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Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet

Old Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
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Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html

Cabin photos

Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html

Cabin Layout

Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html







- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.

Routes

The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:

YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
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Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet

Old Oct 24, 2019, 9:09 am
  #3361  
 
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Originally Posted by bimmerdriver
I imagine that Boeing still hopes for a 3Q re-certification ... perhaps it was re-certified months ago and someone just forgot to call them

Whether or not their hopes will turn into reality, is an entirely different question.
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Old Oct 24, 2019, 9:19 am
  #3362  
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Originally Posted by canopus27
Whether or not their hopes will turn into reality, is an entirely different question.
That 4th quarter BS was just targeting Wall Street. I cannot imagine that he believe it himself. Also today, Reuter had a piece on a topic that he probably had not read yet:

U.S. FAA must restore 'public confidence' in plane certification -inspector general


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1X22H0
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Old Oct 24, 2019, 9:28 am
  #3363  
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Originally Posted by Stranger
That 4th quarter BS was just targeting Wall Street. I cannot imagine that he believe it himself. Also today, Reuter had a piece on a topic that he probably had not read yet:

U.S. FAA must restore 'public confidence' in plane certification -inspector general


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1X22H0
@Stranger
I posted this just above yesterday afternoon when Reuters got the scoop on it (post 3375)
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Old Oct 24, 2019, 6:10 pm
  #3364  
 
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Boeing 737 MAX Dry Runs Underway
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Old Oct 24, 2019, 6:47 pm
  #3365  
 
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I wonder what the anticipated timeframe is for these dry runs mentioned by bimmerdriver above; has Boeing announced a target date for full recertification?
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Last edited by tcook052; Oct 24, 2019 at 7:33 pm Reason: unhelpful
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Old Oct 25, 2019, 11:42 am
  #3366  
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http://knkt.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_a...l%20Report.pdf







Plus


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Old Oct 25, 2019, 12:13 pm
  #3367  
 
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C-FSNQ
Is flying from YVR-YUL at the moment.
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Old Oct 25, 2019, 2:38 pm
  #3368  
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Boeing Statement On Lion Air Flight 610 Investigation Final Report - Oct 25, 2019

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-10...n-Final-Report


QUOTE:

"Over the past several months Boeing has been making changes to the 737 MAX. Most significantly, Boeing has redesigned the way Angle of Attack (AoA) sensors work with a feature of the flight control software known as Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS). Going forward, MCAS will compare information from both AoA sensors before activating, adding a new layer of protection.

In addition, MCAS will now only turn on if both AoA sensors agree, will only activate once in response to erroneous AOA, and will always be subject to a maximum limit that can be overridden with the control column.

These software changes will prevent the flight control conditions that occurred in this accident from ever happening again.

In addition, Boeing is updating crew manuals and pilot training, designed to ensure every pilot has all of the information they need to fly the 737 MAX safely."

......
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Old Oct 25, 2019, 3:44 pm
  #3369  
 
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Originally Posted by WildcatYXU
You do realize that you just described the behaviour of every large corporation of the world?

Boeing is not going anywhere and the 737MAX will fly again. It remains to be seen when. But it will fly. There is no replacement for it.
True but Boeing is NOT in the business of making money, it's in the business of FLYING people around safely! Selling an app and screwing a customer may just take your cash away, but designing an unsafe plane JUST to make more money KILLS your family, wife, daughter! That's NOT acceptable, AND will end-up costing the organization BILLIONS MORE if not bankruptcy, costing shareholders even more pain! So, it's a loss-loss-loss proposition!

Originally Posted by WildcatYXU
Well, that was what I meant at the first place. The A320N family is sold out for the next 10 years, the A220 is only covering the low end of the product range and the production rate is low. To get the B737 certified again and back into the air is essential. We don't know yet the scope of the job that lies ahead. That's why I wrote that it remains to be seen when will the 737 fly again. That said, if the affair really ends with certifying the aircraft with a new version of MCAS without at least partially addressing the underlying problems, I'll join the ranks of MAX avoiders. But I have a strange feeling that the changes will go beyond MCAS redesign.

Just to repeat my position on the whole affair: I'm not a B737 fan and I still think AC made a mistake ordering it. Just as I thought 6 years ago as it can be seen in my posts in this topic from that time*. But I would never expect problems on this scale.

*I was wrong as far as the PW engine PIP is concerned. Not only there is no PIP yet as it was promised 6 years ago, but PW still couldn't make the PW1100 working as promised.
737 Max should NOT FLY AGAIN, PERIOD! Not because we don't need them, or that there's backlog in A320, or industry needs it, etc... because it is FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED, aerodynamically unstable, and unsafe!

The easiest way to explain it, is to say you put massive monster truck tires on your car, and your steering if turned all the way would cause tires to rub against your suspension, causing a crash! So then the "clever" engineers (sales reps demand) would design your steering wheel software to COUNTER when you go beyond the steer point that hits the suspension... it would STEER BACK to the other direction not to hit the suspension, this should work fine if you're driving in your shopping mall... BUT what happens when someone cuts you off at 100Mph in the middle of a highway and you have to steer quickly to avoid an accident, MASSIVE CRASH!

The low HEIGHT of the 737 and 1950s aerodynamics were NOT suitable for such a large engine, PERIOD! It needed a RE-DESIGN, and STILL DOES need a re-design, this freaking BS bandaid software solution could never ever fix the aerodynamic inefficiency and flawed design of placement of the engine. Boeing must start a new re-design of the 737 frame, YESTERDAY! Yeah, it will cause delays, may have to make 737 NG for a bit longer, industry won't be happy, may lose Southwest, etc... BUT that's the only long-term solution. ALL you guys think is bottom line, convenience, airline plans, available options, etc... as a newly dad, I would NEVER EVER risk my newborn life in a plane that has fundamental design flaws, nor should you, FAA, the public or any airline!

Exactly! A lot of folks here care about AC capacity, their bottom line, the industry worries, or whatever! I DO NOT CARE... let em build 737 NG that consumes a bit more fuel BUT SAFE! I would pay $10 more in fuel cost flying it rather than putting my baby's life at risk!

Originally Posted by transportprof
And if airlines face constraints on 150-200 seat aircraft, they can adapt their schedules to fly bigger birds less frequently. JL and NH used to fly high density 747s on flights of < 2 hours because of airport capacity constraints. I would be happy to fly AC 777s and 787s on less frequent schedules with the same capacity between YVR and points east.
Agreed! We all pretend it's the end of the world if Boeing can't produce unsafe 737 Max, with cramped seating for AC! Nope! Life would go on, maybe their bottom line suffers but I don't give a damn!

Originally Posted by 24left
Boeing Statement On Lion Air Flight 610 Investigation Final Report - Oct 25, 2019

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-10...n-Final-Report


QUOTE:

"Over the past several months Boeing has been making changes to the 737 MAX. Most significantly, Boeing has redesigned the way Angle of Attack (AoA) sensors work with a feature of the flight control software known as Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS). Going forward, MCAS will compare information from both AoA sensors before activating, adding a new layer of protection.

In addition, MCAS will now only turn on if both AoA sensors agree, will only activate once in response to erroneous AOA, and will always be subject to a maximum limit that can be overridden with the control column.

These software changes will prevent the flight control conditions that occurred in this accident from ever happening again.

In addition, Boeing is updating crew manuals and pilot training, designed to ensure every pilot has all of the information they need to fly the 737 MAX safely."

......
Lipstick on a pig! IF you imbeciles took a year, RE-DESIGNED the 737 frame to FIT the new engines, without aerodynamic instabilities caused by engine move, NONE of these Software compromises were necessary! This is pathetic, I won't ever fly 737 again, AND if AC doesn't pick a whole bunch of A320/A220 as alternative, have to completely switch away from AC at least for any US/International flights!

Last edited by tcook052; Oct 25, 2019 at 8:59 pm Reason: merge multiple separate posts
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Old Oct 25, 2019, 4:32 pm
  #3370  
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deleted....thinking about it.
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Old Oct 25, 2019, 5:52 pm
  #3371  
 
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Originally Posted by alexbc
True but Boeing is NOT in the business of making money, it's in the business of FLYING people around safely!
This is where you're labouring under a misapprehension. Every company is in business to make money. Their sole purpose is to create wealth for their shareholders. They do it many different ways, from selling coffee to making airplanes, but at the end of the day they exist to make money by selling a product or service that others will pay for.

The only enterprises that don't make money are charities or the government, by definition business have to make money or they can't carry on their business.
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Old Oct 25, 2019, 6:13 pm
  #3372  
 
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Originally Posted by Jagboi
This is where you're labouring under a misapprehension. Every company is in business to make money. Their sole purpose is to create wealth for their shareholders. They do it many different ways, from selling coffee to making airplanes, but at the end of the day they exist to make money by selling a product or service that others will pay for.

The only enterprises that don't make money are charities or the government, by definition business have to make money or they can't carry on their business.
Agreed. At first I thought Alexbc was trying to be ironic. But reading! all! the! other! posts! by! him! or her! I guess not. Not sure how anybody could be that wrong about what business Boeing is in. Making money. It is their fiduciary duty. Their legal obligation. If they could do that by selling planes that cause people to get addicted to opioids they would. Because the penalty is less than the profit.
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Old Oct 25, 2019, 6:44 pm
  #3373  
 
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Originally Posted by alexbc
737 Max should NOT FLY AGAIN, PERIOD! Not because we don't need them, or that there's backlog in A320, or industry needs it, etc... because it is FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED, aerodynamically unstable, and unsafe!

The easiest way to explain it, is to say you put massive monster truck tires on your car, and your steering if turned all the way would cause tires to rub against your suspension, causing a crash! So then the "clever" engineers (sales reps demand) would design your steering wheel software to COUNTER when you go beyond the steer point that hits the suspension... it would STEER BACK to the other direction not to hit the suspension, this should work fine if you're driving in your shopping mall... BUT what happens when someone cuts you off at 100Mph in the middle of a highway and you have to steer quickly to avoid an accident, MASSIVE CRASH!

The low HEIGHT of the 737 and 1950s aerodynamics were NOT suitable for such a large engine, PERIOD! It needed a RE-DESIGN, and STILL DOES need a re-design, this freaking BS bandaid software solution could never ever fix the aerodynamic inefficiency and flawed design of placement of the engine. Boeing must start a new re-design of the 737 frame, YESTERDAY! Yeah, it will cause delays, may have to make 737 NG for a bit longer, industry won't be happy, may lose Southwest, etc... BUT that's the only long-term solution. ALL you guys think is bottom line, convenience, airline plans, available options, etc... as a newly dad, I would NEVER EVER risk my newborn life in a plane that has fundamental design flaws, nor should you, FAA, the public or any airline!
You are wrong in one thing - the 1950's aerodynamics. Yes, the nose looks exactly like the B367 from 1954, however, today's 737 has a lot of new things. For example a wing that's newer than the A320 wing.
BTW, you should read the whole topic. I wasn't happy with AC's decision purchasing the 737 in 2013, I'm not happy with it now. But the MAX will fly again. And just for the record, I couldn't give a darn about Boeing's bottom line.
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Old Oct 26, 2019, 2:02 am
  #3374  
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Originally Posted by Jagboi
This is where you're labouring under a misapprehension. Every company is in business to make money. Their sole purpose is to create wealth for their shareholders. They do it many different ways, from selling coffee to making airplanes, but at the end of the day they exist to make money by selling a product or service that others will pay for.
True. And in the long run we'll all be dead. But coming back to Boeing, in the process of making money, they are killing themselves. But surely because it's for a good cause, i.e. making money, it's absolutely fine...
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Old Oct 26, 2019, 2:57 am
  #3375  
 
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Originally Posted by Jagboi
This is where you're labouring under a misapprehension. Every company is in business to make money. Their sole purpose is to create wealth for their shareholders. They do it many different ways, from selling coffee to making airplanes, but at the end of the day they exist to make money by selling a product or service that others will pay for.

The only enterprises that don't make money are charities or the government, by definition business have to make money or they can't carry on their business.
You didnt read the entire comment. I said not only making money but is to move ppl around safely as if they dont they wouldnt make any money and ruin their shareholders as its actually happening now.
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