TO Star article Validates!
 

I still believe AC/AP offer the worst FF program on the planet. I have not given AC/AP a penny in three years and laugh at this article...as it skims the surface on how bad the program is for FF's.

The only counter-argument to staying with AC/AP is your flight pattern, and even that is becoming less of a point.

Enjoy!

http://www.thestar.com/business/pers...n_rewards.html

By: Robb Engen Personal Finance, Published on Tue Mar 11 2014

Readers are upset with the way Aeroplan rewards are calculated and the amount of fees and taxes they pay for flight redemptions.
Many have done a price comparison and find the fees almost wipe out the reward. They also wonder why the fees for booking flights through Aeroplan are higher than the same flights booked directly through Air Canada.

Many FF programs charge fuel surcharges - some on every non-US partner.

SQ, LH, TK, BA, CX, QF, NH, KL, EK?

Some (mostly) US programs don't.

Aeroplan isn't the worst program in the world, by far. ANZ AirPoints is draconian in comparison. It's like market fares without the classic redemption option at all

How are you still SE if you haven't given them a penny in 3 years?

ahh yes, my profile - I must change that. thanks, bb

yes, but the story is telling and look at the comments on the star site and you can see that the "average flyer" is not happy with AC/AP...and when you add in things like upgrade% and other FF benefits, it makes no sense to stay with them...especially with other viable options.

I have heard about ANZ and Quantas having equally bad and 'monopolistic' programs.

I'm not aware of any other program that can get you 3 stops on Business flight as easily as Aeroplan. Albeit I collected a ton of bonus amex signup points.

Appreciate the frustration, but a pretty hyperbolic statement, that. There are certainly programs in Europe and in Asia that are far worse (for instance, CSA). And with recent trends in the US I suspect there will be quite some jockeying for even the title "worst in North America"...

I agree that
a) Aeroplan has limited value as a travel awards program for the infrequent traveller (if it takes you years to accumulate enough for 2 economy tickets to Europe or 4 economy tickets to Orlando, you will be very disappointed once you start looking)
b) For frequent travellers, other programs are now often better - based on flying patterns and carrier presence at home airport

However
c) Too much optimization can be hazardous, since the programs seem increasingly all in a leapfrog competition to devalue. Today's better value program may be tomorrow's devaluation leader.
d) In each program, including Aeroplan, there are still pockets of real value if you learn the ins and outs. For instance, I recently redeemed (with IKK) a last minute short-haul economy to the North East US for 15k pts+$167 (vs $1150 same ticket cash), and business class to Hong Kong for 150k+$337 (vs $5640 Z class cash).
e) For SEs where AC is the dominant carrier at their home airport, AP is usually still the most flexible option to avoid crazy routings. If you're booking far ahead, you can try to find low-surcharge carrier availability (without IKK of course) for the long flights, but being able to IKK (even on Y) the short positioning flights to connect to it can be hugely important.

It is true the devaluation is significant. As it happens, I have my email open to my 2006 archive. I see that in November that year I redeemed an IKK J class from Europe for 80k+$220 (today would be 105k+$1071) and a BATCAT J class to India for 75k+$218 (today, with BATCAT no longer available, it would be 105k+$1280). Based on this June's current Z fares, that represents a devaluation from 5-6c/mile to 2-3c/mile. Of course the comparison is not perfect, but it's an indication.

Who cares if there is no seat, no seat and no seat?

Rules are irrelevant. Ease of access to seats is most important. Even if Aeroplan is to change the rule to allow 6 stops but does not negotiate with AC to get more seats for redemption, it's moot if you cannot find the space.

From the above mentioned consumer's perspective, that's where the problem with Aeroplan begins and ends.


Which once again, diminishes the value of the program for the average consumer. The average consumer shouldn't have to learn the ins and outs.

For the infrequent traveller set who are saving up their points for years, I liken Aeroplan to Timeshare vacations - sure you have a week to trade but good luck getting a week at the resort you really want to go to.:(

I do agree there is real value in buying last minute short haul flights with points - but it still works best if you are SE.

Aeroplan is a lot better than a LOT of other programs. It's just whether you know how to use their points. If you don't - your loss.

PreferJ - I don't disagree with you, but it's also a case of reasonable expectations, and a realization that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

I just pretended I was an infrequent traveller who had painfully scrabbled together 100k miles for 4 tickets for a family vacation to Orlando, or 60k for a dream visit to Paris. I chose a random but specific Sat outbound this coming July and a Sun return one week later.

I had no trouble finding a single Classic award ticket (no IKK) to Paris for 60k points + about $600 in fees. Ouch! But versus a cash fare of $1386 that's still a value of 1.3c/mile.

I could only get 3 Classic award tickets on a single Orlando routing for 25k+$178 each, but could supplement with a (nonDistinction) Market Price ticket for 37k+$115. The cash fare is about $1000 each, for an average value of about 3c/mile.

All of this is anecdotal, and for different dates or destinations might not work. Or if paying cash the tourist might take some inconvenient connections to save a few hundred bucks. However, it does not seem that hard to get a cent or more value per mile -- very much in line with what one would expect if you compare e.g. an Aeroplan credit card (1-1.5 miles per $ spent) vs another rewards card (e.g. 1-2% cash back).

I'm not letting AP off the hook here -- they cheerfully let people believe they can dream about how after a few years of collecting points on their once yearly flights plus credit card spend they'll be able to take their whole family to Australia "for free" on points booked on a whim. It's disingenuous and unfair. But mile collectors owe it to themselves to become reasonably well informed and if they're dreaming of easily available redemptions worth 6-7c/mile whenever they feel like it, perhaps they need a bit of a credulity check -- just like those folks in the US who believed banks would of course lend them insane amounts of money and negligible interest to make a guaranteed killing on an always-rising real estate market!

Many people know how to use the points. The problem is you often cannot get seats.

Some people boast about the business class trips they were able to book, with stops. But there are also so many flights where there is 0 seats booked in business class, but there is no award seat available to be booked.

Yes it's my loss. Hey, it's your loss too when you also cannot find seats. You can laugh at yourself when that happens, and face others who tell you you just don't know how to use the points.

ok. let me clarify my statement earlier. i can use my points AND i know how to use my points. it isn't going to be the case for everyone, but i've never had trouble getting seats to anywhere i wanted. most often the "direct" flights are not available but that's not what i want either...
and i always travel during peak season late december/summer.

I've come to the realization that you can't please everybody, and I'm better off the more people that are pissed off about AP in general.

Looking back at older posts in the early 2000s, and what people booked with the then required amount of miles is just amazing. 100K for nice mini-rtws, and only a couple hundred dollars for taxes and fees? :eek:

I also echo other people's thoughts on AP: there are parts that work well, and of course, the dreaded scamcharges. I caught myself just as I was about to ask the AP booking agent for the total cost of the scamcharges - I mean, "taxes and fuel surcharges". :)

+1.

The key to maximizing your rewards (in any loyalty program) is understanding the value of a point, and what it can and cannot get you.

If you can't (or won't) understand that, you are far better off with a card that gets you 2% (or more) cashback.

Asymmetrical information ALWAYS benefits the loyalty provider. And the only way to level the playing field is through education. Like FT :)

i don't remember what the signup bonuses used to be then :D

I think CIBC had Maria from Italy, promoting a wonderful 5K bonus :eek:

The real story is why if you book the same AC flights using US or UA miles, you'll pay half or less for the same flights.

There were none. But back then not only could you get 4 business class tickets anywhere in the system for 150K (and each could be used separately to different destinations), you'd get 7 nights in a suite at a Starwood or Hilton property and a week's luxury car rental!

back when mileage running was lucrative then!

Some quick math.

YVR - LHR : 09/07 (outbound) - 09/17 (return), in Y.

aircanada.com (Tango) - $1050.48 RT
You'll also net 4710 Aeroplan miles (50% on Tango)

aeroplan.com (Classic Flight) - 60,000 miles + $723.41 taxes

That's $327.07 extra for a revenue flight.

However, for the revenue fare you save 60,000 miles + earn 4710 miles = 64,710 miles

For 63,500 miles you get use that for a $500 Air Canada gift card (or Home Depot, Costco etc).

So the Aeroplan reward comes out to -$172.93


This isn't an issue with Aeroplan, but also Airmiles, Aventura, Avion where they charge YQ in addition to their base program currency. Aventura and Avion let you use points for taxes, but only at 1 cent/point. For the big 5 banks, there are straight travel cashback card - TD First class gives a 1.5% (3.0 - 4.5% on purchases through expedia), BMO World Elite has straight 2%.

That BMO card seems too good to be true - sign up with first year free, $300 bonus. Spend that bonus right away and then cancel the card. What's the catch?

I have the Capital One Aspire Travel World Mastercard, also 2% in travel points and an effective annual fee of just $20 thanks to an anniversary points bonus.

With BMO World Elite is basically a more flexible version of the Aspire with 4 lounge passes, but without the annual bonus.

Nothing stopping you from applying and then cancelling, that happens with many cards (TD/CIBC/Amex Aeroplan etc)

Aside from the fact that I'm worried I've already killed my credit rating by getting both CIBC and Amex Aeroplan cards in the last month. :D

I guess I can see just how much I can abuse my credit...

CIBC checks Equifax and Amex checks transunion - that's just one hit per agency

I haven't had any issues with "no seat, no seat and no seat", I typically book 5-6 months in advance and do quite a bit of research on aeroplan and ANA site to ensure business class seats are available for 2. This will be my 3rd rtw booking.

Completely disagree, not defending AE in the slightest but I have no problem in having to do a little homework to maximise my churning miles. Not like it is hard to do anyways.

And to the person worried about their credit rating, I (and many others here) have applied (with my spouse) to about 10 different cards in the past year. Unless you have horrid credit I wouldn't worry about it at all.

And who cares if you get the BMO world elite for the 300$ credit and cancel 6 months later. Exactly what I did, not like any bank cares about you in any way, why should you?

Both AC and AP are mediocre, but far from worst on the planet.

Points are so easily manufactured in Canada, that its not really a frequent flyer programs. Non-flyers can accumulate thousands of points a year at virtually no cost.

All FFPs charge surcharges on award tickets - even AA and DL on some partners. The lone holdouts seem to be LifeMiles and UA.


Its always good however for the media to expose the scam that Air Canada has going by collecting fake taxes and "fuel" surcharges, and expose the issue to the average flyer who dreams of going to Paris once in a lifetime.

You do need a PhD in Aeorplan nowadays to get any decent value out of it - but its out there.



“This has been the case ever since the last period of record fuel prices in 2008,” said Poole.

Except that AC has been charging surcharges on their metal since at least 2006 :o

I've been accumulating points with the idea that I'd use them one day when I'm a bit more broke or find myself with an extended period of time off. I'm a novice user at best though, I try following along with you guys and can't replicate what you do but I can get maybe half way haha. That said I'm not the naïve fool that goes "well I wanna go to CDG and it says it's 65,000 + $800, so I'd better just suck it up and pay". No research? No reading of even the not that fine print? You're gonna get jobbed a bit.

That said, let's say hypothetically either all those users started being a little more FTesque OR they just stopped booking anything with an AC leg to avoid charges. What do you think would happen? Would the availability of seats plummet, while AC seats would remain at whatever level they are or higher, thus kinda forcing you into them?

I know earn and burn is probably a better idea, but I don't really see myself earning for that long either so I'm not lifetime hoarding, so I think hanging on to them for a little while at least won't hurt me too much.

+1

Right now the miles we earn are not bananas, i.e., they are not "going bad" or have an expiry date. In the beginning, no one had expiries on them. Then airlines started adding expiries. Then people with either 5 miles or 5 million miles started panicking that they would lose them and so there might have been a bit of a rush to earn and burn. Then airlines saw the light of day and got rid of the expiries.

Everyone has their own ideas of what they would like to do. Sure, the old days were nice where you could use what you worked hard to earn, to get a ticket on those saved miles. But then fee-creep set in. Now, as we know, the fees added to a miles/points ticket can often be almost the same as buying a Tango or Flex.

I don't see any carrier who charges fees on these tickets to change that policy anytime soon. So we either have to plan way in advance to get the seats plus plan the route to keep these charges to a minimum if zero is not possible.

Never had a problem here.

During the last 5 years I have redeemed 31 AE flights in J for myself, wife and family for trips from YYZ - CNX (Chiang Mai Thailand). Being flexible, taking advantage of EVA airlines no surcharges for 11 of those flights or other star partners with little or no surcharges has done it for me. Every program has its weak points but getting to anywhere in Asia seems to be one of the better highlights of AE.

Cheers

putting miles to Aeroplan from a credit card has to be the worst redemption value.
Oh well some people are just slow to realize the ripoff, and Air Canada loves you for that reason. :D

With a name like "why fly", then definitely using Aeroplan would be something you would not work for you :p

Me and Mrs Penguin are flying to HKG using BR. $70 for two J tickets. My redemption worked out VERY well IMO. You just have to know the rules of the system and work with it. Those who blindly pay huge amounts of surcharges allow the rest of us to buy "so called" "fringe" tickets that have close to no YQ.

Yup, and lets keep it that way :)

Once Air Canada starts charging YQ on all Aeroplan tickets - then the points will truly become useless

That's funny, I purposefully rack the up to redeem TPAC tickets in J/F. Yes, you need to book far in advance, but I'm not sure you can beat the value.

A ticket that usually costs $8,000-$10,000 for 150,000 points plus $1200. If you plan far enough ahead, you can get SQJ, TG/OZF.

Is that 31 segments, one way trips or returns flights? Regardless, a very successful credit card churns.

What about chase ? Who do they check ? do you know ?

100% agree, if you don't want to do homework, go for the other travel programs and enjoy econ seats.