May 30, 2013, 9:55 pm
Last edit by: jerryhung
New List of Mini-RTW 2.0 version after Oct 29th, 2014 "enhancement" (i.e. less MPM)
FAQ: List of valid and booked mini-RTW itineraries version 2.0 (post-"enhancement"
INTRO
This wiki is taken from the excellent overview in the first post of this thread by FrequentFlyer9000 and is meant as a guide to the Aeroplan "Mini-RTW" for the uninformed newbie flyer. This is a no judgment zone and newbies are welcome. In this thread, the usage of scary acronyms and complicated FlyerTalk insider-speak will be minimized.
Also, this wiki is a work in progress so please provide feedback or make wiki edits if you think something warrants it.
INFO & COMMON QUESTIONS
What is the "Mini-RTW"?
The Mini-RTW is a name given to a type of reward booking using Air Canada's Aeroplan miles. It is actually not a "round-the-world" ticket at all - it is a regular award redemption. Just as you would use 75K frequent flyer miles to go to Japan on another airline, you can use 75K to do so using Aeroplan miles. The difference is that Aeroplan allows you to "stopover" in multiple cities at no extra mileage cost, making it very attractive compared to other reward travel. It should be noted that this isn't really that much better than some other airlines. For example, Delta offers one stopover + open jaw, which is only one stopover worse than Aeroplan's deal. But many of the airlines only offer one stopover and no open jaw. So there is definitely value here.
In addition to your final destination (in which you can stay for days/weeks/months), you are allowed:
•Two stopovers in other cities (stay for days/weeks/months). You are allowed to trade one of these stopovers for an open jaw (where you land in one city, but take the next flight out of another city)
•10 segments (layovers during which you spend less than 24 hours in a given city) <-- this limit may be gone as of 2014/2015
So, disregarding the additional 10 segments, an award trip for Japan could actually look like this:
NYC > Tokyo (destination - one week) > Paris (stopover - one week) > London (stopover - one week) > NYC
You basically get three times the world exploration for the price of one. If you add on the extra layovers allowed, you can turn it into:
NYC > Los Angeles (one day) > Hawaii (one day) > Tokyo (one week) > Seoul (one day) > Hong Kong (one day) > Paris (one week) > Munich (one day) > London (one week) > Washington DC (one day) > NYC
Of course, you don't have to do the above. Spending so much time in airports can be exhausting. But the option is there for you if you want it.
How many miles is this going to cost me?
See the Award Travel chart here.
From North America to "Asia 1" countries: (effective Jan 1, 2014)
•75K in Economy
•150K in Business
•210K in First
From North America to "Europe 1" countries:
•60K in Economy
•90K in Business
•125K in First
...and so on. Check the link for other combinations. Assuming you are stopping in three cities, the city in the most "expensive" redemption zone is the zone you will have to pay for. So if you are visiting two Asia1 zone cities and one Middle East city, you will pay 80K miles rather than 75K miles since that is what the Middle East trip costs (numbers assume Economy class travel).
Which miles do I need to use? Can I use miles from other Star Alliance airlines?
You need to use Aeroplan miles. You cannot use miles from other Star Alliance members, such as United, to book this mini-RTW. However, you can book flights for the mini-RTW on any airline that is in the alliance and has the desired award seating available. You technically do not have to fly any segments on Air Canada at all.
So, what's the catch? What are the restrictions?
There is no catch. However, there are some restrictions on your itinerary. This is where things get a bit more complicated.
Want to find the new MPM after 10/29/2014?
Aeroplan City Pair mileage (new pseudo-MPM) - FlyerTalk Forums
This is no longer valid after 10/29/2014
2) If you do elect to use an open jaw instead of one of your stopovers, you must schedule the open jaw so that it is in the same "IATA zone" as either the origin or the destination city. So if you are going from NY to Japan to Europe and back to NY, the open jaw cannot be scheduled in Europe, since it is neither the origin zone or the destination zone. The open jaw also cannot be a larger distance than any two legs you are actually flying. In case you are wondering, IATA zones are as follows:
IATA 1 - The Americas (incl. Caribbean, Hawaii)
IATA 2 - Europe as far as the Ural Mountain range, Middle East & Africa
IATA 3 - Oceania, SE Asia, Far East, Sub-Continent.
Remember that if you use your open jaw at the turnaround/destination point, you will only have one stopover to use left. So you would be able to do NYC > Singapore (destination, open jaw) // Tokyo (stop) > NYC. This has one destination, one open jaw (at turnaround point), and one stopover. However, you would not be able to do this: NYC > Madrid (stop) > Singapore (destination, open jaw) // Tokyo (stop) > NYC. Because your 2 stops + 1 open jaw would be more than the two allowed.
3) You cannot land in the same city twice in any one direction. This means that on my way from NY to, let's say, Cairo, I cannot do New York > London > Paris > London > Cairo on the way there, since I would be stopping in London twice in one direction. However, I can stop in London on the way to Cairo and then again on the way back from Cairo.
4) The actual trip needs to be "bookable". It needs to follow certain rules. I won't get into too many details, but anything completely nonsensical in terms of routing is generally not going to fly. But most routes will not fall into this category. Just something to keep in mind.
Do I have to go in the same direction for every leg of the flight?
No. As an example, you can cross the Atlantic twice or cross both the Atlantic and the Pacific once (more like a real RTW trip).
How do I book this?
Assuming you have already planned out your entire itinerary to the dot and have made sure your trip is in accordance with the above restrictions, call Aeroplan and speak with a representative. Alternatively, you can try to book online for free. However, this is not always possible with more complicated routings.
What will this cost me in real cash? How can I minimize fees?
It depends on the region you travel to and which airline you fly on. In general, the more Air Canada segments you fly the more fees/taxes you will pay. Aeroplan does not collect surcharges on non-Air Canada-operated flights. So flying Air Canada internationally will cost you extra. If you use a lot of Air Canada flights in your mini-RTW, your fees could be anywhere from $150 to $400, even sometimes creeping up above $600. Lesson is to avoid AC "metal" (airplanes) if possible.
Every trip will have a $30 cost per person for booking on the phone, regardless of the itinerary.
What are the change fees if I want to change a leg or multiple legs of the trip later?
$90 for changes after original booking. If there is an involuntary change because of flight schedules changing, there is no fee charged. Note that when you make a change, the taxes/fees associated with fuel, etc. may change. They may decrease or increase depending on the previous flight and the new flight. This is independent of the $90 rebooking fee. The $90 is flat regardless of how many of the segments you change. It is not $90 per changed segment.
How do I plan this trip out? Even finding a simple award ticket can be difficult online, let alone one with 10 segments!
Good question. It is recommended that you use either the All-Nippon Airways (ANA) website (guide on how here), the KVS tool (costs money) or ExpertFlyer (costs money), or http://FliSea.com. I personally like to use KVS, but it is not newbie-friendly. It is $20 for 2 months for the "diamond" level service, and $75 for a year. Small price to pay for saving a lot of time, if you can handle the learning curve. ANA is a good free method of finding segments and many people have had plenty of success with it; FliSea is a metasearch tool that uses all of the sites above.
The trick is to do this one segment at a time. So first find NYC > LONDON for the date you want and make sure that the award class you are looking for is available (e.g. Economy low fare). Then do the next leg: LONDON > ROME. Repeat for every segment. Write down the details of each flight, calculate the mileage using the www.gcmap.com resource, and call up Aeroplan to book.
One of our Flyertalk members has built a database with all the Mini-RTW routes that have been flown in the various threads in one simple place: http://www.turnleftat.com/mini-rtw-list/
FAQ: List of valid and booked mini-RTW itineraries version 2.0 (post-"enhancement"
INTRO
This wiki is taken from the excellent overview in the first post of this thread by FrequentFlyer9000 and is meant as a guide to the Aeroplan "Mini-RTW" for the uninformed newbie flyer. This is a no judgment zone and newbies are welcome. In this thread, the usage of scary acronyms and complicated FlyerTalk insider-speak will be minimized.
Also, this wiki is a work in progress so please provide feedback or make wiki edits if you think something warrants it.
INFO & COMMON QUESTIONS
What is the "Mini-RTW"?
The Mini-RTW is a name given to a type of reward booking using Air Canada's Aeroplan miles. It is actually not a "round-the-world" ticket at all - it is a regular award redemption. Just as you would use 75K frequent flyer miles to go to Japan on another airline, you can use 75K to do so using Aeroplan miles. The difference is that Aeroplan allows you to "stopover" in multiple cities at no extra mileage cost, making it very attractive compared to other reward travel. It should be noted that this isn't really that much better than some other airlines. For example, Delta offers one stopover + open jaw, which is only one stopover worse than Aeroplan's deal. But many of the airlines only offer one stopover and no open jaw. So there is definitely value here.
In addition to your final destination (in which you can stay for days/weeks/months), you are allowed:
•Two stopovers in other cities (stay for days/weeks/months). You are allowed to trade one of these stopovers for an open jaw (where you land in one city, but take the next flight out of another city)
•10 segments (layovers during which you spend less than 24 hours in a given city) <-- this limit may be gone as of 2014/2015
So, disregarding the additional 10 segments, an award trip for Japan could actually look like this:
NYC > Tokyo (destination - one week) > Paris (stopover - one week) > London (stopover - one week) > NYC
You basically get three times the world exploration for the price of one. If you add on the extra layovers allowed, you can turn it into:
NYC > Los Angeles (one day) > Hawaii (one day) > Tokyo (one week) > Seoul (one day) > Hong Kong (one day) > Paris (one week) > Munich (one day) > London (one week) > Washington DC (one day) > NYC
Of course, you don't have to do the above. Spending so much time in airports can be exhausting. But the option is there for you if you want it.
How many miles is this going to cost me?
See the Award Travel chart here.
From North America to "Asia 1" countries: (effective Jan 1, 2014)
•75K in Economy
•150K in Business
•210K in First
From North America to "Europe 1" countries:
•60K in Economy
•90K in Business
•125K in First
...and so on. Check the link for other combinations. Assuming you are stopping in three cities, the city in the most "expensive" redemption zone is the zone you will have to pay for. So if you are visiting two Asia1 zone cities and one Middle East city, you will pay 80K miles rather than 75K miles since that is what the Middle East trip costs (numbers assume Economy class travel).
Which miles do I need to use? Can I use miles from other Star Alliance airlines?
You need to use Aeroplan miles. You cannot use miles from other Star Alliance members, such as United, to book this mini-RTW. However, you can book flights for the mini-RTW on any airline that is in the alliance and has the desired award seating available. You technically do not have to fly any segments on Air Canada at all.
So, what's the catch? What are the restrictions?
There is no catch. However, there are some restrictions on your itinerary. This is where things get a bit more complicated.
Want to find the new MPM after 10/29/2014?
Aeroplan City Pair mileage (new pseudo-MPM) - FlyerTalk Forums
This is no longer valid after 10/29/2014
1) Your itinerary must be within 5% of the total "Maximum Permitted Mileage" (MPM) for the route from the origin to the destination. Even though you are stopping in three cities by using your two stopovers and a final destination, you can define the destination as the stop city furthest away from the origin. Although certain flyers have gotten away with telling an inattentive phone rep that their final destination / "turnaround city" is one of their layover cities to increase their MPM, this does not always work. Sticking with one of your three stop cities is a safe bet.
MPM exist so that you cannot repeatedly fly around the world 10 times on your 10 segments. There is a limit to how many miles you can fly on the reward ticket. MPM guidelines can be found by using the KVS tool or by using Expert Flyer. MPM is calculated between your origin and your destination, one-way. The trips to and from your destination are calculated separately. You are allowed to overshoot this number by 5% ("MPM5"). If you can find a bookable itinerary online that has a mileage longer than the published MPM, this is a "published routing" and can be used even if it exceeds the MPM5. In KVS, navigate to the "Reference" tab, select "MPM" from the dropdown menu, and enter your city pair. MPM information is available under the Travel Information section of ExpertFlyer. It is available to all subscribers, Basic or Premium, and there is a 5-day free trial to ExpertFlyer.com that can be used.
To see if your itinerary fits your MPM limit, you can use the site here to see your total miles traveled: www.gcmap.com. Enter your airport codes separated by dashes to see the itinerary and get the total mileage (e.g. NYC - LHR - NYC). Example here.
TO READ MORE ABOUT MPM: Read this (short) document
MPM exist so that you cannot repeatedly fly around the world 10 times on your 10 segments. There is a limit to how many miles you can fly on the reward ticket. MPM guidelines can be found by using the KVS tool or by using Expert Flyer. MPM is calculated between your origin and your destination, one-way. The trips to and from your destination are calculated separately. You are allowed to overshoot this number by 5% ("MPM5"). If you can find a bookable itinerary online that has a mileage longer than the published MPM, this is a "published routing" and can be used even if it exceeds the MPM5. In KVS, navigate to the "Reference" tab, select "MPM" from the dropdown menu, and enter your city pair. MPM information is available under the Travel Information section of ExpertFlyer. It is available to all subscribers, Basic or Premium, and there is a 5-day free trial to ExpertFlyer.com that can be used.
To see if your itinerary fits your MPM limit, you can use the site here to see your total miles traveled: www.gcmap.com. Enter your airport codes separated by dashes to see the itinerary and get the total mileage (e.g. NYC - LHR - NYC). Example here.
TO READ MORE ABOUT MPM: Read this (short) document
IATA 1 - The Americas (incl. Caribbean, Hawaii)
IATA 2 - Europe as far as the Ural Mountain range, Middle East & Africa
IATA 3 - Oceania, SE Asia, Far East, Sub-Continent.
Remember that if you use your open jaw at the turnaround/destination point, you will only have one stopover to use left. So you would be able to do NYC > Singapore (destination, open jaw) // Tokyo (stop) > NYC. This has one destination, one open jaw (at turnaround point), and one stopover. However, you would not be able to do this: NYC > Madrid (stop) > Singapore (destination, open jaw) // Tokyo (stop) > NYC. Because your 2 stops + 1 open jaw would be more than the two allowed.
3) You cannot land in the same city twice in any one direction. This means that on my way from NY to, let's say, Cairo, I cannot do New York > London > Paris > London > Cairo on the way there, since I would be stopping in London twice in one direction. However, I can stop in London on the way to Cairo and then again on the way back from Cairo.
4) The actual trip needs to be "bookable". It needs to follow certain rules. I won't get into too many details, but anything completely nonsensical in terms of routing is generally not going to fly. But most routes will not fall into this category. Just something to keep in mind.
Do I have to go in the same direction for every leg of the flight?
No. As an example, you can cross the Atlantic twice or cross both the Atlantic and the Pacific once (more like a real RTW trip).
How do I book this?
Assuming you have already planned out your entire itinerary to the dot and have made sure your trip is in accordance with the above restrictions, call Aeroplan and speak with a representative. Alternatively, you can try to book online for free. However, this is not always possible with more complicated routings.
What will this cost me in real cash? How can I minimize fees?
It depends on the region you travel to and which airline you fly on. In general, the more Air Canada segments you fly the more fees/taxes you will pay. Aeroplan does not collect surcharges on non-Air Canada-operated flights. So flying Air Canada internationally will cost you extra. If you use a lot of Air Canada flights in your mini-RTW, your fees could be anywhere from $150 to $400, even sometimes creeping up above $600. Lesson is to avoid AC "metal" (airplanes) if possible.
Every trip will have a $30 cost per person for booking on the phone, regardless of the itinerary.
What are the change fees if I want to change a leg or multiple legs of the trip later?
$90 for changes after original booking. If there is an involuntary change because of flight schedules changing, there is no fee charged. Note that when you make a change, the taxes/fees associated with fuel, etc. may change. They may decrease or increase depending on the previous flight and the new flight. This is independent of the $90 rebooking fee. The $90 is flat regardless of how many of the segments you change. It is not $90 per changed segment.
How do I plan this trip out? Even finding a simple award ticket can be difficult online, let alone one with 10 segments!
Good question. It is recommended that you use either the All-Nippon Airways (ANA) website (guide on how here), the KVS tool (costs money) or ExpertFlyer (costs money), or http://FliSea.com. I personally like to use KVS, but it is not newbie-friendly. It is $20 for 2 months for the "diamond" level service, and $75 for a year. Small price to pay for saving a lot of time, if you can handle the learning curve. ANA is a good free method of finding segments and many people have had plenty of success with it; FliSea is a metasearch tool that uses all of the sites above.
The trick is to do this one segment at a time. So first find NYC > LONDON for the date you want and make sure that the award class you are looking for is available (e.g. Economy low fare). Then do the next leg: LONDON > ROME. Repeat for every segment. Write down the details of each flight, calculate the mileage using the www.gcmap.com resource, and call up Aeroplan to book.
One of our Flyertalk members has built a database with all the Mini-RTW routes that have been flown in the various threads in one simple place: http://www.turnleftat.com/mini-rtw-list/
FAQ: The Complete Newbie Guide/FAQ to the Air Canada Aeroplan Mini-RTW
Nov 8, 2017, 4:25 pm
#1636
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
YVR-YYZ-BRU-MOW-CDG-KBP
That would just be 1 way, add those all up and must be under the MPM?
I just have to build this nested paid trip I have CDG-YVR-CDG so I'm trying to sort out 2 euro trips on either end of it.
Nov 8, 2017, 4:36 pm
#1637
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM
Posts: 23,293
Thanks, that's kinda what I was looking at and nothing was really cheap. But just so that I do my math right...I need to add up all the legs to reach the turn around, then all the legs to get home, correct? So...
YVR-YYZ-BRU-MOW-CDG-KBP
That would just be 1 way, add those all up and must be under the MPM?
I just have to build this nested paid trip I have CDG-YVR-CDG so I'm trying to sort out 2 euro trips on either end of it.
YVR-YYZ-BRU-MOW-CDG-KBP
That would just be 1 way, add those all up and must be under the MPM?
I just have to build this nested paid trip I have CDG-YVR-CDG so I'm trying to sort out 2 euro trips on either end of it.
Yes, the MPM is only for one way, all segments
Nov 9, 2017, 6:42 pm
#1638
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
I've got no experience using the OPEN JAW cuz it's never really appealed to me, though this time it might. What's confused me though is in the sticky it says "the next flight out of another city".
Does that mean the open jaw isn't meant to be used as a stopover? I was thinking something like YVR-BCN drive CDG-blah blah. Does that not work?
Does that mean the open jaw isn't meant to be used as a stopover? I was thinking something like YVR-BCN drive CDG-blah blah. Does that not work?
Nov 9, 2017, 6:48 pm
#1639
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM
Posts: 23,293
I've got no experience using the OPEN JAW cuz it's never really appealed to me, though this time it might. What's confused me though is in the sticky it says "the next flight out of another city".
Does that mean the open jaw isn't meant to be used as a stopover? I was thinking something like YVR-BCN drive CDG-blah blah. Does that not work?
Does that mean the open jaw isn't meant to be used as a stopover? I was thinking something like YVR-BCN drive CDG-blah blah. Does that not work?
Nov 10, 2017, 8:52 pm
#1640
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 73
Couple more questions.
1) I'm noticing on ita matrix I'm only seeing a 21.9$ YQ from ICN-YYZ on AC. That seems remarkably low to me for AC. Is that correct?
2) I'm also noticing much higher YQ than I expected on YUL-ZRH on LX (240$) and EWR-CPH(191$)
Are all these accurate representations of the fuel surcharges I would be hit with on a reward booking or is there something I am missing
This is all in CAD
And lastly
3) Is the booking for TPE-YYZ on BR still just only 2 weeks out? As in the procedure has been to book some other means of returning from asia and then in the last two weeks hoping to switch it out for BR?
Thanks a lot!
1) I'm noticing on ita matrix I'm only seeing a 21.9$ YQ from ICN-YYZ on AC. That seems remarkably low to me for AC. Is that correct?
2) I'm also noticing much higher YQ than I expected on YUL-ZRH on LX (240$) and EWR-CPH(191$)
Are all these accurate representations of the fuel surcharges I would be hit with on a reward booking or is there something I am missing
This is all in CAD
And lastly
3) Is the booking for TPE-YYZ on BR still just only 2 weeks out? As in the procedure has been to book some other means of returning from asia and then in the last two weeks hoping to switch it out for BR?
Thanks a lot!
Nov 10, 2017, 9:32 pm
#1641
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,784
Couple more questions.
1) I'm noticing on ita matrix I'm only seeing a 21.9$ YQ from ICN-YYZ on AC. That seems remarkably low to me for AC. Is that correct?
2) I'm also noticing much higher YQ than I expected on YUL-ZRH on LX (240$) and EWR-CPH(191$)
Are all these accurate representations of the fuel surcharges I would be hit with on a reward booking or is there something I am missing
This is all in CAD
And lastly
3) Is the booking for TPE-YYZ on BR still just only 2 weeks out? As in the procedure has been to book some other means of returning from asia and then in the last two weeks hoping to switch it out for BR?
Thanks a lot!
1) I'm noticing on ita matrix I'm only seeing a 21.9$ YQ from ICN-YYZ on AC. That seems remarkably low to me for AC. Is that correct?
2) I'm also noticing much higher YQ than I expected on YUL-ZRH on LX (240$) and EWR-CPH(191$)
Are all these accurate representations of the fuel surcharges I would be hit with on a reward booking or is there something I am missing
This is all in CAD
And lastly
3) Is the booking for TPE-YYZ on BR still just only 2 weeks out? As in the procedure has been to book some other means of returning from asia and then in the last two weeks hoping to switch it out for BR?
Thanks a lot!
Mini RTW Questions
or my signature thread
I am not sure where to put it either :P
but
1. I find Matrix YQ not too useful for AP booking, just try a multi-city online as estimate. Married segment changes things, AP also calculates funny
Ex-Japan/HKG/S.Korea may have no/limited YQ by law
2. I find BR is open whenever there's space, 1 year out, just like others
It may open up MORE in the last 2 weeks (you can easily verify by searching DAILY for next 3 weeks and see if there's a pattern/trend)
Good luck
Nov 10, 2017, 9:32 pm
#1642
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 191
Can someone critique this/give suggestions on what routes would be better? I want to optimize the business class experience by going on the better planes/airlines.
YVR-ORD via UA A320
ORD-AMS via TK 777 and A321
AMS-ARN via SK 737
ARN-IST via TK 32B
IST-JNB via TK 73J and SA A320
JNB-SIN via SA A340 and SQ A330
SIN-BKK via SQ A330
TPE-BKK via EVA 777
BKK-PVG via Air China
YVR-ORD via UA A320
ORD-AMS via TK 777 and A321
AMS-ARN via SK 737
ARN-IST via TK 32B
IST-JNB via TK 73J and SA A320
JNB-SIN via SA A340 and SQ A330
SIN-BKK via SQ A330
TPE-BKK via EVA 777
BKK-PVG via Air China
Nov 10, 2017, 10:38 pm
#1643
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
1. I find Matrix YQ not too useful for AP booking, just try a multi-city online as estimate. Married segment changes things, AP also calculates funny
Ex-Japan/HKG/S.Korea may have no/limited YQ by law
2. I find BR is open whenever there's space, 1 year out, just like others
It may open up MORE in the last 2 weeks (you can easily verify by searching DAILY for next 3 weeks and see if there's a pattern/trend)
Ex-Japan/HKG/S.Korea may have no/limited YQ by law
2. I find BR is open whenever there's space, 1 year out, just like others
It may open up MORE in the last 2 weeks (you can easily verify by searching DAILY for next 3 weeks and see if there's a pattern/trend)
YVR-PDX-EWR-LHR-BKK all airlines that wouldn't incur YQ except the YVR-PDX flight.
I had status to waive domestic/transborder YQ. Also, it's such a short flight, the YQ couldn't be that bad right? AC website was showing about $15 in YQ on a purchased YVR-PDX trip.
I was hit with like $300 or so, it's been a while I don't recall the exact figure. The answer I was given was that it's charged on the whole trip. Meaning that they charge it as if ALL your flights should incur it. Which is total BS, I could've bought the flight from YVR-PDX for less than the YQ they were charging me, but that would've thrown off the MPM and not allow me to start at PDX.
The only way to know for sure is by calling. As long as you're not using LH/OS/AC just assume the YQ will be like $200, if you're using those 3 airlines, assume it'll be $400-500. Anything less and you'll be pleasantly surprised and if it's spot on, at least you planned for it. The only way to avoid it entirely is to never use any of those airlines, which for those of us living in Canada can be exceedingly difficult.
Nov 11, 2017, 6:58 am
#1644
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 73
Questions probably belong in other threads, like
Mini RTW Questions
or my signature thread
I am not sure where to put it either :P
but
1. I find Matrix YQ not too useful for AP booking, just try a multi-city online as estimate. Married segment changes things, AP also calculates funny
Ex-Japan/HKG/S.Korea may have no/limited YQ by law
2. I find BR is open whenever there's space, 1 year out, just like others
It may open up MORE in the last 2 weeks (you can easily verify by searching DAILY for next 3 weeks and see if there's a pattern/trend)
Good luck
Mini RTW Questions
or my signature thread
I am not sure where to put it either :P
but
1. I find Matrix YQ not too useful for AP booking, just try a multi-city online as estimate. Married segment changes things, AP also calculates funny
Ex-Japan/HKG/S.Korea may have no/limited YQ by law
2. I find BR is open whenever there's space, 1 year out, just like others
It may open up MORE in the last 2 weeks (you can easily verify by searching DAILY for next 3 weeks and see if there's a pattern/trend)
Good luck
Thanks a lot both you guys
Just one follow up on BR. If I see availability on NH search engine but not aeroplan, is it available for booking through aeroplan?
Nov 11, 2017, 3:36 pm
#1645
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
I don't really use the NH search, I use EF/UA/AP. I don't like using AP until the final search because it's slow and it doesn't give you the best routings plus the calendar sucks.
Once I've got all my flights picked out, I search them 1 by 1 on AP. If for some reason it doesn't show up on AP, odds are, it's not available. There's very little the agents can do (or are willing to do) in most cases to do anything the website doesn't.
Once I've got all my flights picked out, I search them 1 by 1 on AP. If for some reason it doesn't show up on AP, odds are, it's not available. There's very little the agents can do (or are willing to do) in most cases to do anything the website doesn't.
Nov 16, 2017, 10:30 pm
#1646
Join Date: Apr 2013
Programs: Yes, I belong.
Posts: 361
I’ve already booked my flights and then came upon this thread. Now I have a question! Here’s the itinerary:
YEG YVR
YVR TPE
TPE HKG (Stopover)
HKG BKK
BKK SIN (destination)
SIN PEK
PEK CPH (Stopover)
CPH EWR
EWR YYZ
YYZ YEG
I’ve been thinking about introducing an open jaw. Ideally, I would change: HKG (Stopover) BKK SIN (Destination) to HKG (open jaw) XIY CAN SIN. (XIY is Xi’An, China).
I’ve read the Aeroplan terms and it appears this change would be valid. However, after reading this thread, I now have doubts. Where in the published Terms and Conditions does it indicate that an open jaw is only permitted at origin or destination?
Edit: Here’s the term as it relates to introducing an open jaw “28.3. Intercontinental travel (travel between two continents): Two stopovers permitted in addition to the point of turnaround. One open jaw is permitted in lieu of one of the two stopovers.”
Since a stopover is inherently a place between origin and destination, and “in lieu” means “in place of”, I would think that my change would be permitted.
YEG YVR
YVR TPE
TPE HKG (Stopover)
HKG BKK
BKK SIN (destination)
SIN PEK
PEK CPH (Stopover)
CPH EWR
EWR YYZ
YYZ YEG
I’ve been thinking about introducing an open jaw. Ideally, I would change: HKG (Stopover) BKK SIN (Destination) to HKG (open jaw) XIY CAN SIN. (XIY is Xi’An, China).
I’ve read the Aeroplan terms and it appears this change would be valid. However, after reading this thread, I now have doubts. Where in the published Terms and Conditions does it indicate that an open jaw is only permitted at origin or destination?
Edit: Here’s the term as it relates to introducing an open jaw “28.3. Intercontinental travel (travel between two continents): Two stopovers permitted in addition to the point of turnaround. One open jaw is permitted in lieu of one of the two stopovers.”
Since a stopover is inherently a place between origin and destination, and “in lieu” means “in place of”, I would think that my change would be permitted.
Last edited by YEGcg; Nov 16, 2017 at 10:43 pm
Nov 16, 2017, 10:35 pm
#1647
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,917
I’ve already booked my flights and then came upon this thread. Now I have a question! Here’s the itinerary:
YEG YVR
YVR TPE
TPE HKG (Stopover)
HKG BKK
BKK SIN (destination)
SIN PEK
PEK CPH (Stopover)
CPH EWR
EWR YYZ
YYZ YEG
I’ve been thinking about introducing an open jaw. Ideally, I would change: HKG (Stopover) BKK SIN (Destination) to HKG (open jaw) XIY CAN SIN. (XIY is Xi’An, China).
I’ve read the Aeroplan terms and it appears this change would be valid. However, after reading this thread, I now have doubts. Where in the published Terms and Conditions does it indicate that an open jaw is only permitted at origin or destination?
YEG YVR
YVR TPE
TPE HKG (Stopover)
HKG BKK
BKK SIN (destination)
SIN PEK
PEK CPH (Stopover)
CPH EWR
EWR YYZ
YYZ YEG
I’ve been thinking about introducing an open jaw. Ideally, I would change: HKG (Stopover) BKK SIN (Destination) to HKG (open jaw) XIY CAN SIN. (XIY is Xi’An, China).
I’ve read the Aeroplan terms and it appears this change would be valid. However, after reading this thread, I now have doubts. Where in the published Terms and Conditions does it indicate that an open jaw is only permitted at origin or destination?
Nov 16, 2017, 10:50 pm
#1648
Join Date: Apr 2013
Programs: Yes, I belong.
Posts: 361
Also, doing a round trip to HKG adds another flight and another layover (the trip length is only 24 days, with about 55 hours in the air and 24+ hours in layovers already). And it also introduces the potential for flight delay on a non-Star Alliance airline not in this itinerary.
Nov 17, 2017, 7:48 am
#1649
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Spatially speaking or metaphysically speaking?
Programs: Aeropain: Zirconia Status; Altitude: Marianas Trench Status; UA MP: 1 Kick to the curb status
Posts: 623
Open-jaw
Not that Wikipedia can always be trusted but I seem to recall looking it up and finding the official IATA definition fits with this description:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-jaw_ticket
Having said that, there are a few reports of folks managing to get open jaw other than at the destination or origin. YMMV.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-jaw_ticket
Having said that, there are a few reports of folks managing to get open jaw other than at the destination or origin. YMMV.
Nov 18, 2017, 4:44 pm
#1650
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 48
Hi everyone,
I am thinking of doing a last mini rtw and use all my miles at the end of 2018.
Can anyone give me an idea if below trip is possible route wise and also of possible to find 4 J tickets ?
YYZ - TPE
I am thinking of doing a last mini rtw and use all my miles at the end of 2018.
Can anyone give me an idea if below trip is possible route wise and also of possible to find 4 J tickets ?
YYZ - TPE
TPE - DPS (stop)
DPS - SIN
SIN - MEL (pot)
MEL - BKK
BKK - DXB (stop)
DXB- IST
IST - YYZ
DPS - SIN
SIN - MEL (pot)
MEL - BKK
BKK - DXB (stop)
DXB- IST
IST - YYZ
Last edited by asgr81; Nov 18, 2017 at 5:29 pm Reason: changes