Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet
Jul 18, 2019, 6:44 pm
#2971
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,568
You would think that selling an aircraft that occasionally takes control from the pilot and flies itself into the ground would be worth far more than $8 billion, but the market has spoken.
Jul 18, 2019, 9:13 pm
#2973
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
I would look at it differently. The market has decided that $8 billion is a number it can start with as we all learn more that number can be revised.
Jul 18, 2019, 9:17 pm
#2974
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
We are reading this rather differently. I don't see the word "apology" anywhere in the statement and I don't think Boeing legal would allow that - it would be a de facto acknowledgement that the infallible Boeing did in fact do something wrong. Dennis Muilenberg and Boeing are trying for some belated positive PR to overcome the negative narrative that Boeing is callous and doesn't care about the families and communities of those affected by the two crashes.
...and I definitely am not reading an apology to those indirectly impacted by the groundings into any of this - I do see an acknowledgement that confidence in Boeing has eroded and they need to fix that.
...and I definitely am not reading an apology to those indirectly impacted by the groundings into any of this - I do see an acknowledgement that confidence in Boeing has eroded and they need to fix that.
Some bad things happened and an aircraft we built was involved.
This is all very sad. We are sad, the families are sad the community is sad.
We want to be good citizens so we are going to donate $100 M (over some undefined time period) to charities in the communities that are impacted.
Jul 18, 2019, 9:27 pm
#2975
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: トロント
Programs: IHG Gold
Posts: 4,820
I see some of the US airlines have advised 737' won't be flying till Nov 2nd at least, but nothing from AC on this front
(I have booked an ACV to HUX supposedly on a 737 for 11/9/2019--frankly, I would prefer a vanilla 319 or 320 as they previously have used. )
(I have booked an ACV to HUX supposedly on a 737 for 11/9/2019--frankly, I would prefer a vanilla 319 or 320 as they previously have used. )
Jul 18, 2019, 9:35 pm
#2976
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
He and the father of another victim testified that while ET sent letters and reached out to them, not one family has heard a word from Boeing.
***
I had a short conversation with an AC pilot and I asked how things are going for the AC pilots who were flying the MAX as I had heard that while they are getting paid, it was not full salary as if they were flying. I asked if any could go back to the aircraft they flew before e.g. the Airbus 32x. He said that if they've done the SIM training for the MAX, they can't go back.
If this is the case and since I'm not a pilot, can someone explain if this is true and if so, why?
Jul 19, 2019, 10:56 am
#2979
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
Yesterday, I watched a few short videos by Canadian Paul Njoroge - who lost his wife, 3 young children and his mother-in-law in the ET crash. (He gave testimony to the U.S. House subcommittee on aviation). In one video on Global News, he commented that the announcement for a fund has some serious negatives. He said none of the families will ever see any money as it will disappear within the governments and the NGOs. He also said that the announcement of the fund has caused stress and fear among the families in Ethiopia. None have received a cent of course, but already, they are being harassed as some others believe they have received money and this could cause harm to these families.
He and the father of another victim testified that while ET sent letters and reached out to them, not one family has heard a word from Boeing.
***
I had a short conversation with an AC pilot and I asked how things are going for the AC pilots who were flying the MAX as I had heard that while they are getting paid, it was not full salary as if they were flying. I asked if any could go back to the aircraft they flew before e.g. the Airbus 32x. He said that if they've done the SIM training for the MAX, they can't go back.
If this is the case and since I'm not a pilot, can someone explain if this is true and if so, why?
He and the father of another victim testified that while ET sent letters and reached out to them, not one family has heard a word from Boeing.
***
I had a short conversation with an AC pilot and I asked how things are going for the AC pilots who were flying the MAX as I had heard that while they are getting paid, it was not full salary as if they were flying. I asked if any could go back to the aircraft they flew before e.g. the Airbus 32x. He said that if they've done the SIM training for the MAX, they can't go back.
If this is the case and since I'm not a pilot, can someone explain if this is true and if so, why?
The Boeing announcement is carefully worded to leave the impression it benefiting family while actually honestly saying it is going to NGO that operate in the same community. Skilled PR.
Jul 19, 2019, 2:18 pm
#2980
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 581
Yesterday, I watched a few short videos by Canadian Paul Njoroge - who lost his wife, 3 young children and his mother-in-law in the ET crash. (He gave testimony to the U.S. House subcommittee on aviation). In one video on Global News, he commented that the announcement for a fund has some serious negatives. He said none of the families will ever see any money as it will disappear within the governments and the NGOs. He also said that the announcement of the fund has caused stress and fear among the families in Ethiopia. None have received a cent of course, but already, they are being harassed as some others believe they have received money and this could cause harm to these families.
He and the father of another victim testified that while ET sent letters and reached out to them, not one family has heard a word from Boeing.
***
I had a short conversation with an AC pilot and I asked how things are going for the AC pilots who were flying the MAX as I had heard that while they are getting paid, it was not full salary as if they were flying. I asked if any could go back to the aircraft they flew before e.g. the Airbus 32x. He said that if they've done the SIM training for the MAX, they can't go back.
If this is the case and since I'm not a pilot, can someone explain if this is true and if so, why?
He and the father of another victim testified that while ET sent letters and reached out to them, not one family has heard a word from Boeing.
***
I had a short conversation with an AC pilot and I asked how things are going for the AC pilots who were flying the MAX as I had heard that while they are getting paid, it was not full salary as if they were flying. I asked if any could go back to the aircraft they flew before e.g. the Airbus 32x. He said that if they've done the SIM training for the MAX, they can't go back.
If this is the case and since I'm not a pilot, can someone explain if this is true and if so, why?
Perdiem loss would be the biggest loss, but for a senor Capt, loseing 5-10 hours a month would start to hurt after a while....
Jul 19, 2019, 2:39 pm
#2981
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: YYZ
Programs: CX GO, AC Aeroplan 25K, AMEX PLAT, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium, IHG Spire Amb
Posts: 464
The 737 pilots have been sitting at home getting paid 70hours a month with no per diems. Like the last poster said, the pilots usually earn around 85hours plus per diems during summer time.
For the 737 pilots, the paid summer vacation is a one in a lifetime opportunity, buy I could imagine sitting at home at 70hour pay for over half a year will eventually get boring.
Jul 19, 2019, 4:17 pm
#2982
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,324
1. Money
Due to my new company's compensation structure, I would be very hard-pressed to go without pay for 3 months. If I lost a "large" part of my income for 3 months, I'd REALLY have to cut back on my "extravagant" expenses, like stays at the Marina Bay Sands, and buying 3 J round-trips on AC because of a sale. Certainly not the end of the world, but I'd have to make adjustments. 15 hours at ~$200 (CA) or a wide range, but less than that (FO) is a fair bit of money that will quickly eat into your accustomed quality of life.
2. Scheduling
"You're off until at least November" is very different from "We're paying you, so we expect you to be around for sim training and in case we can get the planes back in the air sooner".
I have no idea what they've been told, but if they're forced to stay around their base, I can see how it would be boring after 2 weeks. If they've actually been told "you're off for 3 months", it opens up other possibilities, but if you have a family, I suspect it's mostly the same boring stuff while the 9-5ers are at work/school.
I'd LOVE a 6 month paid vacation. But only if I know the duration at the beginning. I've had a few fully-paid and partially-paid periods of leave where the end date was unknown. It sucks. And these pilots are only being partially paid.
Jul 19, 2019, 6:06 pm
#2983
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Programs: BA Exec Club - Demoted to Bronze and re-promoted to Silver alongside AC Elite 50K (gold) in 2022
Posts: 393
Or they do other work!! I know it's not the same analogy, but in the BA cabin crew strikes of 8/9 years ago - flight crew volunteered as cabin crew to maximise the number of headcount available.
I know this is not a strike situation and it's an issue not of their making - but coming into work and doing something use is not a bad thing. Eventually the "honey do" list is exhausted and employees would rather do something than nothing. Pay them a bonus for doing it and close the financial gap - I feel for the pilots who may be financially struggling where more money would be welcome!
I know this is not a strike situation and it's an issue not of their making - but coming into work and doing something use is not a bad thing. Eventually the "honey do" list is exhausted and employees would rather do something than nothing. Pay them a bonus for doing it and close the financial gap - I feel for the pilots who may be financially struggling where more money would be welcome!
Jul 19, 2019, 6:23 pm
#2984
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: YOW
Programs: TK*S, SPG Gold
Posts: 714
I have two thoughts on this:
1. Money
Due to my new company's compensation structure, I would be very hard-pressed to go without pay for 3 months. If I lost a "large" part of my income for 3 months, I'd REALLY have to cut back on my "extravagant" expenses, like stays at the Marina Bay Sands, and buying 3 J round-trips on AC because of a sale. Certainly not the end of the world, but I'd have to make adjustments. 15 hours at ~$200 (CA) or a wide range, but less than that (FO) is a fair bit of money that will quickly eat into your accustomed quality of life.
2. Scheduling
"You're off until at least November" is very different from "We're paying you, so we expect you to be around for sim training and in case we can get the planes back in the air sooner".
I have no idea what they've been told, but if they're forced to stay around their base, I can see how it would be boring after 2 weeks. If they've actually been told "you're off for 3 months", it opens up other possibilities, but if you have a family, I suspect it's mostly the same boring stuff while the 9-5ers are at work/school.
I'd LOVE a 6 month paid vacation. But only if I know the duration at the beginning. I've had a few fully-paid and partially-paid periods of leave where the end date was unknown. It sucks. And these pilots are only being partially paid.
1. Money
Due to my new company's compensation structure, I would be very hard-pressed to go without pay for 3 months. If I lost a "large" part of my income for 3 months, I'd REALLY have to cut back on my "extravagant" expenses, like stays at the Marina Bay Sands, and buying 3 J round-trips on AC because of a sale. Certainly not the end of the world, but I'd have to make adjustments. 15 hours at ~$200 (CA) or a wide range, but less than that (FO) is a fair bit of money that will quickly eat into your accustomed quality of life.
2. Scheduling
"You're off until at least November" is very different from "We're paying you, so we expect you to be around for sim training and in case we can get the planes back in the air sooner".
I have no idea what they've been told, but if they're forced to stay around their base, I can see how it would be boring after 2 weeks. If they've actually been told "you're off for 3 months", it opens up other possibilities, but if you have a family, I suspect it's mostly the same boring stuff while the 9-5ers are at work/school.
I'd LOVE a 6 month paid vacation. But only if I know the duration at the beginning. I've had a few fully-paid and partially-paid periods of leave where the end date was unknown. It sucks. And these pilots are only being partially paid.
Jul 24, 2019, 9:56 am
#2985
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Boeing warns of production reduction, complete shut down of MAX if return to service delayed beyond 4th quarter
July 24, 2019, © Leeham News
QUOTES:
"Boeing’s chief executive officer today warned that if the 737 MAX return to service is delayed much beyond the anticipated fourth quarter RTS, reducing production from the current 42/mo or a complete production shut down could happen.
.......
Last week, Boeing said it hopes for RTS in November. Today, Muilenburg characterized the hoped-for return “early in the fourth quarter.”
But he called the recertification processes and global regulatory reviews “dynamic.” There is no guarantee the RTS will happen on the timeline Boeing hopes.
CFO Greg Smith said delivering the produced but stored MAXes will occur over several quarters, without elaborating what this means.
…...
Smith reiterated Muilenburg’s warning that the MAX production lines could shut down entirely if RTS is delayed."
Article https://leehamnews.com/2019/07/24/bo...er/#more-30776
And from the Reuters' article, July 24, 2019
MAX jetliner grounding crisis pushes Boeing to biggest-ever loss
QUOTES:
"Boeing reduced the number of single-aisle aircraft it produces monthly in the Seattle area from 52 to 42 after the second crash in Ethiopia while suspending deliveries of the aircraft to airlines, cutting off a key source of cash and hitting margins.
The lower rate means Boeing has to pay more for parts, which are priced according to the volume Boeing buys. Boeing said it was working toward building 57 of the 737s a month in 2020, and that airplanes produced during the grounding and included within inventory will be delivered over several quarters following return to service.
.........
Global airlines have had to cancel thousands of flights and use spare aircraft to cover routes that were previously flown with the fuel-efficient MAX, eating into their profitability."
Article https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1UJ1G9
July 24, 2019, © Leeham News
QUOTES:
"Boeing’s chief executive officer today warned that if the 737 MAX return to service is delayed much beyond the anticipated fourth quarter RTS, reducing production from the current 42/mo or a complete production shut down could happen.
.......
Last week, Boeing said it hopes for RTS in November. Today, Muilenburg characterized the hoped-for return “early in the fourth quarter.”
But he called the recertification processes and global regulatory reviews “dynamic.” There is no guarantee the RTS will happen on the timeline Boeing hopes.
CFO Greg Smith said delivering the produced but stored MAXes will occur over several quarters, without elaborating what this means.
…...
Smith reiterated Muilenburg’s warning that the MAX production lines could shut down entirely if RTS is delayed."
Article https://leehamnews.com/2019/07/24/bo...er/#more-30776
And from the Reuters' article, July 24, 2019
MAX jetliner grounding crisis pushes Boeing to biggest-ever loss
QUOTES:
"Boeing reduced the number of single-aisle aircraft it produces monthly in the Seattle area from 52 to 42 after the second crash in Ethiopia while suspending deliveries of the aircraft to airlines, cutting off a key source of cash and hitting margins.
The lower rate means Boeing has to pay more for parts, which are priced according to the volume Boeing buys. Boeing said it was working toward building 57 of the 737s a month in 2020, and that airplanes produced during the grounding and included within inventory will be delivered over several quarters following return to service.
.........
Global airlines have had to cancel thousands of flights and use spare aircraft to cover routes that were previously flown with the fuel-efficient MAX, eating into their profitability."
Article https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1UJ1G9