Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet
Mar 13, 2019, 12:46 pm
#1966
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Programs: AC*SE100K 1MM, Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
Posts: 735
The right decision from an irrational emotionally charged perspective - sure I'll agree to that.
At this point in time, there is no scientific safety based reason to take such a decision. From a scientific and safety perspective there is only one data point about safety of the 7M8 - the Lion Air crash. Until the FDR and CVR data for the ET crash have been processed, there are no additional safety data points to for which to base a decision.
I'm all for safety, but irrational emotion has no place if the definition and implementation of safety. Safety has to be based on cold hard numbers, not the feelings of the hysterical animals scurrying from the sounds of thunder.
At this point in time, there is no scientific safety based reason to take such a decision. From a scientific and safety perspective there is only one data point about safety of the 7M8 - the Lion Air crash. Until the FDR and CVR data for the ET crash have been processed, there are no additional safety data points to for which to base a decision.
I'm all for safety, but irrational emotion has no place if the definition and implementation of safety. Safety has to be based on cold hard numbers, not the feelings of the hysterical animals scurrying from the sounds of thunder.
Mar 13, 2019, 12:51 pm
#1967
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
The above suggests you're actually not all about safety at all.
Mar 13, 2019, 1:07 pm
#1969
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 669
Mar 13, 2019, 1:18 pm
#1971
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
We can add Boeing to the list of apparently spineless, irrational, emotional people who just don't understand aviation safety.
In Consultation with the FAA, NTSB and its Customers, Boeing Supports Action to Temporarily Ground 737 MAX Operations
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-re...ts?item=130404
In Consultation with the FAA, NTSB and its Customers, Boeing Supports Action to Temporarily Ground 737 MAX Operations
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-re...ts?item=130404
March 13, 2019 – Boeing continues to have full confidence in the safety of the 737 MAX. However, after consultation with the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), and aviation authorities and its customers around the world, Boeing has determined -- out of an abundance of caution and in order to reassure the flying public of the aircraft’s safety -- to recommend to the FAA the temporary suspension of operations of the entire global fleet of 371 737 MAX aircraft.
“On behalf of the entire Boeing team, we extend our deepest sympathies to the families and loved ones of those who have lost their lives in these two tragic accidents,” said Dennis Muilenburg, president, CEO, Chairman of The Boeing Company.
“We are supporting this proactive step out of an abundance of caution. Safety is a core value at Boeing for as long as we have been building airplanes; and it always will be. There is no greater priority for our company and our industry. We are doing everything we can to understand the cause of the accidents in partnership with the investigators, deploy safety enhancements and help ensure this does not happen again.”
Boeing makes this recommendation and supports the decision by the FAA.
“On behalf of the entire Boeing team, we extend our deepest sympathies to the families and loved ones of those who have lost their lives in these two tragic accidents,” said Dennis Muilenburg, president, CEO, Chairman of The Boeing Company.
“We are supporting this proactive step out of an abundance of caution. Safety is a core value at Boeing for as long as we have been building airplanes; and it always will be. There is no greater priority for our company and our industry. We are doing everything we can to understand the cause of the accidents in partnership with the investigators, deploy safety enhancements and help ensure this does not happen again.”
Boeing makes this recommendation and supports the decision by the FAA.
Mar 13, 2019, 1:20 pm
#1972
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Body in Downtown YYZ, heart and mind elsewhere
Programs: UA 50K, refugee from AC E50K, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 5,132
Eventually these 7M8 bans will be lifted, but if there's just one more hull loss after that, I suspect it will be the end of the 737 line.
Mar 13, 2019, 1:24 pm
#1973
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 53
Well, to be clear I wasn't referring to him dying! More like having indigestion trying to live with the decision to toss out the (better IMHO) Airbus option in favour of the cheaper Boeing offering. Boeing has done a great deal of damage to the Canadian aerospace industry lately, I see this as karma.
Mar 13, 2019, 1:26 pm
#1974
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Posts: 18,877
Mar 13, 2019, 1:29 pm
#1976
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: YXE
Posts: 3,050
That will be interesting to see; what is the "proper" resolution to this? Clearly, a software upgrade should help. But I think it's challenging that MCAS does what it does based on input from one pitot tube. Can the software be successfully rewritten (by April as per FAA) to take input from multiple systems the way the engineers likely wanted to do in the first place? Or will Boeing do incremental software updates over the next few months / quarters? I wouldn't want to be the chief software guy (gal) at Boeing now - way too much pressure!
Eventually these 7M8 bans will be lifted, but if there's just one more hull loss after that, I suspect it will be the end of the 737 line.
Eventually these 7M8 bans will be lifted, but if there's just one more hull loss after that, I suspect it will be the end of the 737 line.
There's lots of 'relaxed stability' airplanes out there that, if not for computer intervention, wouldn't fly correctly. The E90. The A320. All perfectly fine if the instrumentation is in working order and has been provisioned to adequate levels of fault tolerance.
AC better be looking at what it takes to keep the early A320s airworthy, including applying for whatever exemptions may be required from FAA/TC rules that were going to be the cause of their grounding. I don't think the issue disclosed here is just something that can be 'resolved' with purely a software update.
Mar 13, 2019, 1:53 pm
#1978
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE (*A Gold), Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Amex Platinum / AP Reserve, NEXUS, Global Entry
Posts: 5,691
Agreed -- I'd be surprised if these planes are flying again any time soon.
Mar 13, 2019, 2:03 pm
#1979
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,156
The nose area and cockpit layout of the Caravelle were taken directly from the Comet.
Mar 13, 2019, 2:05 pm
#1980
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
Despite having an opposing view to yourself (and, it seems, most everyone else in the world) on this matter, I've enjoyed reading your posts. This one, however... well, whether it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek or not is a bit of a head-scratcher. Of course Boeing will insist their planes are safe, regardless of whether they agree with the FAA or not. What realistically did we expect them to say? "We cheated / hid stuff / lied during certification and fully expected not to get caught" is as unlikely as "every aviation authority in the world is wrong and we disagree with the groundings."