Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet
#3361
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SEMM / HH Diamond
Posts: 3,140
Whether or not their hopes will turn into reality, is an entirely different question.
#3362
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,741
U.S. FAA must restore 'public confidence' in plane certification -inspector general
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1X22H0
#3363
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
That 4th quarter BS was just targeting Wall Street. I cannot imagine that he believe it himself. Also today, Reuter had a piece on a topic that he probably had not read yet:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1X22H0
U.S. FAA must restore 'public confidence' in plane certification -inspector general
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1X22H0
I posted this just above yesterday afternoon when Reuters got the scoop on it (post 3375)
#3364
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: YVR
Programs: AC E50K, NEXUS
Posts: 645
#3365
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
I wonder what the anticipated timeframe is for these dry runs mentioned by bimmerdriver above; has Boeing announced a target date for full recertification?
Last edited by tcook052; Oct 24, 2019 at 7:33 pm Reason: unhelpful
#3366
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
#3368
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Boeing Statement On Lion Air Flight 610 Investigation Final Report - Oct 25, 2019
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-10...n-Final-Report
QUOTE:
"Over the past several months Boeing has been making changes to the 737 MAX. Most significantly, Boeing has redesigned the way Angle of Attack (AoA) sensors work with a feature of the flight control software known as Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS). Going forward, MCAS will compare information from both AoA sensors before activating, adding a new layer of protection.
In addition, MCAS will now only turn on if both AoA sensors agree, will only activate once in response to erroneous AOA, and will always be subject to a maximum limit that can be overridden with the control column.
These software changes will prevent the flight control conditions that occurred in this accident from ever happening again.
In addition, Boeing is updating crew manuals and pilot training, designed to ensure every pilot has all of the information they need to fly the 737 MAX safely."
......
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-10...n-Final-Report
QUOTE:
"Over the past several months Boeing has been making changes to the 737 MAX. Most significantly, Boeing has redesigned the way Angle of Attack (AoA) sensors work with a feature of the flight control software known as Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS). Going forward, MCAS will compare information from both AoA sensors before activating, adding a new layer of protection.
In addition, MCAS will now only turn on if both AoA sensors agree, will only activate once in response to erroneous AOA, and will always be subject to a maximum limit that can be overridden with the control column.
These software changes will prevent the flight control conditions that occurred in this accident from ever happening again.
In addition, Boeing is updating crew manuals and pilot training, designed to ensure every pilot has all of the information they need to fly the 737 MAX safely."
......
#3369
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AC E50K, MM, BA, Delta, PriorityClub Platinum, Marriott Gold.
Posts: 468
Well, that was what I meant at the first place. The A320N family is sold out for the next 10 years, the A220 is only covering the low end of the product range and the production rate is low. To get the B737 certified again and back into the air is essential. We don't know yet the scope of the job that lies ahead. That's why I wrote that it remains to be seen when will the 737 fly again. That said, if the affair really ends with certifying the aircraft with a new version of MCAS without at least partially addressing the underlying problems, I'll join the ranks of MAX avoiders. But I have a strange feeling that the changes will go beyond MCAS redesign.
Just to repeat my position on the whole affair: I'm not a B737 fan and I still think AC made a mistake ordering it. Just as I thought 6 years ago as it can be seen in my posts in this topic from that time*. But I would never expect problems on this scale.
*I was wrong as far as the PW engine PIP is concerned. Not only there is no PIP yet as it was promised 6 years ago, but PW still couldn't make the PW1100 working as promised.
Just to repeat my position on the whole affair: I'm not a B737 fan and I still think AC made a mistake ordering it. Just as I thought 6 years ago as it can be seen in my posts in this topic from that time*. But I would never expect problems on this scale.
*I was wrong as far as the PW engine PIP is concerned. Not only there is no PIP yet as it was promised 6 years ago, but PW still couldn't make the PW1100 working as promised.
The easiest way to explain it, is to say you put massive monster truck tires on your car, and your steering if turned all the way would cause tires to rub against your suspension, causing a crash! So then the "clever" engineers (sales reps demand) would design your steering wheel software to COUNTER when you go beyond the steer point that hits the suspension... it would STEER BACK to the other direction not to hit the suspension, this should work fine if you're driving in your shopping mall... BUT what happens when someone cuts you off at 100Mph in the middle of a highway and you have to steer quickly to avoid an accident, MASSIVE CRASH!
The low HEIGHT of the 737 and 1950s aerodynamics were NOT suitable for such a large engine, PERIOD! It needed a RE-DESIGN, and STILL DOES need a re-design, this freaking BS bandaid software solution could never ever fix the aerodynamic inefficiency and flawed design of placement of the engine. Boeing must start a new re-design of the 737 frame, YESTERDAY! Yeah, it will cause delays, may have to make 737 NG for a bit longer, industry won't be happy, may lose Southwest, etc... BUT that's the only long-term solution. ALL you guys think is bottom line, convenience, airline plans, available options, etc... as a newly dad, I would NEVER EVER risk my newborn life in a plane that has fundamental design flaws, nor should you, FAA, the public or any airline!
Exactly! A lot of folks here care about AC capacity, their bottom line, the industry worries, or whatever! I DO NOT CARE... let em build 737 NG that consumes a bit more fuel BUT SAFE! I would pay $10 more in fuel cost flying it rather than putting my baby's life at risk!
And if airlines face constraints on 150-200 seat aircraft, they can adapt their schedules to fly bigger birds less frequently. JL and NH used to fly high density 747s on flights of < 2 hours because of airport capacity constraints. I would be happy to fly AC 777s and 787s on less frequent schedules with the same capacity between YVR and points east.
Boeing Statement On Lion Air Flight 610 Investigation Final Report - Oct 25, 2019
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-10...n-Final-Report
QUOTE:
"Over the past several months Boeing has been making changes to the 737 MAX. Most significantly, Boeing has redesigned the way Angle of Attack (AoA) sensors work with a feature of the flight control software known as Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS). Going forward, MCAS will compare information from both AoA sensors before activating, adding a new layer of protection.
In addition, MCAS will now only turn on if both AoA sensors agree, will only activate once in response to erroneous AOA, and will always be subject to a maximum limit that can be overridden with the control column.
These software changes will prevent the flight control conditions that occurred in this accident from ever happening again.
In addition, Boeing is updating crew manuals and pilot training, designed to ensure every pilot has all of the information they need to fly the 737 MAX safely."
......
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-10...n-Final-Report
QUOTE:
"Over the past several months Boeing has been making changes to the 737 MAX. Most significantly, Boeing has redesigned the way Angle of Attack (AoA) sensors work with a feature of the flight control software known as Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS). Going forward, MCAS will compare information from both AoA sensors before activating, adding a new layer of protection.
In addition, MCAS will now only turn on if both AoA sensors agree, will only activate once in response to erroneous AOA, and will always be subject to a maximum limit that can be overridden with the control column.
These software changes will prevent the flight control conditions that occurred in this accident from ever happening again.
In addition, Boeing is updating crew manuals and pilot training, designed to ensure every pilot has all of the information they need to fly the 737 MAX safely."
......
Last edited by tcook052; Oct 25, 2019 at 8:59 pm Reason: merge multiple separate posts
#3371
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,734
The only enterprises that don't make money are charities or the government, by definition business have to make money or they can't carry on their business.
#3372
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 3,392
This is where you're labouring under a misapprehension. Every company is in business to make money. Their sole purpose is to create wealth for their shareholders. They do it many different ways, from selling coffee to making airplanes, but at the end of the day they exist to make money by selling a product or service that others will pay for.
The only enterprises that don't make money are charities or the government, by definition business have to make money or they can't carry on their business.
The only enterprises that don't make money are charities or the government, by definition business have to make money or they can't carry on their business.
#3373
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YXU
Programs: AC SE100K, National E/E, HH Diamond, IHG Diamond, MB, Avis P/P
Posts: 958
737 Max should NOT FLY AGAIN, PERIOD! Not because we don't need them, or that there's backlog in A320, or industry needs it, etc... because it is FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED, aerodynamically unstable, and unsafe!
The easiest way to explain it, is to say you put massive monster truck tires on your car, and your steering if turned all the way would cause tires to rub against your suspension, causing a crash! So then the "clever" engineers (sales reps demand) would design your steering wheel software to COUNTER when you go beyond the steer point that hits the suspension... it would STEER BACK to the other direction not to hit the suspension, this should work fine if you're driving in your shopping mall... BUT what happens when someone cuts you off at 100Mph in the middle of a highway and you have to steer quickly to avoid an accident, MASSIVE CRASH!
The low HEIGHT of the 737 and 1950s aerodynamics were NOT suitable for such a large engine, PERIOD! It needed a RE-DESIGN, and STILL DOES need a re-design, this freaking BS bandaid software solution could never ever fix the aerodynamic inefficiency and flawed design of placement of the engine. Boeing must start a new re-design of the 737 frame, YESTERDAY! Yeah, it will cause delays, may have to make 737 NG for a bit longer, industry won't be happy, may lose Southwest, etc... BUT that's the only long-term solution. ALL you guys think is bottom line, convenience, airline plans, available options, etc... as a newly dad, I would NEVER EVER risk my newborn life in a plane that has fundamental design flaws, nor should you, FAA, the public or any airline!
The easiest way to explain it, is to say you put massive monster truck tires on your car, and your steering if turned all the way would cause tires to rub against your suspension, causing a crash! So then the "clever" engineers (sales reps demand) would design your steering wheel software to COUNTER when you go beyond the steer point that hits the suspension... it would STEER BACK to the other direction not to hit the suspension, this should work fine if you're driving in your shopping mall... BUT what happens when someone cuts you off at 100Mph in the middle of a highway and you have to steer quickly to avoid an accident, MASSIVE CRASH!
The low HEIGHT of the 737 and 1950s aerodynamics were NOT suitable for such a large engine, PERIOD! It needed a RE-DESIGN, and STILL DOES need a re-design, this freaking BS bandaid software solution could never ever fix the aerodynamic inefficiency and flawed design of placement of the engine. Boeing must start a new re-design of the 737 frame, YESTERDAY! Yeah, it will cause delays, may have to make 737 NG for a bit longer, industry won't be happy, may lose Southwest, etc... BUT that's the only long-term solution. ALL you guys think is bottom line, convenience, airline plans, available options, etc... as a newly dad, I would NEVER EVER risk my newborn life in a plane that has fundamental design flaws, nor should you, FAA, the public or any airline!
BTW, you should read the whole topic. I wasn't happy with AC's decision purchasing the 737 in 2013, I'm not happy with it now. But the MAX will fly again. And just for the record, I couldn't give a darn about Boeing's bottom line.
#3374
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,741
This is where you're labouring under a misapprehension. Every company is in business to make money. Their sole purpose is to create wealth for their shareholders. They do it many different ways, from selling coffee to making airplanes, but at the end of the day they exist to make money by selling a product or service that others will pay for.
#3375
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AC E50K, MM, BA, Delta, PriorityClub Platinum, Marriott Gold.
Posts: 468
This is where you're labouring under a misapprehension. Every company is in business to make money. Their sole purpose is to create wealth for their shareholders. They do it many different ways, from selling coffee to making airplanes, but at the end of the day they exist to make money by selling a product or service that others will pay for.
The only enterprises that don't make money are charities or the government, by definition business have to make money or they can't carry on their business.
The only enterprises that don't make money are charities or the government, by definition business have to make money or they can't carry on their business.