Lounge access for minor with status
#31
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: YVR - Vancouver, with most winter weekends in Whistler.
Programs: Aeroplan 35K, Alaska MVP, Marriott Titanium / Lifetime Platinum, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 4,607
Really, this is likely the last place any rowdy teenager would want to drink. It's full of people old enough to be parents of teenagers who want a mostly serene environment, who have no tolerance for any hooliganism!!
Given that jilisi spends several thousand dollars with AC, IMHO AC should accomodate to his situation. Whether that's as simple as having the concierge "supervise" him in the MLL, restricting him to a specific area, or signing waivers, is up to AC. Unfortunately, AC doesn't have the right front line attitude to address any problem that develops, instead passing the buck from department to department (Westjet - Owner's Care anyone?) I wouldn't expect that everyone would get this kind of treatment, but AC needs to realize that if they want this man as a customer for likely the rest of his life, and the revenue from his current spend, then they'd better find some solutions that work for both of them.
Waiting 2 years until he's age of majority isn't an acceptable work around in my view.
You certainly have my support.
Last edited by worldtraveller73; Sep 21, 2011 at 3:17 pm
#32
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: PDX
Programs: DL DM, AS MVP 100K, Amtrak peon, Colbert Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 4,534
I think the OP should get AC to offer an alternate benefit. MLL access is very valuable in monetary terms (especially for someone traveling that frequently) and something of similar value should be provided to this SE.
#33
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,453
Well, it's not that strict here in Europe, at least in my experience. I've been to many lounges, first time was probably at 13 years old, no problem. Never even gotten any funny looks or anything... I don't know about BA lounges, they might be strict though. Got my full support, we need to stand up for ourselves! Not all teenagers are alcohol-hoarding hooligans
#34
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,731
I looked further, and in Alberta there is the Act, and also Regulations that pertain to the Act. AC clearly has a class C liquor licence for the MLL, which includeds a Traveller's lounge amoung other things. Conditions for Class C are:
The licensed premises under a Class C liquor licence must be
a club, canteen, travellers lounge or institution in which entrance
is restricted to members and their guests, residents and their guests
or on some other basis acceptable to the board.
Other classes mention minors, such as Class A specifies that any member of the public must be able to enter (E.G. a hotel). So presumably AC could make some sort of arrangement with the liquor board that Jan qualifies under the restricted entrance criteria (SE, J ticket, etc).
It's illegal under other sections to be intoxicated in a public place ( I always think of the Brocket 99 news report when I hear that phrase ), and Jan isn't there to drink anyway. He meets the entrance critera, as the premises are not open to the general public so as I see it he should be allowed to enter a MLL. Explaining the subtlies of Liquor laws and regulations to a dragon at the door probably isn't going to get him very far though.
Or just enter the MLL in drag to make you look older?
The licensed premises under a Class C liquor licence must be
a club, canteen, travellers lounge or institution in which entrance
is restricted to members and their guests, residents and their guests
or on some other basis acceptable to the board.
Other classes mention minors, such as Class A specifies that any member of the public must be able to enter (E.G. a hotel). So presumably AC could make some sort of arrangement with the liquor board that Jan qualifies under the restricted entrance criteria (SE, J ticket, etc).
It's illegal under other sections to be intoxicated in a public place ( I always think of the Brocket 99 news report when I hear that phrase ), and Jan isn't there to drink anyway. He meets the entrance critera, as the premises are not open to the general public so as I see it he should be allowed to enter a MLL. Explaining the subtlies of Liquor laws and regulations to a dragon at the door probably isn't going to get him very far though.
Or just enter the MLL in drag to make you look older?
#35
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: YYJ
Programs: AC*SE, Lifetime Bonvoy PP, Hilton D, National EE, Avis First
Posts: 673
some ideas:
1.start a letter writing campaign! everyone here who supports Jan should write Calin a letter threatening to puchase only bottom tango fares for a whole year:P
2. create a sticky in this forum that jan can post dates and times he'll need MLL access, and anyone in the same lounge at the same time can escort :P
3. jan should purchase a large trench coat, a pair of Groucho glasses (complete w/ moustach), and a pair of painters stilts. This is sure to fool even the grouchiest of dragons.
in all seriousness however, i fully support jan in his reasonable unrestricted access to MLL's. It's not rocket science to design some accommodation around this. Jan isn't the only SE minor in the system that flys alone on occasion.
1.start a letter writing campaign! everyone here who supports Jan should write Calin a letter threatening to puchase only bottom tango fares for a whole year:P
2. create a sticky in this forum that jan can post dates and times he'll need MLL access, and anyone in the same lounge at the same time can escort :P
3. jan should purchase a large trench coat, a pair of Groucho glasses (complete w/ moustach), and a pair of painters stilts. This is sure to fool even the grouchiest of dragons.
in all seriousness however, i fully support jan in his reasonable unrestricted access to MLL's. It's not rocket science to design some accommodation around this. Jan isn't the only SE minor in the system that flys alone on occasion.
#36
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: YYJ
Programs: AC*SE, Lifetime Bonvoy PP, Hilton D, National EE, Avis First
Posts: 673
http://bit.ly/nrusDt
http://bit.ly/qBwJrU
hard to believe there are that many underage 300k SE's out there...
#37
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Programs: AC*E, HH*G
Posts: 175
in fact there must be enough SE youngsters that the AC Creative department(Picturing scenes from Mad Men) have been tasked with creating materials like these:
http://bit.ly/nrusDt
http://bit.ly/qBwJrU
hard to believe there are that many underage 300k SE's out there...
http://bit.ly/nrusDt
http://bit.ly/qBwJrU
hard to believe there are that many underage 300k SE's out there...
#39
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary
Programs: AC, AA, SPG
Posts: 776
I sympathize with the OP but I wonder how many of the people suggesting he be let in have ever applied for or hold a liquor license?
I have, and besides risking the business if you break the law you can also face personal fines and charges.
How many of you would be happy if the MLL liquor license was pulled? Would you like to be the person working who faces a personal fine?
I agree there is a solution here somewhere but it's not as easy as just "ask him to stay away from the bar area". Being angry about the law is fair so the right place to direct complaints would be the gov't body that sets those laws.
I have, and besides risking the business if you break the law you can also face personal fines and charges.
How many of you would be happy if the MLL liquor license was pulled? Would you like to be the person working who faces a personal fine?
I agree there is a solution here somewhere but it's not as easy as just "ask him to stay away from the bar area". Being angry about the law is fair so the right place to direct complaints would be the gov't body that sets those laws.
#40
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: YYJ
Programs: AC*SE, Lifetime Bonvoy PP, Hilton D, National EE, Avis First
Posts: 673
I sympathize with the OP but I wonder how many of the people suggesting he be let in have ever applied for or hold a liquor license?
I have, and besides risking the business if you break the law you can also face personal fines and charges.
How many of you would be happy if the MLL liquor license was pulled? Would you like to be the person working who faces a personal fine?
I agree there is a solution here somewhere but it's not as easy as just "ask him to stay away from the bar area". Being angry about the law is fair so the right place to direct complaints would be the gov't body that sets those laws.
I have, and besides risking the business if you break the law you can also face personal fines and charges.
How many of you would be happy if the MLL liquor license was pulled? Would you like to be the person working who faces a personal fine?
I agree there is a solution here somewhere but it's not as easy as just "ask him to stay away from the bar area". Being angry about the law is fair so the right place to direct complaints would be the gov't body that sets those laws.
besides, who'd catch them in a violation? certainly wouldn't be the liquor inspector - he couldn't get through security with his little metal flip-top field clipboard. no clip board, no violation
#41
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: YYC - not the centre of the universe
Programs: AC*S100K 1MM, LH FTL, Hyatt Globalist, Accor Plat
Posts: 4,768
I sympathize with the OP but I wonder how many of the people suggesting he be let in have ever applied for or hold a liquor license?
I have, and besides risking the business if you break the law you can also face personal fines and charges.
How many of you would be happy if the MLL liquor license was pulled? Would you like to be the person working who faces a personal fine?
I agree there is a solution here somewhere but it's not as easy as just "ask him to stay away from the bar area". Being angry about the law is fair so the right place to direct complaints would be the gov't body that sets those laws.
I have, and besides risking the business if you break the law you can also face personal fines and charges.
How many of you would be happy if the MLL liquor license was pulled? Would you like to be the person working who faces a personal fine?
I agree there is a solution here somewhere but it's not as easy as just "ask him to stay away from the bar area". Being angry about the law is fair so the right place to direct complaints would be the gov't body that sets those laws.
#42
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary
Programs: AC, AA, SPG
Posts: 776
If you were a top hotel member and they usually offer a drink coupon to their elites a good hotel would offer you a different amenity to make up for the fact that they can't offer you a drink. AC should do the same. Be prepared though that you may not gain entrance to the lounge.
#43
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,731
6. For the safety of our younger guests, each lounge strictly adheres to local laws and regulations regarding the serving of alcoholic beverages. Minors must be accompanied by an adult lounge guest.
http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelin...ounges/tc.html
#44
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: YYC - not the centre of the universe
Programs: AC*S100K 1MM, LH FTL, Hyatt Globalist, Accor Plat
Posts: 4,768
Not so fast. From the MLL Terms and Conditions of access, you are not entitled to enter:
6. For the safety of our younger guests, each lounge strictly adheres to local laws and regulations regarding the serving of alcoholic beverages. Minors must be accompanied by an adult lounge guest.
http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelin...ounges/tc.html
6. For the safety of our younger guests, each lounge strictly adheres to local laws and regulations regarding the serving of alcoholic beverages. Minors must be accompanied by an adult lounge guest.
http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelin...ounges/tc.html
#45
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,731
Although the lounges not unique to SE's. Anyone with a MLL credit card can enter or so can a non status passenger on an Aeroplan J award. All of those would need to be of legal age to enter by the T&C's though.
I can't fault the agents at the gates of the MLL, they are enforcing the T&C's they are supposed to enforce and it's pretty plainly written what the rules are. I can certainly see them erring on the side of caution when it comes to possible liquor law infractions. I imagine AC never contemplated an underage SE.
I can't fault the agents at the gates of the MLL, they are enforcing the T&C's they are supposed to enforce and it's pretty plainly written what the rules are. I can certainly see them erring on the side of caution when it comes to possible liquor law infractions. I imagine AC never contemplated an underage SE.