Facts about Air Canada flight attendants
Oct 17, 2011, 11:18 am
#151
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,573
i am surprised that FAs are only paid from take off to landing.....most public transportation systems are paid from report in to report out (ie. you are paid deadhead with a company equipment (car, bus, van, shuttle, train), sitting in traffic congestion during shift etc...).
The FA's situation, if I try to 'implant' into other scenarios for comparison purposes:
1. You work at retail, rather than being paid clocked in/out, you are paid only on the retail floor.
2. You work at office, rather than arriving/leaving the office, you are paid when logged onto the computer.
The FA's situation, if I try to 'implant' into other scenarios for comparison purposes:
1. You work at retail, rather than being paid clocked in/out, you are paid only on the retail floor.
2. You work at office, rather than arriving/leaving the office, you are paid when logged onto the computer.
That said, it was entirely my choice to work there (and I did eventually quit!) I could have opted for a clock-in, clock-out job somewhere else, no one forced me to work in operations.
Oct 17, 2011, 11:46 am
#152
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YVR
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Posts: 8,090
But equally, there are jobs that other activities are required outside of 'paid' hours. I once worked in a job where my contract stipulated a 40 hour week, paid lunches etc. I cannot think of one single week that I worked only 40 hours, nor one when I took all my paid breaks - because it just simply wasn't possible.
Oct 17, 2011, 2:03 pm
#155
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
i hear ya, i do the same....work 40, 60, 80 hours weekday, weeknights, weekends whenever boss requires me....but one rate................ but compared to other public transportation people it appears weird.
But equally, there are jobs that other activities are required outside of 'paid' hours. I once worked in a job where my contract stipulated a 40 hour week, paid lunches etc. I cannot think of one single week that I worked only 40 hours, nor one when I took all my paid breaks - because it just simply wasn't possible. We had operations meetings that we had to attend, either coming in early or staying late depending on your shift, to cover off two shifts (it was a 24/7 operation), we had to schedule staff meetings (discipline, training, etc.) for their scheduled on duty hours (so tough luck if that meant you had to come in on your day off to cover a discipline meeting), had to do operational shift handovers to the next manager (so each operations manager had to come in before their shift started, and stay after their shift finished, every shift), and as you were the operations manager, if something came up when you happened to be trying to sit down to eat something, tough luck, because the issue isn't going to wait an hour. That doesn't even get into the fact that if someone didn't show up (they were ill, in a car accident, stuck in traffic etc) and you couldn't get another fully qualified manager on to site, you had to stay there (at least until cover got there).
That said, it was entirely my choice to work there (and I did eventually quit!) I could have opted for a clock-in, clock-out job somewhere else, no one forced me to work in operations.
That said, it was entirely my choice to work there (and I did eventually quit!) I could have opted for a clock-in, clock-out job somewhere else, no one forced me to work in operations.
Oct 17, 2011, 5:37 pm
#157
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: Air Canada
Posts: 117
Yes, aha, so?? You are paid for this aren't you?? When you signed up for this job was this not part of the package or was this all thrust upon you as a surprise. Yada yada Yada YAWN!!! You love your passengers, yes right, you guys beatch and complain when you have to wipe down the lavatories onboard and roll your eyes when passengers push the call button. So save the BS and don't potray yourselves as the angels who have been crucified. I for one will not be looking to the flight attendants for help(I probably have to help them), half of them can hardly move let alone assist a passenger in a clamity. 
Oct 17, 2011, 7:22 pm
#158
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
I would never assume that the OP's post was 100% accurate - nor would I with anything you write, or anyone else. You state "It's clear that at least some of the of the post is outright fabrication." This leads me to believe you have facts that prove otherwise. Please state them. Some of the FA's have been willing to back-up their claims by offering to provide a T-4, that is a fact backed-up. As far as I can see, you are just saying that what was stated were lies, can you provide any back-up to your claim? (Serious question)
Right inside the original post is the claim:
...plus additional pay averaging $9,502 per year that includes Allowances (per diems, gratuities, dry cleaning, hosiery and shoe allowances)...
(If it was true that "allowances" are "pay" then it's likely that I and many other FT posters have been under reporting our "income" by thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.)
As well, under the "Hours Worked" section they go to great lengths to describe how FAs are paid during their paid working hours, yet there is no mention of the fact that they are required to work a lot of unpaid hours.
These unpaid hours are not time spent waiting for a plane to come in, or sitting in hotel room somewhere, but rather time where the employees are required to work, but are in fact not paid. A prime example is during the boarding phase of the flight where FAs are seating passengers, handing out newspapers, serving pre-flight drinks, and generally readying the plane and passengers for departure.
If you think these unpaid hours should not be included in the effective rate of pay calculations, then I presume you also agree that flight attendents should be allowed to show up for the flight any time before the cabin door is closed, as they are not getting paid for that time.
Calling reimbursements "pay" and not including the unpaid hours are to me both dishonest. The unpaid hours issue may be a "lie of ommision" but it's a lie nonetheless.
Oct 17, 2011, 7:26 pm
#159
Suspended
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Sorry I disappeared. I got called away to more pressing issues.
Right inside the original post is the claim:
That is quite simply not true. The number ($9502) may be, but "allowances" are not pay. They are reimbursements for out of pocket expenses incurred in conjuction with their employment. If AC wants to consider those allowances "pay" then they likely have a serious problem with Revenue Canada for not collecting the income taxes due on that "pay."
(If it was true that "allowances" are "pay" then it's likely that I and many other FT posters have been under reporting our "income" by thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.)
As well, under the "Hours Worked" section they go to great lengths to describe how FAs are paid during their paid working hours, yet there is no mention of the fact that they are required to work a lot of unpaid hours.
These unpaid hours are not time spent waiting for a plane to come in, or sitting in hotel room somewhere, but rather time where the employees are required to work, but are in fact not paid. A prime example is during the boarding phase of the flight where FAs are seating passengers, handing out newspapers, serving pre-flight drinks, and generally readying the plane and passengers for departure.
If you think these unpaid hours should not be included in the effective rate of pay calculations, then I presume you also agree that flight attendents should be allowed to show up for the flight any time before the cabin door is closed, as they are not getting paid for that time.
Calling reimbursements "pay" and not including the unpaid hours are to me both dishonest. The unpaid hours issue may be a "lie of ommision" but it's a lie nonetheless.
Right inside the original post is the claim:
That is quite simply not true. The number ($9502) may be, but "allowances" are not pay. They are reimbursements for out of pocket expenses incurred in conjuction with their employment. If AC wants to consider those allowances "pay" then they likely have a serious problem with Revenue Canada for not collecting the income taxes due on that "pay."
(If it was true that "allowances" are "pay" then it's likely that I and many other FT posters have been under reporting our "income" by thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.)
As well, under the "Hours Worked" section they go to great lengths to describe how FAs are paid during their paid working hours, yet there is no mention of the fact that they are required to work a lot of unpaid hours.
These unpaid hours are not time spent waiting for a plane to come in, or sitting in hotel room somewhere, but rather time where the employees are required to work, but are in fact not paid. A prime example is during the boarding phase of the flight where FAs are seating passengers, handing out newspapers, serving pre-flight drinks, and generally readying the plane and passengers for departure.
If you think these unpaid hours should not be included in the effective rate of pay calculations, then I presume you also agree that flight attendents should be allowed to show up for the flight any time before the cabin door is closed, as they are not getting paid for that time.
Calling reimbursements "pay" and not including the unpaid hours are to me both dishonest. The unpaid hours issue may be a "lie of ommision" but it's a lie nonetheless.
Some allowances can be seen as necessity.. and some seen as perks..
Oct 17, 2011, 7:29 pm
#160
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
It's a list of claims. Some, all or none of them may be factual.
But in the end, it's just a list of claims made by an anonymous individual who has since (apparently) disappeared.
Oct 17, 2011, 7:31 pm
#161
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
Oct 17, 2011, 7:33 pm
#162
Original Member
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Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
My gut reaction, chilling though it might be, is that zorn is right much more often than he is wrong.
Oct 17, 2011, 7:33 pm
#163
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Location: Calgary, Alberta
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That is nonsensical. If I stated for a fact that the earth was flat, you could easily refute it.
Yourself, and many others, have stated "they are not facts". Simply saying so does not make it true. You are doing exactly what you accuse the OP of doing. The original premise was done mostly in a bulleted fashion, take the points and refute them. Show me where / what is innacurate, outside of that, as I've stated previously, you're giving credence to the original post.
Yourself, and many others, have stated "they are not facts". Simply saying so does not make it true. You are doing exactly what you accuse the OP of doing. The original premise was done mostly in a bulleted fashion, take the points and refute them. Show me where / what is innacurate, outside of that, as I've stated previously, you're giving credence to the original post.
i am surprised that FAs are only paid from take off to landing.....most public transportation systems are paid from report in to report out (ie. you are paid deadhead with a company equipment (car, bus, van, shuttle, train), sitting in traffic congestion during shift etc...).
The FA's situation, if I try to 'implant' into other scenarios for comparison purposes:
1. You work at retail, rather than being paid clocked in/out, you are paid only on the retail floor.
2. You work at office, rather than arriving/leaving the office, you are paid when logged onto the computer.
The FA's situation, if I try to 'implant' into other scenarios for comparison purposes:
1. You work at retail, rather than being paid clocked in/out, you are paid only on the retail floor.
2. You work at office, rather than arriving/leaving the office, you are paid when logged onto the computer.
AC FAs are paid from brakes off to brakes on. I have lost track of the situation of actual time vs block time, ie, if the flight is early due to favourable conditions, do they get paid actual or scheduled time. I think that one has changed over the years in various contracts.
Many travellers don't know this.. Lets say there is a delay, would FAs get paid then? Cancellations?
Oct 17, 2011, 7:43 pm
#164
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
And of course, like everyone else, you have the right to take a different airline, a different mode of transportation, or a different job that doesn't require you to put up with FAs.
Oct 17, 2011, 7:46 pm
#165
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
Or maybe only when ringing up a sale.