Are you willing to pay the person in front not to recline?
May 27, 2013, 2:55 pm
#151
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Great post.
Only thing I will add though, is that I'm tall. If you're in front of me and we're on a flight with small seat pitch you may not be able able recline, because of where my knees are.
I agree you have the right to recline, I'm just saying you might not be able to.
Only thing I will add though, is that I'm tall. If you're in front of me and we're on a flight with small seat pitch you may not be able able recline, because of where my knees are.
I agree you have the right to recline, I'm just saying you might not be able to.
I'll add a story I've told previously here on FT:
Not a seatmate, but seated directly behind me. My wife and I were flying back from EZE via Houston on CO. We were seated in coach. This is 10-hour red-eye flight.
Directly behind me was what Seinfeld calls, a "Loud Talker." Every single word of his on-going conversation was bellowed at top volume. It was also readily apparent that he was not a frequent flyer.
As soon as wheels were up, I reclined my seat, put on my headphones and prepared to try to sleep. At one point, about 20 minutes later, I got up to use the head (carefully, without pulling on the seat in front of me). When I returned Mr. Loud Talker said to his companion, "You know Continental is really great, and these seats are really great, and everything would be really great if we just had 3 more inches of legroom."
I sat back down, reclined my seat and prepared to settle in for the duration. Next thing I know, Mr. Loud Talker has thrust his knees into the back of my seat, pushing the seat forward a good couple of inches (bear in mind that my seat wasn't reclined into his knees -- he changed his position to deliberately push his knees into my back).
Well, the joke was on him. CO's 777 coach seats are particularly uncomfortable, at least on this plane. Though, without question, he thought he was making me uncomfortable and would force me to unrecline, his knees provided some sorely needed lumbar support, so I was quite content to let him keep them there, and nodded off with my lower back nicely supported by Mr. Loud Talker. However, about an hour later we hit some vicious turbulence over the Andes and, I guess, it got too uncomfortable for Mr. Loud Talker to "punish" me, and he withdrew his knees and they remained withdrawn for the rest of the flight.
Directly behind me was what Seinfeld calls, a "Loud Talker." Every single word of his on-going conversation was bellowed at top volume. It was also readily apparent that he was not a frequent flyer.
As soon as wheels were up, I reclined my seat, put on my headphones and prepared to try to sleep. At one point, about 20 minutes later, I got up to use the head (carefully, without pulling on the seat in front of me). When I returned Mr. Loud Talker said to his companion, "You know Continental is really great, and these seats are really great, and everything would be really great if we just had 3 more inches of legroom."
I sat back down, reclined my seat and prepared to settle in for the duration. Next thing I know, Mr. Loud Talker has thrust his knees into the back of my seat, pushing the seat forward a good couple of inches (bear in mind that my seat wasn't reclined into his knees -- he changed his position to deliberately push his knees into my back).
Well, the joke was on him. CO's 777 coach seats are particularly uncomfortable, at least on this plane. Though, without question, he thought he was making me uncomfortable and would force me to unrecline, his knees provided some sorely needed lumbar support, so I was quite content to let him keep them there, and nodded off with my lower back nicely supported by Mr. Loud Talker. However, about an hour later we hit some vicious turbulence over the Andes and, I guess, it got too uncomfortable for Mr. Loud Talker to "punish" me, and he withdrew his knees and they remained withdrawn for the rest of the flight.
May 27, 2013, 3:12 pm
#152
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I'm genuinely curious. Given what you've written, why should you not be regarded any differently than the Customer of Size, who can't be seated without taking up part of the seat next to him? I don't know anyone who thinks that the person seated next to a COS should just be "considerate" and share his space. Why should it be different for a person that is tall than for a person that is wide?
In my experience, airlines generally handle this situation with tact despite the strong opinions voiced on this thread. These types of situations will continue to occur as long as airlines continue to cram a lot of people into a tight space (i.e. forever).
SG
May 27, 2013, 3:12 pm
#153
Join Date: Aug 2009
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This all seems pretty simple to me.
As a passenger, you do not have any obligation to make any effort to accommodate other people. You can choose to do so, and there are certain required politenesses (like letting the window or middle passenger out if you're on the aisle and they need the bathroom), but you're only obliged to provide necessary accommodations.
I have the right to be annoyed and no more if you recline, but you have the right to be annoyed and no more if my knees are in the way. I won't intentionally put my knees in the way, but the only way I can sit comfortably on a flight of more than an hour is to put my legs straight in front of me, not to sit at an angle or splay my legs apart. If our airline makes its seat pitch too tight for normalish people (and I'm just under 6', so while I'm taller than average, I'm well within a standard deviation of normal), then that's our mutual problem, not mine alone and not yours alone.
Your seat can in theory recline, but you're subject to the space behind. If you want to guarantee lots of space in which to recline, the only way to do it is to go to the front of the bus or to find an aircraft with significantly better pitch.
This is just how it is, folks. We're all compromising by riding in economy.
As a passenger, you do not have any obligation to make any effort to accommodate other people. You can choose to do so, and there are certain required politenesses (like letting the window or middle passenger out if you're on the aisle and they need the bathroom), but you're only obliged to provide necessary accommodations.
I have the right to be annoyed and no more if you recline, but you have the right to be annoyed and no more if my knees are in the way. I won't intentionally put my knees in the way, but the only way I can sit comfortably on a flight of more than an hour is to put my legs straight in front of me, not to sit at an angle or splay my legs apart. If our airline makes its seat pitch too tight for normalish people (and I'm just under 6', so while I'm taller than average, I'm well within a standard deviation of normal), then that's our mutual problem, not mine alone and not yours alone.
Your seat can in theory recline, but you're subject to the space behind. If you want to guarantee lots of space in which to recline, the only way to do it is to go to the front of the bus or to find an aircraft with significantly better pitch.
This is just how it is, folks. We're all compromising by riding in economy.
May 27, 2013, 3:14 pm
#154
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Don't really remember. Think it has happened on Continental (pre-merger) and on US Airways.
191 cm
Because 9 times out of 10, the person in front of me can recline and I don't forcibly push my knees into their seat, sigh loudly or otherwise be an @sshat about it. It's their recline button.
191 cm
Because 9 times out of 10, the person in front of me can recline and I don't forcibly push my knees into their seat, sigh loudly or otherwise be an @sshat about it. It's their recline button.
May 27, 2013, 3:21 pm
#155
Join Date: Mar 2006
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This all seems pretty simple to me.
As a passenger, you do not have any obligation to make any effort to accommodate other people. You can choose to do so, and there are certain required politenesses (like letting the window or middle passenger out if you're on the aisle and they need the bathroom), but you're only obliged to provide necessary accommodations.
I have the right to be annoyed and no more if you recline, but you have the right to be annoyed and no more if my knees are in the way. I won't intentionally put my knees in the way, but the only way I can sit comfortably on a flight of more than an hour is to put my legs straight in front of me, not to sit at an angle or splay my legs apart. If our airline makes its seat pitch too tight for normalish people (and I'm just under 6', so while I'm taller than average, I'm well within a standard deviation of normal), then that's our mutual problem, not mine alone and not yours alone.
Your seat can in theory recline, but you're subject to the space behind. If you want to guarantee lots of space in which to recline, the only way to do it is to go to the front of the bus or to find an aircraft with significantly better pitch.
This is just how it is, folks. We're all compromising by riding in economy.
As a passenger, you do not have any obligation to make any effort to accommodate other people. You can choose to do so, and there are certain required politenesses (like letting the window or middle passenger out if you're on the aisle and they need the bathroom), but you're only obliged to provide necessary accommodations.
I have the right to be annoyed and no more if you recline, but you have the right to be annoyed and no more if my knees are in the way. I won't intentionally put my knees in the way, but the only way I can sit comfortably on a flight of more than an hour is to put my legs straight in front of me, not to sit at an angle or splay my legs apart. If our airline makes its seat pitch too tight for normalish people (and I'm just under 6', so while I'm taller than average, I'm well within a standard deviation of normal), then that's our mutual problem, not mine alone and not yours alone.
Your seat can in theory recline, but you're subject to the space behind. If you want to guarantee lots of space in which to recline, the only way to do it is to go to the front of the bus or to find an aircraft with significantly better pitch.
This is just how it is, folks. We're all compromising by riding in economy.
That exactly sums up my perspective on the issue. It isn't one sided but instead requires mutual consideration when pax are sharing the same space. We really don't have very many intrinsic rights when we ride on an airplane, and thinking that way will only lead to conflict with fellow passengers.
SG
May 27, 2013, 3:30 pm
#156
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
There is a big difference. Someone who is of 6-7 ft tall will fit just fine into an E- seat without impairing anyone else's use of the space (unlike someone who simply can't fit into a single seat). It is only when/if the person seated in front decides to use the recline button in a tight pitch situation that a conflict occurs.
In my experience, airlines generally handle this situation with tact despite the strong opinions voiced on this thread. These types of situations will continue to occur as long as airlines continue to cram a lot of people into a tight space (i.e. forever).
May 27, 2013, 3:32 pm
#157
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I've no argument with that. What happens the 10th time? If you're referring to someone who "rocket reclines," I agree with you -- that IS rude and inconsiderate.
May 27, 2013, 3:41 pm
#158
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^^^
That exactly sums up my perspective on the issue. It isn't one sided but instead requires mutual consideration when pax are sharing the same space. We really don't have very many intrinsic rights when we ride on an airplane, and thinking that way will only lead to conflict with fellow passengers.
SG
That exactly sums up my perspective on the issue. It isn't one sided but instead requires mutual consideration when pax are sharing the same space. We really don't have very many intrinsic rights when we ride on an airplane, and thinking that way will only lead to conflict with fellow passengers.
SG
May 27, 2013, 3:43 pm
#159
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Posts: 8,798
May 27, 2013, 5:10 pm
#160
Join Date: Jan 2013
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There is a big difference. Someone who is of 6-7 ft tall will fit just fine into an E- seat without impairing anyone else's use of the space (unlike someone who simply can't fit into a single seat). It is only when/if the person seated in front decides to use the recline button in a tight pitch situation that a conflict occurs.
Mark
May 27, 2013, 5:40 pm
#161
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PTravel is absolutely correct. He articulates his points in a very clear and concise manner. His viewpoints are probably those of the majority, including the airline.
Economy sucks, especially on long haul flights. I was recently on a flight from Hong Kong to Vancouver. I was travelling with my wife and our infant son (bulkhead seats). The couple behind us (Chinese) rudely told me to move my seat back up and not recline. I kindly explained that I had no intention of doing what they 'asked'. They called the FA over and she asked me if I would mind moving my seat up. I said 'Yes, I would mind.' That was the end of it (the FA explained to the couple that it was my right to recline the seat). I should note that I waited for the meal service to finish and only reclined when it was time to get some rest. And the couple behind me had their seats fully reclined. I thought they were extremely rude and totally out of order with their 'request' (more like demand).
The point is, economy travel on long haul flights is all about survival and comfort. I will do whatever I can to make sure I am comfortable within the given parameters, i.e. what the airline has provided me for the money I have paid.
If you don't like it, simple:
1. Don't fly economy
2. Pay a bit more for a bulkhead or exit row seat
3. Try and find an airline that suits your special needs (but not in economy)
4. Buy a business class ticket
5. Don't fly!!
If you are tall or obese, it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to plan your trip. I have enough on my mind when I'm travelling, the last thing I care about is the comfort of some fool behind me. I mean, sure, I don't want to see anyone suffer, but when you're jammed into economy, I think manners for certain things go out the window...and rightly so!!
FS
Economy sucks, especially on long haul flights. I was recently on a flight from Hong Kong to Vancouver. I was travelling with my wife and our infant son (bulkhead seats). The couple behind us (Chinese) rudely told me to move my seat back up and not recline. I kindly explained that I had no intention of doing what they 'asked'. They called the FA over and she asked me if I would mind moving my seat up. I said 'Yes, I would mind.' That was the end of it (the FA explained to the couple that it was my right to recline the seat). I should note that I waited for the meal service to finish and only reclined when it was time to get some rest. And the couple behind me had their seats fully reclined. I thought they were extremely rude and totally out of order with their 'request' (more like demand).
The point is, economy travel on long haul flights is all about survival and comfort. I will do whatever I can to make sure I am comfortable within the given parameters, i.e. what the airline has provided me for the money I have paid.
If you don't like it, simple:
1. Don't fly economy
2. Pay a bit more for a bulkhead or exit row seat
3. Try and find an airline that suits your special needs (but not in economy)
4. Buy a business class ticket
5. Don't fly!!
If you are tall or obese, it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to plan your trip. I have enough on my mind when I'm travelling, the last thing I care about is the comfort of some fool behind me. I mean, sure, I don't want to see anyone suffer, but when you're jammed into economy, I think manners for certain things go out the window...and rightly so!!
FS
May 27, 2013, 5:50 pm
#162
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Pardon my chuckle, especially after your use of calling someone else a hypocrite, but you just said your back and neck condition requires your seat to recline, but somehow my long legs are a "special need"? You also have other seating options to partake of. My legs are a natural condition, not a medical condition like your bad back, so maybe you should be the one paying for J then?@:-)
The hills are alive....
May 27, 2013, 5:59 pm
#163
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Anytime the pitch is so poor that reclining in front causes the seat to compress the knees of the person behind, there is only one set of rights being infringed. I have never kneed or kicked anyone. However, there have been times when an inconsiderate passenger in front has repeatedly tried to recline in a domestic UA E- seat and my knees have prevented the seat from reclining because the pitch is so tight that they are already resting against the back of the seat in front of me. The reason this topic is so silly is that it is clearly a balancing act - all passengers need to be considerate of the people they are seated near. The Airlines could do a better job of limiting potential conflict by eliminating the ability to recline when pitch falls below 32, similar to what they do for the seats in front of exit row seats.
SG
SG
Specifically PTravel's hypocritical statement that if YOU have special needs, it's not HIS problem.... Only to espouse his own special needs which he expects those behind him to deal with.
HAPPY MEDIUM!
May 27, 2013, 6:19 pm
#165
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You know, you are not in a straight jacket, your knees can shift positions and to say that your knees are stuck in that position and you cannot shift them, therefore the guy in front will not be able to recline much is pure BS.
If you are not willing to shift your knees, then you better stay seated for the entire flight, because if you get up to use the washroom or for any reason, that is the moment I will recline and if you cannot get back into your seat without a contortion act, then that really is your own problem isn't it?
Just because you are tall, does not give you the right to be an !
If you are not willing to shift your knees, then you better stay seated for the entire flight, because if you get up to use the washroom or for any reason, that is the moment I will recline and if you cannot get back into your seat without a contortion act, then that really is your own problem isn't it?
Just because you are tall, does not give you the right to be an !
CHEERS!
Last edited by tcook052; May 28, 2013 at 10:02 am Reason: edit quote