The R Games

Old Jan 25, 12, 10:36 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: AC SE, SPG Lifetime Plat, ACMM
Posts: 3,528
The R Games

Some form of this has been discussed a long time in the past but I thought I'll call it the R games as I have been quite intrigued by how this is happening. Here is what I am observing:
On booking J7 R4
2 days later J7 R0
4 days later J7 R6
Getting closer to u/g window J7 R6
Even closer to window J7 R0
Of course all using KVS. So members must be buying latitude fares, upgrading, cancelling. Not due to awards being given out as J7 has been constant.
Will see on u/g day what really happens.
ac777 is offline  
Old Jan 25, 12, 10:49 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: +61
Programs: SQ*PPS, QF-WP1 & LTG, AA*EXP, VA-Plat, Marriott*LTPP, Hyatt*Globalist That's*Enough
Posts: 5,583
I bet R is >0 on day-of
shuuy is offline  
Old Jan 25, 12, 11:02 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E; Marriott Platinum
Posts: 2,407
Originally Posted by ac777 View Post
Of course all using KVS. So members must be buying latitude fares, upgrading, cancelling. Not due to awards being given out as J7 has been constant.
Will see on u/g day what really happens.
You are seeing AC's revenue management team at work.

Before the T+ upgrade window, they can use the R level to generate latitude fares. At T-7, they will likely lock up the R inventory (especially if J<9) to ensure that they can sell full-fare J to last minute purchasers...As the flight gets closer to departure, they may release R space based on historical selling patterns for the flight.

Good luck with the upgrade!
DaveTO is offline  
Old Jan 25, 12, 11:58 pm
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 22,470
Looking at LHR-YYC on a Sunday in february. booked Latitude, so I can upgrade at time of reservation.

LHR-YYC non-stop has no R. Booked LHR-YYZ-YYC. Which makes sense since my wife stops over for a few days at YYZ, visiting our daugher.

Anyway, got the upgrade confirmed on the LHR-YYZ leg. Waitlisted on the YYZ-YYC. I have been checking regularly, no R inventory opening at all.

Still, I fully expect that closer to departure (and closer to the Tango+ windows) they'll open me a seat.
Stranger is offline  
Old Jan 26, 12, 7:32 am
  #5  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; SPGPlat; PCPlat/Amb; HiltonDiamond; CarlsonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesGold
Posts: 38,156
Think we're all seeing this dynamic at play. R can disappear in advance when a business traveler using a full Y ticket books and upgrades, but without change fee cancels or moves their flight. AC also tends to shut R down at the opening of the SE window, wait lists, then confirms SEs before the E window opens when there are more than two open seats in J.

I've been monitoring about a half dozen flights for travel next week and this seems to be the pattern unless J is wide open (though even on some flights with J9C9 R has been zero'd out. I get wait listed at 7-days, but overnight on the 4-day window, the upgrade clears. Have one of these approaching Saturday, had one clear last night. Same experience last week, and all requested/wait listed upgrades eventually cleared.
Shareholder is offline  
Old Jan 26, 12, 7:43 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Programs: *G
Posts: 2,304
Timely thread. I have been watching a LAS-YUL. R8, J (and Z) 9 until T-7, then R0, but J thru Z unchanged. AC shows 10 seats - I know, no real indication but it ties in with J9.

I'll be going for the upgrade as an E nominee (using up 2011 eupgrades) - if it gets down to Aerolotto, hopefully my own SE status helps. (LAS do play Aerolotto, don't they - I seem to recall it was a station that could not do airport initiated upgrades?)
fin 645 is offline  
Old Jan 26, 12, 9:22 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal and Dublin
Programs: AA Platinum
Posts: 2,679
If J didn't change then I don't believe you're seeing people booking latitude, upgrading, then canceling. People who upgrade are taking up one of the seats -- whatever fantasies we have of the fare classes being independent there's only actually one set of seats. So I would expect J to drop, especially if 6 seats are suddenly taken up.

I've seen the same thing where R9 went to R0 at around the SE window -- actually just *after* in this case but perhaps that was a slip-up rather than intentional. They subsequently managed to sell almost all the seats or perhaps gave out some upgrades to SEs. By the time airport standby upgrades happened there were at most one or two.


Fwiw I suspect the international flights and the domestic flights are different teams with different strategies. The domestic flights often seem to have R0 even if there's plenty of space and the upgrades happen at the gate. The international flights seem to be updated once in the four day window to clear most upgrades in advance. But perhaps that was just a limited sample.
zkzkz is offline  
Old Jan 26, 12, 10:15 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,332
I have seen that for all the flights today LAX-YYZ. J9 C9 R0. The flight with the 763 is closer to J20 according to the seat map! Waitlisted of course. Strange behaviour.
172pilot is offline  
Old Jan 26, 12, 10:20 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE, SPG PLAT, National Executive
Posts: 1,522
J9 means at least 9.
Any class with more than 9 seats available will show 9.
mendy7511 is offline  
Old Jan 26, 12, 10:35 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 16
Hi All,

I am new at this. This is only my second post!

I am looking at using upgrades ywg-yyc-lhr on Feb 15th. I won't be able to apply for the upgrade until 4 days before as I am using my dad's upgrade credits and he is E.

What do you think my chances are? I have been trying to check flight stats but I can't get any info for yyc-lhr. I chose this flight over yyz as the 330 from yyc has more J seats.

How does Aerolotto work? Since I am not E will I still be eligible to upgrade with his credits at the gate?

Thanks for any help!

mandajordana
mandajordana is offline  
Old Jan 26, 12, 10:35 am
  #11  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,332
Originally Posted by mendy7511 View Post
J9 means at least 9.
Any class with more than 9 seats available will show 9.
I understand that. My comment was more in line with why R0 when there are close to 20 J seats open on the aircraft.
172pilot is offline  
Old Jan 26, 12, 12:16 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Programs: Marriot Plat, AC*SE
Posts: 3
re: YYC-LHR Feb 15th

http://www.KVSTool.com/?R'>[KVS Availability Tool 6.9.2/Diamond - Sabre: Availability/FS/US]
YYC Calgary Intl AB CA [CYYC]
LHR London Heathrow UK [EGLL]
WED 15 Feb 2012

Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability
--------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- -----------------------------------------------------------------
AC 850 YYC 18:15 LHR 10:10 333 R9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 S9 T9 L9 K9 J9 C9 D9 Z9

Looks wide-open right now, but too early to tell really.
samron is offline  
Old Jan 26, 12, 12:19 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: YVR
Programs: AC Super Elite, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 4,416
Originally Posted by 172pilot View Post
I understand that. My comment was more in line with why R0 when there are close to 20 J seats open on the aircraft.
That's not necessarily true either. You can have J9, with 20 spots open on the seat map, and only 15 seats being available. Not everyone who books selects a seat right away.
yvr76 is offline  
Old Jan 26, 12, 12:58 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,332
Originally Posted by yvr76 View Post
That's not necessarily true either. You can have J9, with 20 spots open on the seat map, and only 15 seats being available. Not everyone who books selects a seat right away.
Doesn't matter anyway. I was upgraded at check-in, didn't even have to play aerolotto at the gate.
172pilot is offline  
Old Jan 26, 12, 2:54 pm
  #15  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; SPGPlat; PCPlat/Amb; HiltonDiamond; CarlsonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesGold
Posts: 38,156
Originally Posted by 172pilot View Post
I have seen that for all the flights today LAX-YYZ. J9 C9 R0. The flight with the 763 is closer to J20 according to the seat map! Waitlisted of course. Strange behaviour.
That flight often gets held back in J upgrading because it often is down gauged to an A321. That happened to me last week when I expected to board a 763 and settle into the pod I had selected just the day before and found myself in a window seat of an Airbus.
Shareholder is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: