to a business opportunity for someone to offer "VIP" service at the airport that for a fee gets people through all the hassles. Such a service would be very un-Canadian as we'd all expect it for free.
1. IIRC there was a bit of a jurisdictional issue at YYZ between the airlines and the GTAA regarding who handles mobility-challenged passengers when. This might be contributing to the situation. (I think there is supposed to be a hand-off point between the airline and GTAA). This may have resulted in the "abandoned" comment if the AC agent took him to that point but there was no GTAA agent there to immediately whisk him onwards. If this was the case, the agent should have told Mr. Perlman that he's taken him as far as he's allowed and a GTAA agent will be along shortly to see him through customs.
2. It does sound as though Perlman was abusing the carry-on luggage limits that AC (and any other airline) puts in place. I fully understand why he'd want to carry on the violin, but that doesn't give him the right to have violin plus plus plus. Yes the airline employee should have helped carry the bag, but how is that person supposed to safely push a guy in a wheelchair and carry his bags too? Checking his luggage would have simplified matters immensely all around.
3. Many companies develop well intentioned health and safety policies that make sense in isolation but result in customer-unfriendly outcomes like "sorry but I'm not allowed to carry your bag".
4. “We had made it very clear to Air Canada when we booked the ticket that Mr. Perlman required assistance to get all the way through customs,”. What did they make clear - that he's in a wheelchair and needs assistance or that he's in a wheelchair, needs assistance will be having more than his allotted amount of carry-on luggage and will require a minimum of two people to shepherd him around and must never be left alone? You can make it clear to Walmart that you want them to provide you a personal shopper, but good luck getting one. It's not part of their business model. Sounds like Perlman expects Lufthansa First class style of ground handling.
5. Given that they know of his disabilities, could the TSO have done more to ease Mr. Perlman's trip through the GTAA - perhaps by arranging to have a volunteer meet him at the jetway (I realize there are issues due to Customs).
Perlman and his promoter are exhibiting a fair degree of DYKWIA here but it does raise legitimate issues about how we handle people with disabilities.
I think this does perhaps speak to a business opportunity for someone to offer "VIP" service at the airport that for a fee gets people through all the hassles. Such a service would be very un-Canadian as we'd all expect it for free.
Last edited by The Lev; Apr 2, 2014 at 3:08 pm
Apr 2, 2014, 2:44 pm
#47
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Please also remember in the entertainment world... Any publicity is good publicity.
I would never even think of going to the media with an airline complaint.
I would never even think of going to the media with an airline complaint.
Apr 2, 2014, 2:46 pm
#48
Join Date: Dec 2009
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A few thoughts here:
IIRC there was a bit of a jurisdictional issue at YYZ between the airlines and the GTAA regarding who handles mobility-challenged passengers when. This might be contributing to the situation. (I think there is supposed to be a hand-off point between the airline and GTAA). This may have resulted in the "abandoned" comment if the AC agent took him to that point but there was no GTAA agent there to immediately whisk him onwards. If this was the case, the agent should have told Mr. Perlman that he's taken him as far as he's allowed and a GTAA agent will be along shortly to see him through customs.
It does sound as though Perlman was abusing the carry-on luggage limits that AC (and any other airline) puts in place. I fully understand why he'd want to carry on the violin, but that doesn't give him the right to have violin plus plus plus. Yes the airline employee should have helped carry the bag, but how is that person supposed to safely push a guy in a wheelchair and carry his bags too? Checking his luggage would have simplified matters immensely all around.
Many companies develop well intentioned health and safety policies that make sense in isolation but result in customer-unfriendly outcomes like "sorry but I'm not allowed to carry your bag".
“We had made it very clear to Air Canada when we booked the ticket that Mr. Perlman required assistance to get all the way through customs,”. What did they make clear - that he's in a wheelchair and needs assistance or that he's in a wheelchair, needs assistance will be having more than his allotted amount of carry-on luggage and will require a minimum of two people to shepherd him around and must never be left alone? You can make it clear to Walmart that you want them to provide you a personal shopper, but good luck getting one. It's not part of their business model. Sounds like Perlman expects Lufthansa First class style of ground handling.
Given that they know of his disabilities, could the TSO have done more to ease Mr. Perlman's trip through the GTAA - perhaps by arranging to have a volunteer meet him at the jetway (I realize there are issues due to Customs).
Perlman and his promoter are exhibiting a fair degree of DYKWIA here but it does raise legitimate issues about how we handle people with disabilities.
I think this does perhaps speak to a business opportunity for someone to offer "VIP" service at the airport that for a fee gets people through all the hassles. Such a service would be very un-Canadian as we'd all expect it for free.
IIRC there was a bit of a jurisdictional issue at YYZ between the airlines and the GTAA regarding who handles mobility-challenged passengers when. This might be contributing to the situation. (I think there is supposed to be a hand-off point between the airline and GTAA). This may have resulted in the "abandoned" comment if the AC agent took him to that point but there was no GTAA agent there to immediately whisk him onwards. If this was the case, the agent should have told Mr. Perlman that he's taken him as far as he's allowed and a GTAA agent will be along shortly to see him through customs.
It does sound as though Perlman was abusing the carry-on luggage limits that AC (and any other airline) puts in place. I fully understand why he'd want to carry on the violin, but that doesn't give him the right to have violin plus plus plus. Yes the airline employee should have helped carry the bag, but how is that person supposed to safely push a guy in a wheelchair and carry his bags too? Checking his luggage would have simplified matters immensely all around.
Many companies develop well intentioned health and safety policies that make sense in isolation but result in customer-unfriendly outcomes like "sorry but I'm not allowed to carry your bag".
“We had made it very clear to Air Canada when we booked the ticket that Mr. Perlman required assistance to get all the way through customs,”. What did they make clear - that he's in a wheelchair and needs assistance or that he's in a wheelchair, needs assistance will be having more than his allotted amount of carry-on luggage and will require a minimum of two people to shepherd him around and must never be left alone? You can make it clear to Walmart that you want them to provide you a personal shopper, but good luck getting one. It's not part of their business model. Sounds like Perlman expects Lufthansa First class style of ground handling.
Given that they know of his disabilities, could the TSO have done more to ease Mr. Perlman's trip through the GTAA - perhaps by arranging to have a volunteer meet him at the jetway (I realize there are issues due to Customs).
Perlman and his promoter are exhibiting a fair degree of DYKWIA here but it does raise legitimate issues about how we handle people with disabilities.
I think this does perhaps speak to a business opportunity for someone to offer "VIP" service at the airport that for a fee gets people through all the hassles. Such a service would be very un-Canadian as we'd all expect it for free.
The don't treat me like your assistant comment could also imply something extra...
Apr 2, 2014, 2:59 pm
#49
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 286
As was mentioned earlier, this could be used to draw attention to an issue others have complained of and gotten nowhere with. Should he have just written to customer service for a "we regret you did not enjoy your experience... here's x% off"-type form letter?
Apr 2, 2014, 3:03 pm
#50
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
...
It does sound as though Perlman was abusing the carry-on luggage limits that AC (and any other airline) puts in place. I fully understand why he'd want to carry on the violin, but that doesn't give him the right to have violin plus plus plus. Yes the airline employee should have helped carry the bag, but how is that person supposed to safely push a guy in a wheelchair and carry his bags too? Checking his luggage would have simplified matters immensely all around.
Many companies develop well intentioned health and safety policies that make sense in isolation but result in customer-unfriendly outcomes like "sorry but I'm not allowed to carry your bag".
“We had made it very clear to Air Canada when we booked the ticket that Mr. Perlman required assistance to get all the way through customs,”. What did they make clear - that he's in a wheelchair and needs assistance or that he's in a wheelchair, needs assistance will be having more than his allotted amount of carry-on luggage and will require a minimum of two people to shepherd him around and must never be left alone? You can make it clear to Walmart that you want them to provide you a personal shopper, but good luck getting one. It's not part of their business model. Sounds like Perlman expects Lufthansa First class style of ground handling.
....
Perlman and his promoter are exhibiting a fair degree of DYKWIA here but it does raise legitimate issues about how we handle people with disabilities.
...
I think this does perhaps speak to a business opportunity for someone to offer "VIP" service at the airport that for a fee gets people through all the hassles. Such a service would be very un-Canadian as we'd all expect it for free.
It does sound as though Perlman was abusing the carry-on luggage limits that AC (and any other airline) puts in place. I fully understand why he'd want to carry on the violin, but that doesn't give him the right to have violin plus plus plus. Yes the airline employee should have helped carry the bag, but how is that person supposed to safely push a guy in a wheelchair and carry his bags too? Checking his luggage would have simplified matters immensely all around.
Many companies develop well intentioned health and safety policies that make sense in isolation but result in customer-unfriendly outcomes like "sorry but I'm not allowed to carry your bag".
“We had made it very clear to Air Canada when we booked the ticket that Mr. Perlman required assistance to get all the way through customs,”. What did they make clear - that he's in a wheelchair and needs assistance or that he's in a wheelchair, needs assistance will be having more than his allotted amount of carry-on luggage and will require a minimum of two people to shepherd him around and must never be left alone? You can make it clear to Walmart that you want them to provide you a personal shopper, but good luck getting one. It's not part of their business model. Sounds like Perlman expects Lufthansa First class style of ground handling.
....
Perlman and his promoter are exhibiting a fair degree of DYKWIA here but it does raise legitimate issues about how we handle people with disabilities.
...
I think this does perhaps speak to a business opportunity for someone to offer "VIP" service at the airport that for a fee gets people through all the hassles. Such a service would be very un-Canadian as we'd all expect it for free.
Airlines do, in fact, have limits on what staff can and cannot do. I have been on VS flights where I have had to help pax put carry on luggage in the overhead bin simply because it 'looked' overweight. In that case, the FA asked me to help the pax, because she wasn't allowed to. She explained the situation and, well, c'est la vie.
However, what I take exception to is this:
“’Look, I’m not your personal assistant, you’re not paying me for this, you’re the one who chose to carry an extra bag with you.”
...if only because this type of snarkiness is something I've come to expect from a certain group of FTers. Its wholly different to the way VS handled their situation.
As for making it a paid service to whisk you through the airport - some airlines do that. VS has 'the guest list', which comes with:
1.Chauffeur driven car to and/or from the airport (any journey within 75 miles of London Gatwick or London Heathrow only)
2.Upper Class check in at London Gatwick or London Heathrow - including baggage tagged as Upper Class.
3.Priority security using our premium security lane at London Gatwick or the Upper Class wing at London Heathrow.
4.Clubhouse access at London Gatwick or London Heathrow, with leisurely boarding starting 50 minutes before flight departure.
Granted, its exorbitantly expensive.
But then again, a lot of airlines already provide a LH first class level of handling for free. I don't think I need to point out the widely varying levels of service that one gets on an Asian carrier vice an EU carrier or US one.
I really don't see a DYKWIA angle to this. His management requested assistance up to customs. One person would have sufficed. It didn't happen. We now know that a cop stepped in and helped him out. One cop. Nor is he an infrequent flyer - in April alone he's going to be playing in Chicago, Baltimore, Azerbaijan and Turkey. The fact that he's only faced this problem in Toronto and with AC in what has been a long career of globe trotting... I think its worth taking note of even if he is a DYKWIA.
Apr 2, 2014, 3:09 pm
#51
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 286
Airlines do, in fact, have limits on what staff can and cannot do. I have been on VS flights where I have had to help pax put carry on luggage in the overhead bin simply because it 'looked' overweight. In that case, the FA asked me to help the pax, because she wasn't allowed to. She explained the situation and, well, c'est la vie.
Apr 2, 2014, 3:09 pm
#52
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
Well, I hope they are; he's playing for a charity concert.
Apr 2, 2014, 3:16 pm
#53
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
I discussed this with the F/A at some length; they're simply told not to do it. She didn't enlist my help per se - she mistook me as being the travel companion of the damsel in distress and asked her if her friend might be able to assist. I'm a sucker for good looking women, so when two of them looked at me...
But we did have a discussion about the weight rule. I pointed out that the limit was normally 10 kgs.Turns out there was some plane accident many years ago in which overhead luggage did some damage ( I don't recall the details). VS and BA apparently both have the same rule, so I m guessing its a UK regulation.
Apr 2, 2014, 3:31 pm
#54
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Casting aspersions on the agent is OK apparently.
Apr 2, 2014, 3:40 pm
#55
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
Quite unlike some of the FTers who're using the claim of 'balance' and the anonymity of FT to make all kinds of assumptions and claims about Perlman's character (he's added DYKWIA to his list in less than a day).
Its all the more amusing given that these insinuations that he is lying are based almost entirely on the fact that he dared to complain publicly.
Apr 2, 2014, 3:43 pm
#56
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Apr 2, 2014, 3:51 pm
#57
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Perlman has made a claim in public without the anonymity of an FT board. If he's lying, he will be caught and he will be brought into disrepute.
Quite unlike some of the FTers who're using the claim of 'balance' and the anonymity of FT to make all kinds of assumptions and claims about Perlman's character (he's added DYKWIA to his list in less than a day).
Its all the more amusing given that these insinuations that he is lying are based almost entirely on the fact that he dared to complain publicly.
Quite unlike some of the FTers who're using the claim of 'balance' and the anonymity of FT to make all kinds of assumptions and claims about Perlman's character (he's added DYKWIA to his list in less than a day).
Its all the more amusing given that these insinuations that he is lying are based almost entirely on the fact that he dared to complain publicly.
For instance, is it part of the agent's role to carry luggage? Or was he doing it out of goodwill? I submit that at this point we just don't know.
90% of the time these stories are not totally black and white.
Apr 2, 2014, 3:58 pm
#58
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: YYZ
Posts: 1,146
Indeed.
We can both agree that you think that its pathetic that I think its pathetic that people go to all kinds of lengths to cast aspersions about other individuals for the sole reason that that individual has complained about the service provided to him by an airline.
If it helps, that comment was not directed solely at you, but at a bunch of posts on this thread and others, where certain posters have adopted a modus operandi that involves discrediting anyone who complains. Its a long-running trend on Aeroplan Flyertalk, and no amount of reasoning or polite disagreement has dissuaded these folk from deliberately trying to undermine a complainants credibility simply because they have the temerity to complain. For reasons only known to those posters, AC is not expected to deliver on its advertised products (in one case, we have posters saying pax should expect poor service from AC, which strikes me as somewhat inconsistent with AC's habit of advertising itself as North America's best airline). Furthermore, they even go to the extent of blaming pax for not doing their homework and realizing in advance that AC will offer poor service. Its incredibly obtuse. But thoroughly entertaining.
Of course, if one is going to cast aspersions and draw self-serving judgments about the character of the complainant on this board, knowing full well that he can't defend himself, then don't be surprised if similar judgments are hurled right back.
We can both agree that you think that its pathetic that I think its pathetic that people go to all kinds of lengths to cast aspersions about other individuals for the sole reason that that individual has complained about the service provided to him by an airline.
If it helps, that comment was not directed solely at you, but at a bunch of posts on this thread and others, where certain posters have adopted a modus operandi that involves discrediting anyone who complains. Its a long-running trend on Aeroplan Flyertalk, and no amount of reasoning or polite disagreement has dissuaded these folk from deliberately trying to undermine a complainants credibility simply because they have the temerity to complain. For reasons only known to those posters, AC is not expected to deliver on its advertised products (in one case, we have posters saying pax should expect poor service from AC, which strikes me as somewhat inconsistent with AC's habit of advertising itself as North America's best airline). Furthermore, they even go to the extent of blaming pax for not doing their homework and realizing in advance that AC will offer poor service. Its incredibly obtuse. But thoroughly entertaining.
Of course, if one is going to cast aspersions and draw self-serving judgments about the character of the complainant on this board, knowing full well that he can't defend himself, then don't be surprised if similar judgments are hurled right back.
The only one I see casting aspersions here is you. A good attitude goes a long way in getting and enabling good customer service. Sometimes a good look in the mirror can do wonders.
Apr 2, 2014, 4:02 pm
#59
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Earlier in the thread you took upon yourself to point out the "miracle" problem with wheelchair passengers. As though that were the meaningful element in this story.
Now you characterize my experience, of waiting outside security and hearing the story of an obviously upset person, as "worthless" because I wasn't physically present?
You have a total of 7 posts, most of them in this thread today. I'll leave it to others to decide what they think of your "contributions"
I've said who I am. Who exactly are you, anyway? I don't think you're a neutral bystander here, somehow, given the above facts.
Apr 2, 2014, 4:08 pm
#60
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 286
Are you suggesting it was Perlman's attitude that caused this? Do you have any evidence of that?