May 5, 2014, 8:21 pm
Last edit by: Arcanum
Flights operated by Air Canada rouge
NOTE: Rouge Wifi information can be found here
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...l#post28448087
Dates in brackets indicate planned start of rouge service (either as a new route or replacing mainline service). ML placed before a date indicates the date that service is reverting to mainline.
All Airbus A319/A321 service is in the new Premium Rouge configuration with 2x2J seats. All other routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft in a 24J/258Y layout.
Airport codes in blue indicate that these routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft for all services.
Airport codes in red indicate that these routes are split between Boeing 767-300ER and Airbus services.
Airport codes in black indicate that these routes are Airbus aircraft for all services.
Routes are organized based on the established rouge bases of YYZ, YUL, YYC, and YVR
*Seasonal Summer Service
YYZ
Canada
YQT YQY YXX YLW YYG (02MAY-OCT) YDF YQB YQM (01MAY19) YFC (01JUL19)
USA
MCO TPA LAS FLL HNL SRQ RSW SAN PHX MIA PSP (14DEC16)
Mexico
CUN PVR SJD
Caribbean
KIN NAS LIR GND MBJ AZS CCC CUR HUX PUJ POP SKB SJO SXM LRM HOG SNU UVF VRA BGI (07JAN) POS (21DEC16)
Europe
ATH BCN EDI VCE MAN LIS PRG BUD GLA LGW
Central and South America
LIM BOG PTY
YUL
USA
LAS MCO FLL PBI TPA MIA
Mexico
CUN MEX PVR (18NOV16)
Caribbean
ZSA CCC HOG PUJ SNU PLS POP PAP NAS (17JAN) PTP
Europe
FCO ATH BCN NCE VCE
Central and South America
SJO (22DEC16)
Africa
CMN
YYC
Canada
YHZ* YHM (2016)
USA
LAS PHX (winter only - PHX AC Express in summer)
YVR
USA
LAS HNL OGG PHX PSP KOA SAN (02JUN)
Mexico
CUN PVR
Asia
KIX
Europe
DUB LGA KEF
What to Do If Your Flight Has Been Rouged According to the AC Rep "Air Canada Altitude": call AC Reservations, cancel and get a refund.
Air Canada rouge, a leisure airline
Jun 16, 2014, 6:15 am
#2941
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 20,550
Air Canada rouge has further adjusted planned operations on Vancouver – Los Angeles route for Winter 2014/15 season. Based on recent schedule update, rouge plans to introduce Boeing 767-300ER operation on 1 of 3 daily service, from 28NOV14 to 30APR15.
AC1878 YVR0800 – 1045LAX 763 D
AC1882 YVR1330 – 1623LAX 319 D
AC1884 YVR2015 – 2308LAX 319 D
AC1879 LAX0745 – 1042YVR 319 D
AC1881 LAX1205 – 1457YVR 763 D
AC1885 LAX1705 – 2002YVR 319 D
source: airlineroute.net
AC1878 YVR0800 – 1045LAX 763 D
AC1882 YVR1330 – 1623LAX 319 D
AC1884 YVR2015 – 2308LAX 319 D
AC1879 LAX0745 – 1042YVR 319 D
AC1881 LAX1205 – 1457YVR 763 D
AC1885 LAX1705 – 2002YVR 319 D
source: airlineroute.net
Jun 16, 2014, 9:12 am
#2942
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: YYJ
Programs: AC - SE100K
Posts: 727
Air Canada rouge has further adjusted planned operations on Vancouver – Los Angeles route for Winter 2014/15 season. Based on recent schedule update, rouge plans to introduce Boeing 767-300ER operation on 1 of 3 daily service, from 28NOV14 to 30APR15.
AC1878 YVR0800 – 1045LAX 763 D
AC1882 YVR1330 – 1623LAX 319 D
AC1884 YVR2015 – 2308LAX 319 D
AC1879 LAX0745 – 1042YVR 319 D
AC1881 LAX1205 – 1457YVR 763 D
AC1885 LAX1705 – 2002YVR 319 D
source: airlineroute.net
AC1878 YVR0800 – 1045LAX 763 D
AC1882 YVR1330 – 1623LAX 319 D
AC1884 YVR2015 – 2308LAX 319 D
AC1879 LAX0745 – 1042YVR 319 D
AC1881 LAX1205 – 1457YVR 763 D
AC1885 LAX1705 – 2002YVR 319 D
source: airlineroute.net
Jun 16, 2014, 10:41 am
#2943
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
Can't say I m surprised though. Spoke to an AC pilot about the route; its cargo heavy with cargo often subsidizing pax. Was surprised till I found out that the Brazilian Canadian population is under 30,000 strong. Not sure how you expect them to fill 363 seats a day given visa restrictions, and low personal links. That's essentially 280 seats more than the current population would fill if they returned as VFR once a year. Can't see them doing it with more than a 763 for a while yet.
Of course, common sense dictates that all routes don't generate equal demand. Some routes may be profitable. Others may not.
Jun 16, 2014, 2:13 pm
#2944
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 108
Need to get to BCN in October from YYZ and I noticed the price difference between Econ Tango and Premium Economy (Rouge) is just $206. For the difference in AP miles and nicer seat, it seems like a bargain. Anyone tried the Premium Rouge to Europe? Is it a good deal to pay this for the upgrade?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Jun 16, 2014, 2:24 pm
#2945
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MLL / AC Cafe
Programs: It's hard to get status when the website won't let me book flights.
Posts: 5,706
Air Canada rouge, a new leisure airline
The bnc route in oct is planned to be the 767. You will kick yourself if you don't take the premium rouge.
The 767 premium rouge seats are basically business seats domestically vs the cramped economy I would say buy it right now.
The 767 premium rouge seats are basically business seats domestically vs the cramped economy I would say buy it right now.
Jun 16, 2014, 2:29 pm
#2946
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: AC, A3*G AB-G
Posts: 155
My parents flew premium rouge YUL-BCN last week. It was an old 767, not yet renovated (one of the "three amigos" with monitors hanging from the ceiling). The YYZ plane may be different.
The seats were old and worn, but they said that it was still comfortable, the food and service was very good, the iPad IFE worked well, and they got a bit of sleep. It was also not very much more expensive than Tango and they felt that it was well worth it and would do it again.
The seats were old and worn, but they said that it was still comfortable, the food and service was very good, the iPad IFE worked well, and they got a bit of sleep. It was also not very much more expensive than Tango and they felt that it was well worth it and would do it again.
Jun 16, 2014, 2:35 pm
#2947
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Never home.
Posts: 2,971
Oh? Did they get their 763s from LAN?
Can't say I m surprised though. Spoke to an AC pilot about the route; its cargo heavy with cargo often subsidizing pax. Was surprised till I found out that the Brazilian Canadian population is under 30,000 strong. Not sure how you expect them to fill 363 seats a day given visa restrictions, and low personal links. That's essentially 280 seats more than the current population would fill if they returned as VFR once a year. Can't see them doing it with more than a 763 for a while yet.
Of course, common sense dictates that all routes don't generate equal demand. Some routes may be profitable. Others may not.
Can't say I m surprised though. Spoke to an AC pilot about the route; its cargo heavy with cargo often subsidizing pax. Was surprised till I found out that the Brazilian Canadian population is under 30,000 strong. Not sure how you expect them to fill 363 seats a day given visa restrictions, and low personal links. That's essentially 280 seats more than the current population would fill if they returned as VFR once a year. Can't see them doing it with more than a 763 for a while yet.
Of course, common sense dictates that all routes don't generate equal demand. Some routes may be profitable. Others may not.
Same as Emirates, Qatar, Turkish, Lufthansa, Etihad... the populations alone can't make the routes work but with 3rd country feed like TAM could do with S. America they shouldn't have that much difficulty filling aircraft. But it is probably all junk-yield passengers.
Jun 16, 2014, 3:48 pm
#2948
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
You linked the 773 cancellation to Canada. I pointed out that the 763, which they hadn't cancelled, was more likely to serve the route than a 77W, which would be too large. If AC's minting money on cargo rather than pax traffic on the route, then sending an aircraft in through NYC to pick up cargo makes sense.
Not really sure what you're trying to argue here - that there are markets from Canada that won't be profitable solely on pax traffic because of insufficient pax demand? Theres obviously going to be a few routes like that.
Same as Emirates, Qatar, Turkish, Lufthansa, Etihad... the populations alone can't make the routes work but with 3rd country feed like TAM could do with S. America they shouldn't have that much difficulty filling aircraft. But it is probably all junk-yield passengers
Have a look at it and tell me where your logic falls short.
Hint: Sixth freedom traffic on the carriers you've mentioned include the entire Indian subcontinent - population 1.7bn, including 3 of the top 10 sources of immigrants in 2011. Sixth freedom traffic connecting from Sao Paulo - without backtracking - would connect to 5 airports in 4 countries: Argentina (2 in Buenos Aires), Uruguay, Paraguay and Chile, with a combined population of 70 million. And none of those countries have particularly strong links with Canada. The entire population of Uruguay is lower than YYZ.
Not really sure why we're discussing this here anyhow.
Jun 16, 2014, 4:11 pm
#2949
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Never home.
Posts: 2,971
You mentioned 30,000 pop. and that VFR 1/yr it couldnt fill a 763. I was only saying it doesn't need to, that TAM has better S. American feed than AC and perhaps they can fill planes even if low yield since cargo makes up for it.
maps.google.com
Have a look at it and tell me where your logic falls short.
Hint: Sixth freedom traffic on the carriers you've mentioned include the entire Indian subcontinent - population 1.7bn, including 3 of the top 10 sources of immigrants in 2011. Sixth freedom traffic connecting from Sao Paulo - without backtracking - would connect to 5 airports in 4 countries: Argentina (2 in Buenos Aires), Uruguay, Paraguay and Chile, with a combined population of 70 million. And none of those countries have particularly strong links with Canada. The entire population of Uruguay is lower than YYZ.
Not really sure why we're discussing this here anyhow.
Have a look at it and tell me where your logic falls short.
Hint: Sixth freedom traffic on the carriers you've mentioned include the entire Indian subcontinent - population 1.7bn, including 3 of the top 10 sources of immigrants in 2011. Sixth freedom traffic connecting from Sao Paulo - without backtracking - would connect to 5 airports in 4 countries: Argentina (2 in Buenos Aires), Uruguay, Paraguay and Chile, with a combined population of 70 million. And none of those countries have particularly strong links with Canada. The entire population of Uruguay is lower than YYZ.
Not really sure why we're discussing this here anyhow.
Quite the sidetrack I agree. Someone said TAM was 'short on aircraft' therefore 1-stop YYZ service... I only meant the 77W cancellation post to point out they aren't that desperate for aircraft.
Jun 16, 2014, 4:25 pm
#2950
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
By "spoke", some of us know you actually mean read his posts in an open forum chiming in from time to time. "Spoke" haha
That is what he said while posting actual insight on 77L on YYZGRU
You keep saying Canada is undersupplied. Why is TAM service on GRUYYZ limited to Brazil? Do they not connect passengers from all over SA via GRU? Can we take South America-Canada off your undersupplied list, then? Have you provided any list? Have you provided a market in equilibrium as an example?
That is what he said while posting actual insight on 77L on YYZGRU
You keep saying Canada is undersupplied. Why is TAM service on GRUYYZ limited to Brazil? Do they not connect passengers from all over SA via GRU? Can we take South America-Canada off your undersupplied list, then? Have you provided any list? Have you provided a market in equilibrium as an example?
Jun 17, 2014, 5:49 am
#2951
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Thanks for the Memories !!!
Posts: 10,657
Looks like the complaints about Rouge are problematic and costing $$$ !
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle19191336/
The airline has delayed its new flights to Haneda airport in Tokyo, put off Dreamliner service to Tel Aviv and been forced to lease planes from a European charter airline that offer fewer amenities, causing headaches for travellers and the airline as it fields customer criticism of Rouge, its new low-cost airline
The airline has delayed its new flights to Haneda airport in Tokyo, put off Dreamliner service to Tel Aviv and been forced to lease planes from a European charter airline that offer fewer amenities, causing headaches for travellers and the airline as it fields customer criticism of Rouge, its new low-cost airline
Jun 17, 2014, 6:07 am
#2952
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: AP SE
Posts: 150
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle19191336/
The airline has delayed its new flights to Haneda airport in Tokyo, put off Dreamliner service to Tel Aviv and been forced to lease planes from a European charter airline that offer fewer amenities, causing headaches for travellers and the airline as it fields customer criticism of Rouge, its new low-cost airline
The airline has delayed its new flights to Haneda airport in Tokyo, put off Dreamliner service to Tel Aviv and been forced to lease planes from a European charter airline that offer fewer amenities, causing headaches for travellers and the airline as it fields customer criticism of Rouge, its new low-cost airline
Jun 17, 2014, 6:26 am
#2953
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
By "spoke", some of us know you actually mean read his posts in an open forum chiming in from time to time. "Spoke" haha
That is what he said while posting actual insight on 77L on YYZGRU
You keep saying Canada is undersupplied. Why is TAM service on GRUYYZ limited to Brazil? Do they not connect passengers from all over SA via GRU? Can we take South America-Canada off your undersupplied list, then? Have you provided any list? Have you provided a market in equilibrium as an example?
That is what he said while posting actual insight on 77L on YYZGRU
You keep saying Canada is undersupplied. Why is TAM service on GRUYYZ limited to Brazil? Do they not connect passengers from all over SA via GRU? Can we take South America-Canada off your undersupplied list, then? Have you provided any list? Have you provided a market in equilibrium as an example?
While it stands to reason that not all markets are equal, I ll show you market equilibrium the moment you explain how an injection of capacity to the tune of nearly 10% by two Canadian airlines hasn't led to yield or load factor drops (incidentally, both claims you have made). AC Rouge is flying full. Where did those extra pax come from? Are they abandoning other airlines in droves to fly Rouge. I look forward to seeing how you answer that one without contradicting your posts on other threads.
Jun 17, 2014, 6:31 am
#2954
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
The 77W cancellation prevents them from upgauging markets to free up a 332/763 for Canada. Let's see if they ever make YYZ nonstop, or if the JFK-YYZ tag silently dies.
You mentioned 30,000 pop. and that VFR 1/yr it couldnt fill a 763. I was only saying it doesn't need to, that TAM has better S. American feed than AC and perhaps they can fill planes even if low yield since cargo makes up for it.
Are you saying logical South America connections through GRU aren't equal to the Indian Subcontinent in terms of population? Well aware of that... but the Indian subcontinent has far more high capacity 1-stop options to get to Canada than South America.
Quite the sidetrack I agree. Someone said TAM was 'short on aircraft' therefore 1-stop YYZ service... I only meant the 77W cancellation post to point out they aren't that desperate for aircraft.
You mentioned 30,000 pop. and that VFR 1/yr it couldnt fill a 763. I was only saying it doesn't need to, that TAM has better S. American feed than AC and perhaps they can fill planes even if low yield since cargo makes up for it.
Are you saying logical South America connections through GRU aren't equal to the Indian Subcontinent in terms of population? Well aware of that... but the Indian subcontinent has far more high capacity 1-stop options to get to Canada than South America.
Quite the sidetrack I agree. Someone said TAM was 'short on aircraft' therefore 1-stop YYZ service... I only meant the 77W cancellation post to point out they aren't that desperate for aircraft.
I don't know how much I d read into a 777 cancelation. If its not a right fit for the routes they operate, there's no point buying them. 767s still coming though, so they are expanding.
Jun 17, 2014, 6:32 am
#2955
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Closer to YTZ
Programs: Fairmont Platinum | AC Gate Lice Status | VIPorter
Posts: 2,554
AC should be stripped of its allegedly "4-star" ranking and assigned a 3 at best. And put on "Ryanair" watch.