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Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet

Old Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
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Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html

Cabin photos

Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html

Cabin Layout

Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html







- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.

Routes

The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:

YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
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Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet

Old Mar 12, 2019, 10:25 am
  #1846  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
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Originally Posted by skybluesea
of course, if you don’t like what AirCanada is doing at present, plenty of other alternatives that don’t fly this airplane.
Amusingly, we've come full circle to early posts in this thread. Even without any accidents, nobody should be flying this airplane. But hey, great IFE. And row 20 is ok for a couple hours...
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Old Mar 12, 2019, 10:30 am
  #1847  
 
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I’m booked on a Max this weekend. I’m not worried about it.

If anything, the AC pilot and/or flight attendant unions will be the ones that force AC to ground the planes before the investigations are completed.

Having said that, I’m certain AC and their unions are working closely together on this one.

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Old Mar 12, 2019, 10:36 am
  #1848  
 
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I'd like to know why Minister Garneau is so vociferously defending the MAX in light of so many other countries grounding it? Yet more corporate lobbying? From Boeing or AC and WS? Quiet frankly, given how Boeing drove Bombardier into a situation where they had to give up the C-Series, the government of Canada shouldn't be doing them any favours.
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Old Mar 12, 2019, 10:58 am
  #1849  
 
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Originally Posted by Resurrection
I'd like to know why Minister Garneau is so vociferously defending the MAX in light of so many other countries grounding it? Yet more corporate lobbying? From Boeing or AC and WS? Quiet frankly, given how Boeing drove Bombardier into a situation where they had to give up the C-Series, the government of Canada shouldn't be doing them any favours.
Just because a group of people or organizations makes a decision, doesn’t mean it is the right course of action. The FAA is a trusted organization, and I will let them complete their investigation.

Regarding Garneau, last I checked, he was a former astronaut. These are people that tend not to panic when faced with a crisis. Let the investigators finish their investigation. If you are worried about flying on the plane, don’t fly on it.
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Old Mar 12, 2019, 11:00 am
  #1850  
 
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Minister Garneau and the FAA .

US regulatory capture I can see. How they got to Garneau, I have no idea.
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Old Mar 12, 2019, 11:06 am
  #1851  
 
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Originally Posted by AC7E7


Just because a group of people or organizations makes a decision, doesn’t mean it is the right course of action. The FAA is a trusted organization, and I will let them complete their investigation.

Regarding Garneau, last I checked, he was a former astronaut. These are people that tend not to panic when faced with a crisis. Let the investigators finish their investigation. If you are worried about flying on the plane, don’t fly on it.
Garneau's background as an astronaut has zero relevance to his decision not to suspend the airplane. His primary role is as a Minister in a federal government, and as such is forced to consider political as well as practical solutions.

It may be telling in hindsight that Garneau opted to hold the line while as-respected civil aviation authorities chose the opposite course of action. Garneau stated in effect, we don't know any details yet, so there's no reason to stop flying. The agencies quoted in the following article: https://www.businessinsider.com/ethi...-3#australia-8 stated in effect, we don't know any details yet, so we're ceasing flying or even allowing them to pass overhead.

Time will tell who's "correct", but I don't believe we can attach a notion of "right vs wrong" to these decisions - for or against.
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Old Mar 12, 2019, 11:15 am
  #1852  
5mm
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Basically, if Canada is going to ban the max, it will have to be today. If not, any future max groundings in Canada will make the government look like fools.

Last edited by tcook052; Mar 12, 2019 at 11:21 am Reason: political commentary
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Old Mar 12, 2019, 11:16 am
  #1853  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Originally Posted by chebert999
SWA just decided to let passengers change their flight for free if they are worried on flying the MAX but not grounding them (yet). Maybe AC should do the same. It would be a good PR move.
No such luck in Canada. AC and WJ refuse to waive their change fee despite the tragedy and ripple effect of worried passengers. We want our ancillary fees, not a dime less.
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Old Mar 12, 2019, 11:19 am
  #1854  
 
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Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer
Garneau's background as an astronaut has zero relevance to his decision not to suspend the airplane. His primary role is as a Minister in a federal government, and as such is forced to consider political as well as practical solutions.

It may be telling in hindsight that Garneau opted to hold the line while as-respected civil aviation authorities chose the opposite course of action. Garneau stated in effect, we don't know any details yet, so there's no reason to stop flying. The agencies quoted in the following article: https://www.businessinsider.com/ethi...-3#australia-8 stated in effect, we don't know any details yet, so we're ceasing flying or even allowing them to pass overhead.

Time will tell who's "correct", but I don't believe we can attach a notion of "right vs wrong" to these decisions - for or against.
Garneau is very much focusing on the politics, and the fallout that would result from a ban on the airplane. This isn't an "astronaut" decision at all - yes he is a former astronaut, but I think we have to remove his career history from these discussions. He's not flying or maintaining those planes, and if he's not getting on one, he's not taking the risk beyond political fallout.
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Old Mar 12, 2019, 11:23 am
  #1855  
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Originally Posted by AC7E7
I’m booked on a Max this weekend. I’m not worried about it.

If anything, the AC pilot and/or flight attendant unions will be the ones that force AC to ground the planes before the investigations are completed.

Having said that, I’m certain AC and their unions are working closely together on this one.

Pilot union has expressed concerns.
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Old Mar 12, 2019, 11:25 am
  #1856  
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Originally Posted by Resurrection
I'd like to know why Minister Garneau is so vociferously defending the MAX in light of so many other countries grounding it? Yet more corporate lobbying? From Boeing or AC and WS? Quiet frankly, given how Boeing drove Bombardier into a situation where they had to give up the C-Series, the government of Canada shouldn't be doing them any favours.
He is trying to support AC and WS, not Boeing. I am tempted to write him a letter, on official letterhead and mentioning my credentials. Does he receive e-mail?
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Old Mar 12, 2019, 11:29 am
  #1857  
 
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Garneau's decision to not ban Max 8 is to protect and minimize havoc on AC and WJ. There are other factors playing into his decision beyond passenger safety.
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Old Mar 12, 2019, 11:30 am
  #1858  
 
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All members of parliament will respond to your email. Expect a polite but condescending letter in about a month.

[email protected]
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Old Mar 12, 2019, 11:30 am
  #1859  
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Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer
It may be telling in hindsight that Garneau opted to hold the line while as-respected civil aviation authorities chose the opposite course of action. Garneau stated in effect, we don't know any details yet, so there's no reason to stop flying. The agencies quoted in the following article: https://www.businessinsider.com/ethi...-3#australia-8 stated in effect, we don't know any details yet, so we're ceasing flying or even allowing them to pass overhead.
It is the "we are not sure itbi s safe, so let us assume it's not," vs. "until we know for sure it is unsafe, we'll assume it is." So-called principle of precaution has been much more popular in Europe than in North America. This said, for instance in the submicron particles emitted by diesel engines, they have been bitten but the latter attitude more than us.But also, European countries have largely stayed away from the Max. Except for Ryanair, but who will cry for Ryanair. Yes, AC will hate Garneau if he pushes them in a corner.
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Old Mar 12, 2019, 11:54 am
  #1860  
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Originally Posted by AC7E7
The FAA is a trusted organization, and I will let them complete their investigation.
I think many people are wondering whether the FAA should be trusted or whether it has been "captured" by the companies it is meant to regulate. A couple of data points for your consideration:
  • The FAA was aware of the MCAS but in order to help Boeing maintain its same type rating for the MAX the FAA did not require Boeing to disclose the MCAS, the reason for it or provide additional training or documentation to pilots. In contrast, Brazil did require it in order to get certified in that country.
  • The FAA is mandating changes to the MAX but those required changes don't come into force until April. In effect the FAA has already decided that there is a significant safety issue with the aircraft but thinks it's OK for them to keep flying until the manufacturer is ready with their "fix" in April. I will leave it to you to consider whether this delayed implementation of a mandatory change is being done in the interest of passenger safety or to maximize convenience for the manufacturer and operators of the aircraft.
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