wailing, unattended infants in EF

Old Mar 13, 2013, 12:09 am
  #31  
 
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This reminds me of a trip maybe 5 years ago to New Zealand- There was a family of 5 at the ANZ Intl lounge in Auckland, and the agent was trying to refuse the family entry. I remember overhearing that they were paying J customers, all 5, but the kids were maybe 2, 4 and 5 years old, and running around the entrance. I went in, and don't remember seeing that family after that....

I usually don't mind kids on planes. I find the problem to be parents who, like you point out, refuse to control their children. Lots of times, it's kids standing on seats during take off, or sitting in the aisle, or sitting with one parent and HOWLING for the other- each of which can be controlled by the parent.
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 12:26 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by mromalley
Just to clarify - the infant (aka in arm child) was laid on a seat unsecured? No car seat?

That has got to against some sort of transport rule/law. A child in a car must be restrained, but not in a plane?
Nope.. Our son slept on many a AC EF seat when he was younger.. little tiny seat belt around his waist connected to normal seatbelt. No one said a word.
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 12:27 am
  #33  
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Originally Posted by acysb87
On a recent YYZ/YVR flight, there was a single mother with an 18 month old travelling in J (pods). She held him in arms on take-off but laid him on a flat pod while he slept. The mother had her breakfast in empty pod behind me while the 18 month old slept. We were all happy that the little one went for an extended nap. The family had connected from an overnight flight from Brazil and the mom was exhausted.
This was exactly our situation. (except the Brazil bit)
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 4:11 am
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by ac777
I have come across parents who think an 8 year old kicking my seat back is a great sport until I got up, faced the child and told him to stop it.
That reminds me of a flight from Europe back to Canada for Xmas where a 8-10 year old boy was kicking my seat off and on for hours and I was coming down with a cold and feeling under the weather. That was a hellish flight.
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 5:12 am
  #35  
 
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Kids travel, parents have a responsibility to keep them under their care. But, like the guy who works in Fort Mac and was flying from YEG to YQR 2 weeks ago so drunk/rude/loud/crass/afraid to fly, sometimes they can't always control them. What matters is that they are trying. Give them he'll if they kick other people's seats, do everything you can to try to calm a crying baby/toddler. Others will appreciate it.

By the way, our 5 and 3 year old slept while the loudmouth yelled immediately behind us. And as for the lounge, we tried both YVR and YEG on that trip. As soon as the kids didn't behave, we bolted. There is a difference between what you could do, and what you should do...
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 6:45 am
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by canforce
I am usually one to defend a parent and childs rights to fly in the J cabin, but in this instance.....

It is a parents job to keep their kids quiet. Flight attendants should have turned their screens off and not stopped pestering them until they actually parented their children...
+1

As a parent with a 5 year old and a 2 year old, my family has flown on both Y and J multiple times. It is up to us the parents to keep our kids occupied in either class. The lavatories are okay for diaper changes. My kids enjoy both the lounge experience and J experience and do know how to behave on flights...
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 8:45 am
  #37  
 
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I think the other thing to take into consideration when determining if parents are not controlling their kids enough, is that the parent might not know what their kid is doing is a problem. (Not the unattended screaming for hours, that one is pretty obvious).

The first time I flew with my kids, 1 of which is on the "active" side of the scale, I was guilty of this. He less than a year old at the time and was jolly jumpering on the seat - standing facing the back and bending and straightening his knees. He was having a great time, happy and laughing. I had no idea he was bouncing the tray table of the guy behind until a particularly big bounce spilled the guys coffee and he was pissed off. It sounded like he had been getting progressively more irritated as time went on, but didn't say anything until he was mad.

That was more than 20 years ago, and I still remember how embarrassed I was to have been inconsiderate, and to have my kids perceived as misbehaving.

I think lots of parents are in the same boat, especially with the seat kicking and the IFE pushing. They don't know it is bothering anyone, and people who are being bothered often don't feel comfortable saying anything, sometimes until it is too late.
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 9:19 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by yyj9
the IFE pushing
I always get nervous trying to plug in my laptop. I try so hard not to really push the seat, but there's no way the person in front of me doesn't feel it.
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 9:39 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by yeg2where
OP said the infant was held for take-off & landing, i.e. when seat belt sign is on. Do the T&C prevent AC from accepting full J fare for a seat which is not used when the seat belt sign is on and which has no associated costs to AC (no food, no drink)?
No. AC can (and does) accept full J fares for cellos. It does accept full Y or J fares for empty seats. You can book the entire executive first cabin for yourself if you want - clearly the seats would be empty whether the seat belt sign is on or off, and no food will be served in those seats.
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 1:59 pm
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by yyj9
That was more than 20 years ago, and I still remember how embarrassed I was to have been inconsiderate, and to have my kids perceived as misbehaving.
A few years ago my wife flew to France to meet me with our at the time 6 month old son. Apparently he cried the whole time despite the constant efforts of my wife (everyone on the plane was courteous and tried to help). By the time she got to me she was a sobbing stressed out mess.

For most Families travelling with kids is far more stressful for the parents who are very concerned about the way their children behave. I have all the patience in the world for an upset child. I have very little patience for parents who don't care (Which sounds like the case in the OP).

Now that my kids have a few flying miles under their belts I am very confident that they will be better behaved and more courteous than some adults in any class of seat or lounge.

Last edited by smarsh102; Mar 13, 2013 at 6:26 pm Reason: spelling
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 6:48 pm
  #41  
 
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My 2 bob's worth.

Three basic categories of parents with wailing babes.

1. Aware of the possible nuisance to others, try their best to calm the infant. Usually obvious to other pax who will often then pitch in to help, if wanted; most.

2. Unaware of the nuisance, because its the usual 'background noise'. Will usually appreciate the situation with receipt of daggered looks or a first murmur from a FA; substantial minority

3. Couldn't care less. "Babe/infant has to know they don't rule the roost. I ignore wailings and to hell with the fact that we are in a small confined space with 50 others within earshot, for about 10 hours". These parents are the problem. Small minority, but most apparent. Should be on a 'no fly' list.
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 8:17 pm
  #42  
 
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In my experience most parents think they own the plane and because they have children we should all be loving and kind and treat them like gods walking the earth. Forget it there is no excuse. The loudmouthed guy could be partially deaf. No excuse he should know. Your child is jumping up and down on a seat and you don't think about the person behind him. No excuse. The fact that one thinks the person behind should say something before they are angry shows one making excuses and putting the emphasis on the other person(who is probably being politie and hoping you will think it through yourself) > thanks for the example btw and I am not purposely attacking the pax above but just such a great example<

The best example that comes to mind was when a child dumped her juice over my head because she was standing on the seat. I yelled because I was startled. The mother yelled at me me yelling. Lord. The father was angry at me. i was coverd in juice and so was my computer. Great.

If you have children and travel I think you should ask people afterwards if you made their flight unpleasant and make sure to ask them to be honest. I suspect many parents will be in for a big shock. Big.
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 6:05 am
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by todare
In my experience most parents think they own the plane and because they have children we should all be loving and kind and treat them like gods walking the earth. Forget it there is no excuse. The loudmouthed guy could be partially deaf. No excuse he should know. Your child is jumping up and down on a seat and you don't think about the person behind him. No excuse. The fact that one thinks the person behind should say something before they are angry shows one making excuses and putting the emphasis on the other person(who is probably being politie and hoping you will think it through yourself) > thanks for the example btw and I am not purposely attacking the pax above but just such a great example<

The best example that comes to mind was when a child dumped her juice over my head because she was standing on the seat. I yelled because I was startled. The mother yelled at me me yelling. Lord. The father was angry at me. i was coverd in juice and so was my computer. Great.

If you have children and travel I think you should ask people afterwards if you made their flight unpleasant and make sure to ask them to be honest. I suspect many parents will be in for a big shock. Big.
So, parents are the culprit, but other out of line pax are not? BTW, the loudmouth was not deaf. He was drunk. I could smell it. And he kept yelling "whoa, we are gonna crash, hahahahahah", and spouting racist remarks. So quit sticking up for old jerks to defend your rant about how "if it was my kid, I would, blahblahblah".

Do you have kids? If you do, how old are they? 30? Don't be a jerk - you were an annoying kid once as well. Just because you feel that the world should shield you from any and all annoyances that come along, doesn't make you right.

To all who want to fly without any problems from other pax, get working and get yourself a private jet. A G5 or something, that would be nice. Or tone down the attitude. I'm surprised some dog lover hasn't said "humph, well, my dogs are better behaved than that, blah blah." They are dogs, they get disciplined until they are your slave.
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 11:57 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by todare
In my experience most parents think they own the plane and because they have children we should all be loving and kind and treat them like gods walking the earth. Forget it there is no excuse. The loudmouthed guy could be partially deaf. No excuse he should know. Your child is jumping up and down on a seat and you don't think about the person behind him. No excuse. The fact that one thinks the person behind should say something before they are angry shows one making excuses and putting the emphasis on the other person(who is probably being politie and hoping you will think it through yourself) > thanks for the example btw and I am not purposely attacking the pax above but just such a great example<

The best example that comes to mind was when a child dumped her juice over my head because she was standing on the seat. I yelled because I was startled. The mother yelled at me me yelling. Lord. The father was angry at me. i was coverd in juice and so was my computer. Great.

If you have children and travel I think you should ask people afterwards if you made their flight unpleasant and make sure to ask them to be honest. I suspect many parents will be in for a big shock. Big.
I have seen both situations: parents who are attentive and aware of what there children are doing on the plane and those who seem to be oblivious. You see the same types of parents at playgrounds BTW.

When my children were younger I was hyper aware of their actions because I knew in that small space a child can be a real nuisance for other passengers. I was aware because I didn't like when it happened to me. I personally appreciate parents who pay attention and take action when their child is behaving in a way that negatively impacts another passenger.

Children will be children and things happen that are beyond a parents control but as long as there is clear intent on the part of parents to maintain order and control I am very forgiving.
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 6:55 pm
  #45  
 
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Hey, I *am* deaf and I don't holler on planes.
On the other hand, I don't ever appreciate being deaf more than when I read these stories.
:-D
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