May 30, 2013, 9:55 pm
Last edit by: jerryhung
New List of Mini-RTW 2.0 version after Oct 29th, 2014 "enhancement" (i.e. less MPM)
FAQ: List of valid and booked mini-RTW itineraries version 2.0 (post-"enhancement"
INTRO
This wiki is taken from the excellent overview in the first post of this thread by FrequentFlyer9000 and is meant as a guide to the Aeroplan "Mini-RTW" for the uninformed newbie flyer. This is a no judgment zone and newbies are welcome. In this thread, the usage of scary acronyms and complicated FlyerTalk insider-speak will be minimized.
Also, this wiki is a work in progress so please provide feedback or make wiki edits if you think something warrants it.
INFO & COMMON QUESTIONS
What is the "Mini-RTW"?
The Mini-RTW is a name given to a type of reward booking using Air Canada's Aeroplan miles. It is actually not a "round-the-world" ticket at all - it is a regular award redemption. Just as you would use 75K frequent flyer miles to go to Japan on another airline, you can use 75K to do so using Aeroplan miles. The difference is that Aeroplan allows you to "stopover" in multiple cities at no extra mileage cost, making it very attractive compared to other reward travel. It should be noted that this isn't really that much better than some other airlines. For example, Delta offers one stopover + open jaw, which is only one stopover worse than Aeroplan's deal. But many of the airlines only offer one stopover and no open jaw. So there is definitely value here.
In addition to your final destination (in which you can stay for days/weeks/months), you are allowed:
•Two stopovers in other cities (stay for days/weeks/months). You are allowed to trade one of these stopovers for an open jaw (where you land in one city, but take the next flight out of another city)
•10 segments (layovers during which you spend less than 24 hours in a given city) <-- this limit may be gone as of 2014/2015
So, disregarding the additional 10 segments, an award trip for Japan could actually look like this:
NYC > Tokyo (destination - one week) > Paris (stopover - one week) > London (stopover - one week) > NYC
You basically get three times the world exploration for the price of one. If you add on the extra layovers allowed, you can turn it into:
NYC > Los Angeles (one day) > Hawaii (one day) > Tokyo (one week) > Seoul (one day) > Hong Kong (one day) > Paris (one week) > Munich (one day) > London (one week) > Washington DC (one day) > NYC
Of course, you don't have to do the above. Spending so much time in airports can be exhausting. But the option is there for you if you want it.
How many miles is this going to cost me?
See the Award Travel chart here.
From North America to "Asia 1" countries: (effective Jan 1, 2014)
•75K in Economy
•150K in Business
•210K in First
From North America to "Europe 1" countries:
•60K in Economy
•90K in Business
•125K in First
...and so on. Check the link for other combinations. Assuming you are stopping in three cities, the city in the most "expensive" redemption zone is the zone you will have to pay for. So if you are visiting two Asia1 zone cities and one Middle East city, you will pay 80K miles rather than 75K miles since that is what the Middle East trip costs (numbers assume Economy class travel).
Which miles do I need to use? Can I use miles from other Star Alliance airlines?
You need to use Aeroplan miles. You cannot use miles from other Star Alliance members, such as United, to book this mini-RTW. However, you can book flights for the mini-RTW on any airline that is in the alliance and has the desired award seating available. You technically do not have to fly any segments on Air Canada at all.
So, what's the catch? What are the restrictions?
There is no catch. However, there are some restrictions on your itinerary. This is where things get a bit more complicated.
Want to find the new MPM after 10/29/2014?
Aeroplan City Pair mileage (new pseudo-MPM) - FlyerTalk Forums
This is no longer valid after 10/29/2014
2) If you do elect to use an open jaw instead of one of your stopovers, you must schedule the open jaw so that it is in the same "IATA zone" as either the origin or the destination city. So if you are going from NY to Japan to Europe and back to NY, the open jaw cannot be scheduled in Europe, since it is neither the origin zone or the destination zone. The open jaw also cannot be a larger distance than any two legs you are actually flying. In case you are wondering, IATA zones are as follows:
IATA 1 - The Americas (incl. Caribbean, Hawaii)
IATA 2 - Europe as far as the Ural Mountain range, Middle East & Africa
IATA 3 - Oceania, SE Asia, Far East, Sub-Continent.
Remember that if you use your open jaw at the turnaround/destination point, you will only have one stopover to use left. So you would be able to do NYC > Singapore (destination, open jaw) // Tokyo (stop) > NYC. This has one destination, one open jaw (at turnaround point), and one stopover. However, you would not be able to do this: NYC > Madrid (stop) > Singapore (destination, open jaw) // Tokyo (stop) > NYC. Because your 2 stops + 1 open jaw would be more than the two allowed.
3) You cannot land in the same city twice in any one direction. This means that on my way from NY to, let's say, Cairo, I cannot do New York > London > Paris > London > Cairo on the way there, since I would be stopping in London twice in one direction. However, I can stop in London on the way to Cairo and then again on the way back from Cairo.
4) The actual trip needs to be "bookable". It needs to follow certain rules. I won't get into too many details, but anything completely nonsensical in terms of routing is generally not going to fly. But most routes will not fall into this category. Just something to keep in mind.
Do I have to go in the same direction for every leg of the flight?
No. As an example, you can cross the Atlantic twice or cross both the Atlantic and the Pacific once (more like a real RTW trip).
How do I book this?
Assuming you have already planned out your entire itinerary to the dot and have made sure your trip is in accordance with the above restrictions, call Aeroplan and speak with a representative. Alternatively, you can try to book online for free. However, this is not always possible with more complicated routings.
What will this cost me in real cash? How can I minimize fees?
It depends on the region you travel to and which airline you fly on. In general, the more Air Canada segments you fly the more fees/taxes you will pay. Aeroplan does not collect surcharges on non-Air Canada-operated flights. So flying Air Canada internationally will cost you extra. If you use a lot of Air Canada flights in your mini-RTW, your fees could be anywhere from $150 to $400, even sometimes creeping up above $600. Lesson is to avoid AC "metal" (airplanes) if possible.
Every trip will have a $30 cost per person for booking on the phone, regardless of the itinerary.
What are the change fees if I want to change a leg or multiple legs of the trip later?
$90 for changes after original booking. If there is an involuntary change because of flight schedules changing, there is no fee charged. Note that when you make a change, the taxes/fees associated with fuel, etc. may change. They may decrease or increase depending on the previous flight and the new flight. This is independent of the $90 rebooking fee. The $90 is flat regardless of how many of the segments you change. It is not $90 per changed segment.
How do I plan this trip out? Even finding a simple award ticket can be difficult online, let alone one with 10 segments!
Good question. It is recommended that you use either the All-Nippon Airways (ANA) website (guide on how here), the KVS tool (costs money) or ExpertFlyer (costs money), or http://FliSea.com. I personally like to use KVS, but it is not newbie-friendly. It is $20 for 2 months for the "diamond" level service, and $75 for a year. Small price to pay for saving a lot of time, if you can handle the learning curve. ANA is a good free method of finding segments and many people have had plenty of success with it; FliSea is a metasearch tool that uses all of the sites above.
The trick is to do this one segment at a time. So first find NYC > LONDON for the date you want and make sure that the award class you are looking for is available (e.g. Economy low fare). Then do the next leg: LONDON > ROME. Repeat for every segment. Write down the details of each flight, calculate the mileage using the www.gcmap.com resource, and call up Aeroplan to book.
One of our Flyertalk members has built a database with all the Mini-RTW routes that have been flown in the various threads in one simple place: http://www.turnleftat.com/mini-rtw-list/
FAQ: List of valid and booked mini-RTW itineraries version 2.0 (post-"enhancement"
INTRO
This wiki is taken from the excellent overview in the first post of this thread by FrequentFlyer9000 and is meant as a guide to the Aeroplan "Mini-RTW" for the uninformed newbie flyer. This is a no judgment zone and newbies are welcome. In this thread, the usage of scary acronyms and complicated FlyerTalk insider-speak will be minimized.
Also, this wiki is a work in progress so please provide feedback or make wiki edits if you think something warrants it.
INFO & COMMON QUESTIONS
What is the "Mini-RTW"?
The Mini-RTW is a name given to a type of reward booking using Air Canada's Aeroplan miles. It is actually not a "round-the-world" ticket at all - it is a regular award redemption. Just as you would use 75K frequent flyer miles to go to Japan on another airline, you can use 75K to do so using Aeroplan miles. The difference is that Aeroplan allows you to "stopover" in multiple cities at no extra mileage cost, making it very attractive compared to other reward travel. It should be noted that this isn't really that much better than some other airlines. For example, Delta offers one stopover + open jaw, which is only one stopover worse than Aeroplan's deal. But many of the airlines only offer one stopover and no open jaw. So there is definitely value here.
In addition to your final destination (in which you can stay for days/weeks/months), you are allowed:
•Two stopovers in other cities (stay for days/weeks/months). You are allowed to trade one of these stopovers for an open jaw (where you land in one city, but take the next flight out of another city)
•10 segments (layovers during which you spend less than 24 hours in a given city) <-- this limit may be gone as of 2014/2015
So, disregarding the additional 10 segments, an award trip for Japan could actually look like this:
NYC > Tokyo (destination - one week) > Paris (stopover - one week) > London (stopover - one week) > NYC
You basically get three times the world exploration for the price of one. If you add on the extra layovers allowed, you can turn it into:
NYC > Los Angeles (one day) > Hawaii (one day) > Tokyo (one week) > Seoul (one day) > Hong Kong (one day) > Paris (one week) > Munich (one day) > London (one week) > Washington DC (one day) > NYC
Of course, you don't have to do the above. Spending so much time in airports can be exhausting. But the option is there for you if you want it.
How many miles is this going to cost me?
See the Award Travel chart here.
From North America to "Asia 1" countries: (effective Jan 1, 2014)
•75K in Economy
•150K in Business
•210K in First
From North America to "Europe 1" countries:
•60K in Economy
•90K in Business
•125K in First
...and so on. Check the link for other combinations. Assuming you are stopping in three cities, the city in the most "expensive" redemption zone is the zone you will have to pay for. So if you are visiting two Asia1 zone cities and one Middle East city, you will pay 80K miles rather than 75K miles since that is what the Middle East trip costs (numbers assume Economy class travel).
Which miles do I need to use? Can I use miles from other Star Alliance airlines?
You need to use Aeroplan miles. You cannot use miles from other Star Alliance members, such as United, to book this mini-RTW. However, you can book flights for the mini-RTW on any airline that is in the alliance and has the desired award seating available. You technically do not have to fly any segments on Air Canada at all.
So, what's the catch? What are the restrictions?
There is no catch. However, there are some restrictions on your itinerary. This is where things get a bit more complicated.
Want to find the new MPM after 10/29/2014?
Aeroplan City Pair mileage (new pseudo-MPM) - FlyerTalk Forums
This is no longer valid after 10/29/2014
1) Your itinerary must be within 5% of the total "Maximum Permitted Mileage" (MPM) for the route from the origin to the destination. Even though you are stopping in three cities by using your two stopovers and a final destination, you can define the destination as the stop city furthest away from the origin. Although certain flyers have gotten away with telling an inattentive phone rep that their final destination / "turnaround city" is one of their layover cities to increase their MPM, this does not always work. Sticking with one of your three stop cities is a safe bet.
MPM exist so that you cannot repeatedly fly around the world 10 times on your 10 segments. There is a limit to how many miles you can fly on the reward ticket. MPM guidelines can be found by using the KVS tool or by using Expert Flyer. MPM is calculated between your origin and your destination, one-way. The trips to and from your destination are calculated separately. You are allowed to overshoot this number by 5% ("MPM5"). If you can find a bookable itinerary online that has a mileage longer than the published MPM, this is a "published routing" and can be used even if it exceeds the MPM5. In KVS, navigate to the "Reference" tab, select "MPM" from the dropdown menu, and enter your city pair. MPM information is available under the Travel Information section of ExpertFlyer. It is available to all subscribers, Basic or Premium, and there is a 5-day free trial to ExpertFlyer.com that can be used.
To see if your itinerary fits your MPM limit, you can use the site here to see your total miles traveled: www.gcmap.com. Enter your airport codes separated by dashes to see the itinerary and get the total mileage (e.g. NYC - LHR - NYC). Example here.
TO READ MORE ABOUT MPM: Read this (short) document
MPM exist so that you cannot repeatedly fly around the world 10 times on your 10 segments. There is a limit to how many miles you can fly on the reward ticket. MPM guidelines can be found by using the KVS tool or by using Expert Flyer. MPM is calculated between your origin and your destination, one-way. The trips to and from your destination are calculated separately. You are allowed to overshoot this number by 5% ("MPM5"). If you can find a bookable itinerary online that has a mileage longer than the published MPM, this is a "published routing" and can be used even if it exceeds the MPM5. In KVS, navigate to the "Reference" tab, select "MPM" from the dropdown menu, and enter your city pair. MPM information is available under the Travel Information section of ExpertFlyer. It is available to all subscribers, Basic or Premium, and there is a 5-day free trial to ExpertFlyer.com that can be used.
To see if your itinerary fits your MPM limit, you can use the site here to see your total miles traveled: www.gcmap.com. Enter your airport codes separated by dashes to see the itinerary and get the total mileage (e.g. NYC - LHR - NYC). Example here.
TO READ MORE ABOUT MPM: Read this (short) document
IATA 1 - The Americas (incl. Caribbean, Hawaii)
IATA 2 - Europe as far as the Ural Mountain range, Middle East & Africa
IATA 3 - Oceania, SE Asia, Far East, Sub-Continent.
Remember that if you use your open jaw at the turnaround/destination point, you will only have one stopover to use left. So you would be able to do NYC > Singapore (destination, open jaw) // Tokyo (stop) > NYC. This has one destination, one open jaw (at turnaround point), and one stopover. However, you would not be able to do this: NYC > Madrid (stop) > Singapore (destination, open jaw) // Tokyo (stop) > NYC. Because your 2 stops + 1 open jaw would be more than the two allowed.
3) You cannot land in the same city twice in any one direction. This means that on my way from NY to, let's say, Cairo, I cannot do New York > London > Paris > London > Cairo on the way there, since I would be stopping in London twice in one direction. However, I can stop in London on the way to Cairo and then again on the way back from Cairo.
4) The actual trip needs to be "bookable". It needs to follow certain rules. I won't get into too many details, but anything completely nonsensical in terms of routing is generally not going to fly. But most routes will not fall into this category. Just something to keep in mind.
Do I have to go in the same direction for every leg of the flight?
No. As an example, you can cross the Atlantic twice or cross both the Atlantic and the Pacific once (more like a real RTW trip).
How do I book this?
Assuming you have already planned out your entire itinerary to the dot and have made sure your trip is in accordance with the above restrictions, call Aeroplan and speak with a representative. Alternatively, you can try to book online for free. However, this is not always possible with more complicated routings.
What will this cost me in real cash? How can I minimize fees?
It depends on the region you travel to and which airline you fly on. In general, the more Air Canada segments you fly the more fees/taxes you will pay. Aeroplan does not collect surcharges on non-Air Canada-operated flights. So flying Air Canada internationally will cost you extra. If you use a lot of Air Canada flights in your mini-RTW, your fees could be anywhere from $150 to $400, even sometimes creeping up above $600. Lesson is to avoid AC "metal" (airplanes) if possible.
Every trip will have a $30 cost per person for booking on the phone, regardless of the itinerary.
What are the change fees if I want to change a leg or multiple legs of the trip later?
$90 for changes after original booking. If there is an involuntary change because of flight schedules changing, there is no fee charged. Note that when you make a change, the taxes/fees associated with fuel, etc. may change. They may decrease or increase depending on the previous flight and the new flight. This is independent of the $90 rebooking fee. The $90 is flat regardless of how many of the segments you change. It is not $90 per changed segment.
How do I plan this trip out? Even finding a simple award ticket can be difficult online, let alone one with 10 segments!
Good question. It is recommended that you use either the All-Nippon Airways (ANA) website (guide on how here), the KVS tool (costs money) or ExpertFlyer (costs money), or http://FliSea.com. I personally like to use KVS, but it is not newbie-friendly. It is $20 for 2 months for the "diamond" level service, and $75 for a year. Small price to pay for saving a lot of time, if you can handle the learning curve. ANA is a good free method of finding segments and many people have had plenty of success with it; FliSea is a metasearch tool that uses all of the sites above.
The trick is to do this one segment at a time. So first find NYC > LONDON for the date you want and make sure that the award class you are looking for is available (e.g. Economy low fare). Then do the next leg: LONDON > ROME. Repeat for every segment. Write down the details of each flight, calculate the mileage using the www.gcmap.com resource, and call up Aeroplan to book.
One of our Flyertalk members has built a database with all the Mini-RTW routes that have been flown in the various threads in one simple place: http://www.turnleftat.com/mini-rtw-list/
FAQ: The Complete Newbie Guide/FAQ to the Air Canada Aeroplan Mini-RTW
Mar 13, 2014, 10:19 am
#811
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 33
Your welcome ... I added searches for up to 3 countries as well. That should help those looking for Aus/NZ (just remember to search for places separately unless you are looking for ones that hit all the places you've listed).
You can mix and match airports and countries - such as only trips that went to SFO & Japan.
There are still bugs on the system ... the list of countries is supposed to autopopulate based on the airports ... I've no idea how it added Afghanistan ... ooops ... KHT instead of HKT ... geeze ... you'd think they'd warn you at the gate that swim trunks and scuba gear might not be the wisest attire ...
You can mix and match airports and countries - such as only trips that went to SFO & Japan.
There are still bugs on the system ... the list of countries is supposed to autopopulate based on the airports ... I've no idea how it added Afghanistan ... ooops ... KHT instead of HKT ... geeze ... you'd think they'd warn you at the gate that swim trunks and scuba gear might not be the wisest attire ...
Mar 13, 2014, 10:21 am
#812
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: YYZ
Programs: SPG/Marriott Plat, Fairmont Plat
Posts: 159
You will only trigger the 150k if you change the destination ZONE as far as I know. IE if your point of turn is PVG right now and you change it to PEK and don't even fly to PVG, I don't expect there would be any issue. But if you changed your point of turn to somewhere in Asia 2, you'd see it.
Mark
Mark
Mar 15, 2014, 8:47 am
#813
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: YYZ
Programs: SPG/Marriott Plat, Fairmont Plat
Posts: 159
I have a question regarding published route and MPM from your origin.
I have a trip from YYZ-...-BKK as destination, the outbound is all fine and good.
On the return, I originally had BKK-SIN-PEK (stopover)-YYZ, this is fine as well and within MPM.
Now I'd like to depart PEK a few days later, but the PEK-YYZ leg isn't available. However there is PEK-YVR-YYZ available. So, knowing BKK-SIN-PEK-YVR-YYZ exceeds MPM5, but, PEK-YVR-YYZ is a published route for AC, will I be able to book this? If not, what are my options to come back from PEK-YYZ? I don't mind extra connections, or can even consider flying back through europe TATL (altho minimizing YQ would be nice). Original deperature/arrival date was May21, but I'd like to push that to May 24 or 25 arriving in YYZ. Booked in J
Any help is appreciated!
I have a trip from YYZ-...-BKK as destination, the outbound is all fine and good.
On the return, I originally had BKK-SIN-PEK (stopover)-YYZ, this is fine as well and within MPM.
Now I'd like to depart PEK a few days later, but the PEK-YYZ leg isn't available. However there is PEK-YVR-YYZ available. So, knowing BKK-SIN-PEK-YVR-YYZ exceeds MPM5, but, PEK-YVR-YYZ is a published route for AC, will I be able to book this? If not, what are my options to come back from PEK-YYZ? I don't mind extra connections, or can even consider flying back through europe TATL (altho minimizing YQ would be nice). Original deperature/arrival date was May21, but I'd like to push that to May 24 or 25 arriving in YYZ. Booked in J
Any help is appreciated!
Mar 16, 2014, 3:17 am
#814
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: YVR, HKG
Programs: SPG, Nexus, Aeroplan, AMEX MR, BA Avios
Posts: 108
Will this work?
Hi everyone, have been reading the aeroplan forum for a very long time and have a question thats been biting me as i'm trying to figure out this mini RTW thing.
How come using the multi-city function prohibits me from doing select routes? (I know they cap that at 3 one way flights.. so I will have to call in i guess?)
Also, are these routes valid/feasible given my Y preference and taxes?
Route A:
YVR-LHR (stopover?)
LHR-FRA (stopover?)
FRA-HKG turnaround (but crossing pacific to come home?)
HKG-TPE (stopover?)
TPE-YVR
Route B:
YVR-NRT (stopover?)
YVR-TPE (stopover?)
TPE-HKG turnaround
HKG-LHR (stopover?)
LHR-YVR
I feel skeptical that one can stopover in that many cities. I have almost accumulated my first 75k and am fascinated how far it can take me according to this thread.
So these itineraries should both be on 75000 miles yes?
What airlines to avoid? To look for?
How come using the multi-city function prohibits me from doing select routes? (I know they cap that at 3 one way flights.. so I will have to call in i guess?)
Also, are these routes valid/feasible given my Y preference and taxes?
Route A:
YVR-LHR (stopover?)
LHR-FRA (stopover?)
FRA-HKG turnaround (but crossing pacific to come home?)
HKG-TPE (stopover?)
TPE-YVR
Route B:
YVR-NRT (stopover?)
YVR-TPE (stopover?)
TPE-HKG turnaround
HKG-LHR (stopover?)
LHR-YVR
I feel skeptical that one can stopover in that many cities. I have almost accumulated my first 75k and am fascinated how far it can take me according to this thread.
So these itineraries should both be on 75000 miles yes?
What airlines to avoid? To look for?
Last edited by jwongathon; Mar 16, 2014 at 3:30 am
Mar 16, 2014, 6:01 am
#815
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,917
You're correct: you have one stop too many in both cases. You need to drop one. Suggestion would be to do research on the cheapest low cost carriers in the area and stop in the city that is cheapest to do a side trip to one of the others you want to stop in. A good candidate is LHR - you actually don't want to fly out of LHR long haul because of the APD (which is a bogus tax that is charged in function of the distance between London and the capital of the country you are going to). If you have an Amex, it transfers very well to BA Avios, and is a great option for a side trip to LHR - so you'd arrive somewhere else in Europe, stop, and do a side trip to LHR before continuing onwards.
Mar 16, 2014, 6:59 am
#816
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC: E50K, AP: dDiamond
Posts: 963
It's also worth noting that a lot of your route is on carriers with significant scam charges. YVR-LHR and YVR-NRT are probably the worst offenders. You would be way better to fly YVR-???-LHR where ??? Is a US city so you can fly united instead of air canada. Also fly YVR-TPE with Eva, way way cheaper than air canada.
Cheers
Cheers
Mar 16, 2014, 12:09 pm
#817
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: YVR, HKG
Programs: SPG, Nexus, Aeroplan, AMEX MR, BA Avios
Posts: 108
Thanks for the insight everyone. What would be a good route for me to go from YVR to Europe and then Asia? (what's a good city to land in, and maybe I'll layover in JFK or YYZ before heading to Europe?)
So to clarify: I can stopover once while out bounding, stay in destination city, and stopover once while in bounding on return trip.
So to clarify: I can stopover once while out bounding, stay in destination city, and stopover once while in bounding on return trip.
Mar 16, 2014, 3:13 pm
#818
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,917
Thanks for the insight everyone. What would be a good route for me to go from YVR to Europe and then Asia? (what's a good city to land in, and maybe I'll layover in JFK or YYZ before heading to Europe?)
So to clarify: I can stopover once while out bounding, stay in destination city, and stopover once while in bounding on return trip.
So to clarify: I can stopover once while out bounding, stay in destination city, and stopover once while in bounding on return trip.
Mar 16, 2014, 11:10 pm
#819
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: YVR - Vancouver, with most winter weekends in Whistler.
Programs: Aeroplan 35K, Alaska MVP, Marriott Titanium / Lifetime Platinum, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 4,609
Seems a waste to me to waste one of the stops in North America when you can easily fly there from any USA airport for likely less than $500.
Connect yes = stopover no.
Apr 2, 2014, 9:32 pm
#820
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5
I am new to all of this so thank you in advance for your help.
I am looking to book travel for this summer below are the cities that I had planned but after discovering this thread I am wondering if I could get even more bang for my miles. Anyways, here are the cities that I for sure want to go but I love traveling so I am willing to add more if there is a better value for my miles.
HNL-SEA (Stay one week)
SEA-DEN (Stay 3 days)
DEN-MSP (Stay several weeks)
MSP-HNL
My questions are,
1) I should be able to book this correct as I get 2 stopovers by calling in right?
2) Can I tweak this by doing anything to increase my value per mile?
3) I am open to adding on more legs and international travel, so are there any other suggestions for maximization?
Thank you!
I am looking to book travel for this summer below are the cities that I had planned but after discovering this thread I am wondering if I could get even more bang for my miles. Anyways, here are the cities that I for sure want to go but I love traveling so I am willing to add more if there is a better value for my miles.
HNL-SEA (Stay one week)
SEA-DEN (Stay 3 days)
DEN-MSP (Stay several weeks)
MSP-HNL
My questions are,
1) I should be able to book this correct as I get 2 stopovers by calling in right?
2) Can I tweak this by doing anything to increase my value per mile?
3) I am open to adding on more legs and international travel, so are there any other suggestions for maximization?
Thank you!
Apr 23, 2014, 10:04 am
#821
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6
Is there any way to verify the routing before I begin searching for award availability and dates/airlines, etc?
This is the itinerary I'm currently planning and I THINK satisfies all the requirements, but I'm not 100% sure at the moment. Can someone help verify or point me to a resource to check and see if this might work?
YYZ
XXX - probably require a layover < 24 somewhere in the US to find a better flight to CDG?
CDG - layover < 24 hours
NRT - 1 week stopover
ICN - destination/turnaround (1 week)
HKG - 1 week stopover
WAW - layover < 24 hours
JFK - layover < 24 hours
YYZ
Thanks!
This is the itinerary I'm currently planning and I THINK satisfies all the requirements, but I'm not 100% sure at the moment. Can someone help verify or point me to a resource to check and see if this might work?
YYZ
XXX - probably require a layover < 24 somewhere in the US to find a better flight to CDG?
CDG - layover < 24 hours
NRT - 1 week stopover
ICN - destination/turnaround (1 week)
HKG - 1 week stopover
WAW - layover < 24 hours
JFK - layover < 24 hours
YYZ
Thanks!
Apr 23, 2014, 11:58 am
#822
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 6,385
Is there any way to verify the routing before I begin searching for award availability and dates/airlines, etc?
This is the itinerary I'm currently planning and I THINK satisfies all the requirements, but I'm not 100% sure at the moment. Can someone help verify or point me to a resource to check and see if this might work?
YYZ
XXX - probably require a layover < 24 somewhere in the US to find a better flight to CDG?
CDG - layover < 24 hours
NRT - 1 week stopover
ICN - destination/turnaround (1 week)
HKG - 1 week stopover
WAW - layover < 24 hours
JFK - layover < 24 hours
YYZ
Thanks!
This is the itinerary I'm currently planning and I THINK satisfies all the requirements, but I'm not 100% sure at the moment. Can someone help verify or point me to a resource to check and see if this might work?
YYZ
XXX - probably require a layover < 24 somewhere in the US to find a better flight to CDG?
CDG - layover < 24 hours
NRT - 1 week stopover
ICN - destination/turnaround (1 week)
HKG - 1 week stopover
WAW - layover < 24 hours
JFK - layover < 24 hours
YYZ
Thanks!
Apr 23, 2014, 3:49 pm
#823
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles / Basel
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 26,914
So, I'm almost embarrassed to ask here, because I should know the answer, but the concept of one stopover + one open-jaw + destination confused me a bit today with this itinerary--
MIA-ZRH
(stop)
ZRH-MXP
(destination + open-jaw)
FCO-ZRH-YUL
(stop)
YUL-YYZ-MIA
It seems to me the problem here is that you have two stopovers in addition to the destination, which is also the point of turnaround and open jaw.
So the easy solution was to fly in and out of MXP, but this still doesn't make sense to me. I I assume then that I got away with booking this: MIA-ZRH//GVA-FCO(dest)-ZRH-YUL(stop)-YYZ-MIA or is this somehow different and I am just not seeing it?
Bottom line, the open-jaw always counts as one of your stops, so when flying MIA-ZRH-MXP//FCO-YUL-(stop)-YYZ-MIA, the open-jaw counts as two stops actually, it takes away one and counts as one, leaving only one additional stopover. Or not?
MIA-ZRH
(stop)
ZRH-MXP
(destination + open-jaw)
FCO-ZRH-YUL
(stop)
YUL-YYZ-MIA
It seems to me the problem here is that you have two stopovers in addition to the destination, which is also the point of turnaround and open jaw.
So the easy solution was to fly in and out of MXP, but this still doesn't make sense to me. I I assume then that I got away with booking this: MIA-ZRH//GVA-FCO(dest)-ZRH-YUL(stop)-YYZ-MIA or is this somehow different and I am just not seeing it?
Bottom line, the open-jaw always counts as one of your stops, so when flying MIA-ZRH-MXP//FCO-YUL-(stop)-YYZ-MIA, the open-jaw counts as two stops actually, it takes away one and counts as one, leaving only one additional stopover. Or not?
Apr 23, 2014, 4:32 pm
#824
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: YVR to SEA
Posts: 2,531
An open jaw is supposed to only work at point of origin or point of turnaround, as that would maintain the two stops and destination rule - open jaw in transit shouldn't work but it can and has been done.
A fully legal itin would stop in ZRH, FCO, YUL. What you are proposing lets you spend as many days as you want in ZRH, MXP, FCO and YUL - which is why in-transit OJs really aren't legal
Your other itin basically has stops in ZRH, GVA, FCO, YUL. Had you flown the ZRH to GVA leg you wouldn't have been able to stop in GVA as that's an additional stopover. So yes I do think people get away with things.
A fully legal itin would stop in ZRH, FCO, YUL. What you are proposing lets you spend as many days as you want in ZRH, MXP, FCO and YUL - which is why in-transit OJs really aren't legal
Your other itin basically has stops in ZRH, GVA, FCO, YUL. Had you flown the ZRH to GVA leg you wouldn't have been able to stop in GVA as that's an additional stopover. So yes I do think people get away with things.
Apr 23, 2014, 8:11 pm
#825
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 6,385
So, I'm almost embarrassed to ask here, because I should know the answer, but the concept of one stopover + one open-jaw + destination confused me a bit today with this itinerary--
MIA-ZRH
(stop)
ZRH-MXP
(destination + open-jaw)
FCO-ZRH-YUL
(stop)
YUL-YYZ-MIA
It seems to me the problem here is that you have two stopovers in addition to the destination, which is also the point of turnaround and open jaw.
So the easy solution was to fly in and out of MXP, but this still doesn't make sense to me. I I assume then that I got away with booking this: MIA-ZRH//GVA-FCO(dest)-ZRH-YUL(stop)-YYZ-MIA or is this somehow different and I am just not seeing it?
Bottom line, the open-jaw always counts as one of your stops, so when flying MIA-ZRH-MXP//FCO-YUL-(stop)-YYZ-MIA, the open-jaw counts as two stops actually, it takes away one and counts as one, leaving only one additional stopover. Or not?
MIA-ZRH
(stop)
ZRH-MXP
(destination + open-jaw)
FCO-ZRH-YUL
(stop)
YUL-YYZ-MIA
It seems to me the problem here is that you have two stopovers in addition to the destination, which is also the point of turnaround and open jaw.
So the easy solution was to fly in and out of MXP, but this still doesn't make sense to me. I I assume then that I got away with booking this: MIA-ZRH//GVA-FCO(dest)-ZRH-YUL(stop)-YYZ-MIA or is this somehow different and I am just not seeing it?
Bottom line, the open-jaw always counts as one of your stops, so when flying MIA-ZRH-MXP//FCO-YUL-(stop)-YYZ-MIA, the open-jaw counts as two stops actually, it takes away one and counts as one, leaving only one additional stopover. Or not?
MIA-ZRH//GVA-FCO(dest)-ZRH-YUL(stop)-YYZ-MIA is also two stops + oj i believe, as zrh//gva is stop + oj, and yul is a stop.
MIA-ZRH-mxp//fco-yul(stop)-yyz-mia is one stop + oj.
if your openjaw doesn't involve your point of turnaround, it counts as a stopover as well.
