ACPA claims AC planning offshore LCC
Feb 2, 2012, 5:48 am
#1
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 20,550
Feb 2, 2012, 6:19 am
#3
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MAN
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 1,205
From the article (emphasis added):
Anyone care to suggest me how one could save money by contracting out 2I + 4X seats on a 777 and getting ACPA to fly the rest of the plane? Bizarre.
For that matter, how do you get ACPA to fly the PAX and contractors to fly the cargo in the belly?
The airline is looking at contracting out Air Canada’s pilots’ flying for Air Canada Cargo, Air Canada Vacations, and Aeroplan, and “a potentially massive reduction in transborder and overseas flying,” Capt. Tarves said in the memo to pilots.
For that matter, how do you get ACPA to fly the PAX and contractors to fly the cargo in the belly?
Last edited by Souvlaki; Feb 2, 2012 at 6:21 am Reason: edit: "in the belly"
Feb 2, 2012, 6:44 am
#4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Closer to YTZ
Programs: Fairmont Platinum | AC Gate Lice Status | VIPorter
Posts: 2,554
C'mon, the company is headed by an investment banker. Did anyone expect les than complete gutting of 'our way of life' for unrestrained profit quests?
(Kind of of a euphanism for Canada as a whole these days).
Profit is not enough. You need quarter after record quarter. No holds barred. This is personal for them. See: Enron.
The middle class was quaint post WW2 marketing creation. It's over. In reality only two classes have ever existed: Kings and serfs. Or plantation owners and slaves. Adjusted for history the pattern is clear.
(Kind of of a euphanism for Canada as a whole these days).
Profit is not enough. You need quarter after record quarter. No holds barred. This is personal for them. See: Enron.
The middle class was quaint post WW2 marketing creation. It's over. In reality only two classes have ever existed: Kings and serfs. Or plantation owners and slaves. Adjusted for history the pattern is clear.
Feb 2, 2012, 6:49 am
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
Programs: AF Platinum, EK Gold, AA EXP, UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 21,596
C'mon, the company is headed by an investment banker. Did anyone expect les than complete gutting of 'our way of life' for unrestrained profit quests?(Kind of of a euphanism for Canada as a whole these days).
Profit is not enough. You need quarter after record quarter. No holds barred. This is personal for them. See: Enron.
The middle class was quaint post WW2 marketing creation. It's over. In reality only two classes have ever existed: Kings and serfs. Or plantation owners and slaves. Adjusted for history the pattern is clear.
Profit is not enough. You need quarter after record quarter. No holds barred. This is personal for them. See: Enron.
The middle class was quaint post WW2 marketing creation. It's over. In reality only two classes have ever existed: Kings and serfs. Or plantation owners and slaves. Adjusted for history the pattern is clear.
Feb 2, 2012, 7:24 am
#7
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 614
Comparing AC to Enron???? 
Feb 2, 2012, 3:43 pm
#11
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
Most Canadian companies in protected sectors (telecoms, I m looking at you) are doing pretty much the exact same thing as AC. The only reason it keeps coming up with AC is becuase AC is a loss-maker and the other protected industries aren't. AC isn't doing anything un-Canadian - certainly nothing more un-Canadian than what Bell, Rogers et al have been inflicting on Canada for years.
Of course, AC doesn't help its cause by overpaying a group of executives who have all but destroyed the relationship between management and labor. But that's just the way it is. No one in Canada has the cojones to pull a Sir Stelios and lambast the airline executive for taking on fat cat bonuses. For those who don't know what I m talking about, Sir Stelios founded EasyJet and he's now launched a public attack on the 'fat cat' bonus being paid out. You'll never see that happen in Canada. And this despite the fact that Easy Jet is generally profitable, which is something you can't say about AC.
I think you might have misplaced the finger you once had on the pulse of Canadian values. Not only do we tolerate profiteering, we encourage it. AC's actions aren't out of character for Canada - they're only being noticed because the relationship between management and labor has broken down in spectacular fashion and gotten media coverage as a result. Not that this should have any bearing on the bonus Calin takes home. After all, he didn't contribute to the breakdown. And the buck stops somewhere elsem not with the CEO.
Feb 2, 2012, 3:55 pm
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,645
Given that AC's pilot (and I believe FA) unions have both rejected out of hand the LCC overtures AC has made, can you really blame management for exploring other alternatives (if that is in fact what they are doing)?
Feb 2, 2012, 4:07 pm
#13
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
My understanding is that AC has refused to tell the ACPA which routes will go LCC and how they will be affected as a result of it. Launching an LCC is well and good, but if the LCC takes over, say, YYZ-BCN, then what happens to the pilots who fly it now? Will their salaries get cut? Will they be replaced by the lower paid new lot? That, to me, appears to be the sticking point.
Bit difficult to demand concessions when you refuse to tell people how making those concessions will affect them. I assume the overtures have addressed this? Or do AC's overtures amount to "just trust us"?
Feb 2, 2012, 4:47 pm
#14
Join Date: Jul 2008
Programs: Via Preference Privilege, AC*A, Fairmont Plat, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,334
Isn't the issue that there are many people in Canada who would gladly work as an AC Pilot for far less than AC Pilots currently earn? It's not like there's a shortage of people who want to become pilots.
Through Union work rules AC has no way to hire the cheaper staff who would gladly do the job even if they offered to provide them with all training etc. I suppose they sort of got around this with Jazz and the other outsourced flying operations but that only covers a subset of flights. I realize Jazz is also unionized but I'm guessing there less expensive than AC mainline pilots or they likely wouldn't of bothered creating Jazz in the first place.
If AC decides to off shore the carrier those will be jobs that aren't likely coming back anytime soon. I suppose the AC main line pilots they retain can enjoy their raise though.
Through Union work rules AC has no way to hire the cheaper staff who would gladly do the job even if they offered to provide them with all training etc. I suppose they sort of got around this with Jazz and the other outsourced flying operations but that only covers a subset of flights. I realize Jazz is also unionized but I'm guessing there less expensive than AC mainline pilots or they likely wouldn't of bothered creating Jazz in the first place.
If AC decides to off shore the carrier those will be jobs that aren't likely coming back anytime soon. I suppose the AC main line pilots they retain can enjoy their raise though.