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Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet

Old Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html

Cabin photos

Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html

Cabin Layout

Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html







- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.

Routes

The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:

YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
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Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet

Old Mar 10, 2019, 8:16 pm
  #1681  
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Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer
Is this a question or a statement? Please use full sentences so that I may answer in the best way I can.

There. Fixed it for you.. Now you can go back and read my post again
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Old Mar 10, 2019, 8:30 pm
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Originally Posted by 24left
There. Fixed it for you.. Now you can go back and read my post again
That's more clear, thanks. Your comment about the "avoid all mainstream media" did prompt my caution against doing just that, yes. I think it's a broad condemnation of whatever outlets fall into that category, and presupposes that excellent journalists are incapable of presenting sound information at a level easily comprehended by non aviation experts. The remainder of my post does not relate to you, but I didn't consider Ken Hamer's specific comment about CNN or its contributors when writing my post.

Bottom line: digest whatever information we can, from whatever source is best (pprune is NOT among the list of good sources) and try to seek the journalistic equivalent of a second or third opinion on matters not fully understood, such as possible causes surrounding plane crashes.
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Old Mar 10, 2019, 9:00 pm
  #1683  
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well airlines around the world are grounding the MAX planes I wonder what AC will do?
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Old Mar 10, 2019, 9:10 pm
  #1684  
 
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China fired the first shot/grounding

​​​​​​​China to ground 737MAX fleet - Wild About Travel
https://wildabouttravel.boardingarea...622.1534905339
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Old Mar 10, 2019, 9:21 pm
  #1685  
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Coming back to the thread main point, it's getting clearer than AC's choice of going with the lemon may not have been wise. Penny wise, pound foolish?
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Old Mar 10, 2019, 9:29 pm
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Originally Posted by Stranger
Coming back to the thread main point, it's getting clearer than AC's choice of going with the lemon may not have been wise. Penny wise, pound foolish?
I think there was broad consensus that ACs decision to go with the MAX was penny wise, pound foolish from the start, no? Thats essentially what this whole thread is about
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Old Mar 10, 2019, 9:43 pm
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I would suggest that people here that are saying that a 7M8 is safer than x (driving) and therefore it is foolish to avoid it are kind of missing the point. The question is: is the 7M8 less safe than the alternative aircraft one could choose? Is it less safe than a 319? If the answer is yes (due to evidence not suspicion) then it is reasonable to choose other aircraft. Who cares if it is safer than driving, texting and walking, or going over Niagra falls in a barrel. I also think it is rational to take an action based on suspicion or inadequate evidence too. As a flyer if I think it is possible the 7M8 is less safe due to design problem than a 319 why would I not avoid it? Why do I have to wait for the FAA to make a determination? If the cost of avoidance is zero it is rational and defensible to not fly the 7M8 even if the probability of a problem is less than winning the lottery so long as that probability is greater or likely greater than the alternative.
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Old Mar 10, 2019, 9:46 pm
  #1688  
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AC FT is awesome. So what's the score now? 1 for AC keeps the planes and no idea what the opposition count is.

But this is great and also comments on mainstream media and other points some of us have mentioned:

Originally Posted by FFMilesJunkie
Sadly, perception is reality these days. We are a relatively small group of aviation "nerds" who follow the industry closely and look at the reaction here. This crash happened on a Sunday in Africa so the average American never saw the news. Just wait until tomorrow when the Fox and Friends/Today Show/Good Morning America do what they do best: If it bleeds, it leads. Sunday morning probably 95+% of average Americans would think you were speaking a different language if you said 737 Max 8. By tomorrow morning everyone will be calling American, Southwest, etc and asking if their next flight is on a Max 8. This has to be FREAK OUT time at Boeing and the airlines who fly the Max 8. The media will ride this story and force the airlines/FAA to make some really hard decisions, and I fear unfortunately many of those decisions will be based on public opinion and not facts.

I will admit that I'm hesitant to fly on a Max 8 right now and I've been OK flying on a B-17 flying fortress held together with duct tape!
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30871341-post500.html
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Old Mar 11, 2019, 12:34 am
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Last edited by skybluesea; Dec 31, 2020 at 10:56 am
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Old Mar 11, 2019, 1:53 am
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Thus far 102 737-MAX (out of a reported 350 delivered) are currently grounded by regulators or voluntarily.

96 in China (list from @juliuswong on airliners.net), 4 in Ethiopia, and 2 in Grand Cayman.

100% of the 737maxes in each of the following fleets:
Ethiopian - 4
Grand Cayman - 2
Joy Air- 1
Air China- 15
Fuzhou Airlines- 2
China Southern- 24
China Eastern- 3
Kunming- 2
Lucky Air- 3
Hainan Airlines- 11
Okay Airways- 2
Shandong Airlines- 7
Shanghai Airlines- 11
Shenzhen Airlines- 5
Xiamen Airlines- 10

Air Canada is not on the list yet, but you won't find me on one. While airline travel is low risk, I'll take an old 767 or Airbus over a 737 max.. On airliners.net someone calculated that the 737NG has 2000x less fatalities per thousand takeoffs than the 737MAX.
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Last edited by expert7700; Mar 11, 2019 at 2:01 am
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Old Mar 11, 2019, 2:59 am
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Last edited by skybluesea; Dec 31, 2020 at 10:55 am
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Old Mar 11, 2019, 4:43 am
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Originally Posted by expert7700

Air Canada is not on the list yet, but you won't find me on one. While airline travel is low risk, I'll take an old 767 or Airbus over a 737 max.. On airliners.net someone calculated that the 737NG has 2000x less fatalities per thousand takeoffs than the 737MAX.
I'd bet Las Vegas bookies would have them on the list by 5pm EST today.

It will make it easier for those who us who choose not to fly them going forward to not suffer the abuse of others on this thread.
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Old Mar 11, 2019, 5:01 am
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Originally Posted by InTheAirGuy
I'd bet Las Vegas bookies would have them on the list by 5pm EST today.

It will make it easier for those who us who choose not to fly them going forward to not suffer the abuse of others on this thread.
Ill take that bet. If AC joins today, how will they be able to justify using the aircraft yesterday???
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Old Mar 11, 2019, 5:22 am
  #1694  
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Originally Posted by yyz_atc_qq

Ill take that bet. If AC joins today, how will they be able to justify using the aircraft yesterday???
Senior management were all off because it was Sunday.
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Old Mar 11, 2019, 6:55 am
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Originally Posted by skybluesea


@ridefar
so when AirCanada does a last minute aircraft swap and you wont likely notice until you actually board the aircraft if your seat has not been reassigned so no pre-notice, and the aircraft parked in a way not evident from the terminal, will you deboard, possibly with checked baggage that would delay everybody else ?
You do raise an interesting question about how people who really don't want to fly on a 737 MAX will react if there is a swap. But, although ridefar will have to speak for him/herself, I think you have poked at the relatively infrequent situation compared to what I suspect ridefar was getting at - the zero cost avoidance. I can take numerous flights YYZ-YVR. Whereas previously I might have taken the 11:00 MAX, maybe now I take the 10:00 flight, or the 12:00 flight - both of which are 321s. There may still be a cost to that decision - perhaps it will become easier to get an upgrade on the MAX versus the 321s if more than a few people adopt this approach.
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