J class loads lately?
 

As most of you know, Aeroplan claims that the reason why they took away both the V class and the time of booking benefit for SE is because the upgrades are taking away from the number of revenue J seats available for sale. I for one don't believe a single word of that...

Most flights that I've been on are never full in J the last couple months. The latest round being YVR-SFO on Friday which has 5/20 in J with 3 of those being non-rev, SFO-YVR today with 2/16 in J. The loads were so bad today they used an A319 at the last minute instead since there were only ~40 paxs [I counted] on the whole plane. We even got a hot breakfast in Y for the 2 hrs flight. Transborder/domestic flights like these would be perfect to allow SE/E to upgrade from any fare at the gate.

How are the J loads like on your flights lately? I still don't believe for a single moment that the demand for rev J is so high such that they had to make those changes.

They've got to start understanding that the reason why the numbers of paid J passengers are decreasing is because their product sucks for the price that they are charging!

Empress, I agree with you... my last 2 flights YVR-LHR had very few in J...

I took an A320 from LAX-YYC last month in J and there were 5 pax including me.

On my last trip YYZ-GRU there were about 10-12 empty seats in the 767-300ER.....although I sat in the back.

I haven't seen a full J cabin in at least six months, but I have seen quite a few full Y cabins.

yyz-yvr had j available recently, but the yvr-yyz redeye was full in j....go figure

If we take away flights which the J cabin was full because of overbooking in Y, I don't think we'll ever find one flight on a regular basis that's full purely from J being sold out or filled to the max from upgrades on eligible fares.

Looking at those empty J seats while sitting in that super uncomfortable squeaking A319 Y seat on my flight today really got me thinking what the hell is AC talking about upgrades taking away rev J availability.

Every flight I've taken recently (YYZ-MIA) has been full, or almost full, in J.

However, you've said on many occasions that those flights were very light in J the night before?

Maybe the J cabin only exist to accomodate overbooking these days. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

My flights in January for YYZ-YVR and YVR-YYZ was full in J, no idea how full the loads were in Y.

All of my flights from MCO-YYT have lots of J space available...my return on Sunday nights are usually full but only because the give out 6-10 upgrades each week at the gate...I agree with Empress, it's simply not true...and this is the one reason I am so upset over forcing us to spend hundreds of dollars to move to H class...it's nothing but a blatent grab for revenue!!!

On YVR-YYZ flights in Nov, Dec and early Jan the J cabin went out full. On all occasions the last group of upgs were operational due to horrendous overbooking. These were the rare occasions I really felt sorry for the gate agents ... many of whom I witnessed "losing it" with passengers because cash hungry management is obviously overriding their yield management system to overbook the YVR-YYZ cash cow route. I even watched a particularly nasty YVR agent demean an SE/E (couldn't quite tell) for trying to upg off of a websaver fare .. the request was made politely. 10 min later the same agent is giving the guy an operational upg!!!

As for transpacific: 31 Jan AC5 YVR-PVG went out with 4/34 in J. 3 Feb AC6 PVG-YVR went out 24/35 but with only 8 booked (per the concierge in PVG) so a lot of operationals.
For YVR-PEK on 15 Feb which I am booked on it is showing as of tonight 5/24 and 5/24 for 20Feb return PEK-YVR.
Looking ahead to early May for YVR-NRT and the 747-400 J cabin is empty for all but 2 or 3 seats.

Agree with Empress ... this is a load of crap which Rupert gladly repeats about upgrading SEs/Es are blocking rev Js right across their system. Maybe on YYZ-LHR and YVR-HKG -- so they should set their capacity controls for C class tighter on those routes -- not squeeze the rest of the routes with empty J seats. [end of rant].

The line that AC is peddling is a load of hogwash. If they were REALLY concerned about protecting revenue J, they'd use C inventory to do it! Seriously.

When I tried to price a recent YYC-YYZ flight in V, the J inventory came back like this (for four outbounds):

J9 C0
J9 C0
J4 C0
J9 C0

Tell me with a straight face that there are NO J seats available on the flights. Hogwash!

They have a built in capacity control mechanism to protect revenue... it's called C CLASS INVENTORY and we're taking a double screwing without even thinking about it!

Remember, it has NOTHING to do with "@sses to seats" in J - that's just the "sleight of hand" that AC is playing on us. Focus on the J rev seats, and watch me remove C inventory. Presto! Instantly worthless upgrade opportunities!

I have just checked the seating of my upcoming flight YVR-YOW for 2 people... and it is showing J9 C9 Y9 M9 B9 H9 V9 Q9 L9 and N1 T1.... the up front section is presently showing 7/36... Looks like plenty of room still left in J

Last week I was on the 7AM from YYZ-YOW in J on the A319, it was full and they could have used the 320.

Returning on I believe the 4PM, an international 767-300 it to was full in J.

Ottawa gets like this at these times so one needs to look at the day overall, but my two flights were full.

There are some routes where J will be quite full if not completely so: YVR-YYZ is generally in this state, not due to revenue but to upgrading for overbooking. Same would hold for YYZ-MIA flights, which are often overbooked in the back. My transborders to/from ORD have been very light in the back, as well as in the front since 9.11.

Why can't AC recognize they could generate additional revenue by selling us V fares and permitting confirmed upgrading, than letting us sit it out on a Q fare, and still likely get an operational upgrade on certain flights? Hell, if Empress can now get an operational, anyone can! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif