wailing, unattended infants in EF
#31
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Programs: AC E50K (*G), Westjet Gold
Posts: 788
This reminds me of a trip maybe 5 years ago to New Zealand- There was a family of 5 at the ANZ Intl lounge in Auckland, and the agent was trying to refuse the family entry. I remember overhearing that they were paying J customers, all 5, but the kids were maybe 2, 4 and 5 years old, and running around the entrance. I went in, and don't remember seeing that family after that....
I usually don't mind kids on planes. I find the problem to be parents who, like you point out, refuse to control their children. Lots of times, it's kids standing on seats during take off, or sitting in the aisle, or sitting with one parent and HOWLING for the other- each of which can be controlled by the parent.
I usually don't mind kids on planes. I find the problem to be parents who, like you point out, refuse to control their children. Lots of times, it's kids standing on seats during take off, or sitting in the aisle, or sitting with one parent and HOWLING for the other- each of which can be controlled by the parent.
#32
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: 048′24″N 17636′59″W
Programs: Taiwan is a country.
Posts: 1,206
Nope.. Our son slept on many a AC EF seat when he was younger.. little tiny seat belt around his waist connected to normal seatbelt. No one said a word.
#33
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Programs: Taiwan is a country.
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On a recent YYZ/YVR flight, there was a single mother with an 18 month old travelling in J (pods). She held him in arms on take-off but laid him on a flat pod while he slept. The mother had her breakfast in empty pod behind me while the 18 month old slept. We were all happy that the little one went for an extended nap. The family had connected from an overnight flight from Brazil and the mom was exhausted.
#34
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: YOW
Programs: AC down to Orange lol, Marriott Silver?
Posts: 3,217
That reminds me of a flight from Europe back to Canada for Xmas where a 8-10 year old boy was kicking my seat off and on for hours and I was coming down with a cold and feeling under the weather. That was a hellish flight.
#35
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: YQR
Programs: Aeroplan - E75, Delta Sky Miles - Silver, HHonors - Gold, Club Carlson Silver
Posts: 561
Kids travel, parents have a responsibility to keep them under their care. But, like the guy who works in Fort Mac and was flying from YEG to YQR 2 weeks ago so drunk/rude/loud/crass/afraid to fly, sometimes they can't always control them. What matters is that they are trying. Give them he'll if they kick other people's seats, do everything you can to try to calm a crying baby/toddler. Others will appreciate it.
By the way, our 5 and 3 year old slept while the loudmouth yelled immediately behind us. And as for the lounge, we tried both YVR and YEG on that trip. As soon as the kids didn't behave, we bolted. There is a difference between what you could do, and what you should do...
By the way, our 5 and 3 year old slept while the loudmouth yelled immediately behind us. And as for the lounge, we tried both YVR and YEG on that trip. As soon as the kids didn't behave, we bolted. There is a difference between what you could do, and what you should do...
#36
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan E
Posts: 566
I am usually one to defend a parent and childs rights to fly in the J cabin, but in this instance.....
It is a parents job to keep their kids quiet. Flight attendants should have turned their screens off and not stopped pestering them until they actually parented their children...
It is a parents job to keep their kids quiet. Flight attendants should have turned their screens off and not stopped pestering them until they actually parented their children...
As a parent with a 5 year old and a 2 year old, my family has flown on both Y and J multiple times. It is up to us the parents to keep our kids occupied in either class. The lavatories are okay for diaper changes. My kids enjoy both the lounge experience and J experience and do know how to behave on flights...
#37
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: YYJ
Programs: AC 100KSE
Posts: 272
I think the other thing to take into consideration when determining if parents are not controlling their kids enough, is that the parent might not know what their kid is doing is a problem. (Not the unattended screaming for hours, that one is pretty obvious).
The first time I flew with my kids, 1 of which is on the "active" side of the scale, I was guilty of this. He less than a year old at the time and was jolly jumpering on the seat - standing facing the back and bending and straightening his knees. He was having a great time, happy and laughing. I had no idea he was bouncing the tray table of the guy behind until a particularly big bounce spilled the guys coffee and he was pissed off. It sounded like he had been getting progressively more irritated as time went on, but didn't say anything until he was mad.
That was more than 20 years ago, and I still remember how embarrassed I was to have been inconsiderate, and to have my kids perceived as misbehaving.
I think lots of parents are in the same boat, especially with the seat kicking and the IFE pushing. They don't know it is bothering anyone, and people who are being bothered often don't feel comfortable saying anything, sometimes until it is too late.
The first time I flew with my kids, 1 of which is on the "active" side of the scale, I was guilty of this. He less than a year old at the time and was jolly jumpering on the seat - standing facing the back and bending and straightening his knees. He was having a great time, happy and laughing. I had no idea he was bouncing the tray table of the guy behind until a particularly big bounce spilled the guys coffee and he was pissed off. It sounded like he had been getting progressively more irritated as time went on, but didn't say anything until he was mad.
That was more than 20 years ago, and I still remember how embarrassed I was to have been inconsiderate, and to have my kids perceived as misbehaving.
I think lots of parents are in the same boat, especially with the seat kicking and the IFE pushing. They don't know it is bothering anyone, and people who are being bothered often don't feel comfortable saying anything, sometimes until it is too late.
#38
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Location: SFO
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#39
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: Air Canada Aeroplan
Posts: 1,748
No. AC can (and does) accept full J fares for cellos. It does accept full Y or J fares for empty seats. You can book the entire executive first cabin for yourself if you want - clearly the seats would be empty whether the seat belt sign is on or off, and no food will be served in those seats.
#40
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: MP 1K,
Posts: 274
For most Families travelling with kids is far more stressful for the parents who are very concerned about the way their children behave. I have all the patience in the world for an upset child. I have very little patience for parents who don't care (Which sounds like the case in the OP).
Now that my kids have a few flying miles under their belts I am very confident that they will be better behaved and more courteous than some adults in any class of seat or lounge.
Last edited by smarsh102; Mar 13, 2013 at 6:26 pm Reason: spelling
#41
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Australia and Canada
Programs: Qantas FF Plat; Virgin Aust Plat;
Posts: 799
My 2 bob's worth.
Three basic categories of parents with wailing babes.
1. Aware of the possible nuisance to others, try their best to calm the infant. Usually obvious to other pax who will often then pitch in to help, if wanted; most.
2. Unaware of the nuisance, because its the usual 'background noise'. Will usually appreciate the situation with receipt of daggered looks or a first murmur from a FA; substantial minority
3. Couldn't care less. "Babe/infant has to know they don't rule the roost. I ignore wailings and to hell with the fact that we are in a small confined space with 50 others within earshot, for about 10 hours". These parents are the problem. Small minority, but most apparent. Should be on a 'no fly' list.
Three basic categories of parents with wailing babes.
1. Aware of the possible nuisance to others, try their best to calm the infant. Usually obvious to other pax who will often then pitch in to help, if wanted; most.
2. Unaware of the nuisance, because its the usual 'background noise'. Will usually appreciate the situation with receipt of daggered looks or a first murmur from a FA; substantial minority
3. Couldn't care less. "Babe/infant has to know they don't rule the roost. I ignore wailings and to hell with the fact that we are in a small confined space with 50 others within earshot, for about 10 hours". These parents are the problem. Small minority, but most apparent. Should be on a 'no fly' list.
#42
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 310
In my experience most parents think they own the plane and because they have children we should all be loving and kind and treat them like gods walking the earth. Forget it there is no excuse. The loudmouthed guy could be partially deaf. No excuse he should know. Your child is jumping up and down on a seat and you don't think about the person behind him. No excuse. The fact that one thinks the person behind should say something before they are angry shows one making excuses and putting the emphasis on the other person(who is probably being politie and hoping you will think it through yourself) > thanks for the example btw and I am not purposely attacking the pax above but just such a great example<
The best example that comes to mind was when a child dumped her juice over my head because she was standing on the seat. I yelled because I was startled. The mother yelled at me me yelling. Lord. The father was angry at me. i was coverd in juice and so was my computer. Great.
If you have children and travel I think you should ask people afterwards if you made their flight unpleasant and make sure to ask them to be honest. I suspect many parents will be in for a big shock. Big.
The best example that comes to mind was when a child dumped her juice over my head because she was standing on the seat. I yelled because I was startled. The mother yelled at me me yelling. Lord. The father was angry at me. i was coverd in juice and so was my computer. Great.
If you have children and travel I think you should ask people afterwards if you made their flight unpleasant and make sure to ask them to be honest. I suspect many parents will be in for a big shock. Big.
#43
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: YQR
Programs: Aeroplan - E75, Delta Sky Miles - Silver, HHonors - Gold, Club Carlson Silver
Posts: 561
In my experience most parents think they own the plane and because they have children we should all be loving and kind and treat them like gods walking the earth. Forget it there is no excuse. The loudmouthed guy could be partially deaf. No excuse he should know. Your child is jumping up and down on a seat and you don't think about the person behind him. No excuse. The fact that one thinks the person behind should say something before they are angry shows one making excuses and putting the emphasis on the other person(who is probably being politie and hoping you will think it through yourself) > thanks for the example btw and I am not purposely attacking the pax above but just such a great example<
The best example that comes to mind was when a child dumped her juice over my head because she was standing on the seat. I yelled because I was startled. The mother yelled at me me yelling. Lord. The father was angry at me. i was coverd in juice and so was my computer. Great.
If you have children and travel I think you should ask people afterwards if you made their flight unpleasant and make sure to ask them to be honest. I suspect many parents will be in for a big shock. Big.
The best example that comes to mind was when a child dumped her juice over my head because she was standing on the seat. I yelled because I was startled. The mother yelled at me me yelling. Lord. The father was angry at me. i was coverd in juice and so was my computer. Great.
If you have children and travel I think you should ask people afterwards if you made their flight unpleasant and make sure to ask them to be honest. I suspect many parents will be in for a big shock. Big.
Do you have kids? If you do, how old are they? 30? Don't be a jerk - you were an annoying kid once as well. Just because you feel that the world should shield you from any and all annoyances that come along, doesn't make you right.
To all who want to fly without any problems from other pax, get working and get yourself a private jet. A G5 or something, that would be nice. Or tone down the attitude. I'm surprised some dog lover hasn't said "humph, well, my dogs are better behaved than that, blah blah." They are dogs, they get disciplined until they are your slave.
#44
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YYJ
Programs: 50K
Posts: 307
In my experience most parents think they own the plane and because they have children we should all be loving and kind and treat them like gods walking the earth. Forget it there is no excuse. The loudmouthed guy could be partially deaf. No excuse he should know. Your child is jumping up and down on a seat and you don't think about the person behind him. No excuse. The fact that one thinks the person behind should say something before they are angry shows one making excuses and putting the emphasis on the other person(who is probably being politie and hoping you will think it through yourself) > thanks for the example btw and I am not purposely attacking the pax above but just such a great example<
The best example that comes to mind was when a child dumped her juice over my head because she was standing on the seat. I yelled because I was startled. The mother yelled at me me yelling. Lord. The father was angry at me. i was coverd in juice and so was my computer. Great.
If you have children and travel I think you should ask people afterwards if you made their flight unpleasant and make sure to ask them to be honest. I suspect many parents will be in for a big shock. Big.
The best example that comes to mind was when a child dumped her juice over my head because she was standing on the seat. I yelled because I was startled. The mother yelled at me me yelling. Lord. The father was angry at me. i was coverd in juice and so was my computer. Great.
If you have children and travel I think you should ask people afterwards if you made their flight unpleasant and make sure to ask them to be honest. I suspect many parents will be in for a big shock. Big.
When my children were younger I was hyper aware of their actions because I knew in that small space a child can be a real nuisance for other passengers. I was aware because I didn't like when it happened to me. I personally appreciate parents who pay attention and take action when their child is behaving in a way that negatively impacts another passenger.
Children will be children and things happen that are beyond a parents control but as long as there is clear intent on the part of parents to maintain order and control I am very forgiving.