Air Canada is going to watch those coupons . . .
Mar 1, 2001, 1:25 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,392
Air Canada is going to watch those coupons . . .
From the email . . . .
There’s money in those coupons and certificates—an easy way to help us increase our profitability! A recent four-week Canada-wide audit revealed that an average of 60 coupons per day are unaccounted for. If we do the math, by applying a low fare, such as $200, over a seven-day period, the "missing" amount is approximately $84,000 per week. Multiply that amount by 52 weeks, and we’re well into the millions of dollars that rightfully belong to Air Canada. Effective February 23, Gate Agents must reconcile the number of paper and electronic ticket coupons and upgrade certificates as required, to the number of customers boarded on every flight. Discrepancies, if any, must be reported to the downline station by sending a message, identifying the customer, flight and seat number, with the request for the coupon or certificate. The agent at the arrival station should ask the in-charge flight attendant to page the customer before deplanement begins, and ask the customer to identify himself to the agent. The agent will then ask for the flight coupon or Aeroplan® upgrade certificate.
There’s money in those coupons and certificates—an easy way to help us increase our profitability! A recent four-week Canada-wide audit revealed that an average of 60 coupons per day are unaccounted for. If we do the math, by applying a low fare, such as $200, over a seven-day period, the "missing" amount is approximately $84,000 per week. Multiply that amount by 52 weeks, and we’re well into the millions of dollars that rightfully belong to Air Canada. Effective February 23, Gate Agents must reconcile the number of paper and electronic ticket coupons and upgrade certificates as required, to the number of customers boarded on every flight. Discrepancies, if any, must be reported to the downline station by sending a message, identifying the customer, flight and seat number, with the request for the coupon or certificate. The agent at the arrival station should ask the in-charge flight attendant to page the customer before deplanement begins, and ask the customer to identify himself to the agent. The agent will then ask for the flight coupon or Aeroplan® upgrade certificate.
Mar 1, 2001, 1:27 pm
#2
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: YVR
Programs: ACSEMM QRGold SPGLifetimePlat FairmontPlat HyattD AMEXCenturion SerenaPlat TalkBoard Founding Member
Posts: 8,963
Wow, that will create just great customer relations.
I can just imagine being boarded by a VIP/Concierge Agent and then the In-Charge embarassing me infront of other passengers like that.
All h*ll will break loose (started by me).
Dorian
I can just imagine being boarded by a VIP/Concierge Agent and then the In-Charge embarassing me infront of other passengers like that.
All h*ll will break loose (started by me).
Dorian
Mar 1, 2001, 1:37 pm
#3
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,452
Interesting. Then -- hypothetically speaking -- what would happen if the customer either
a - has no certicficate
or
b - has a certificate, but travelled a segment technically ineligible for upgrade
[?]
Dorian has a good point about concierge. Also then what about people denied boarding that are rebooked on the same PNR instead of being issued a ticket with JINVOL fare basis etc? Or gate upgrades owing to oversales?
[This message has been edited by Fly Boy (edited 03-01-2001).]
a - has no certicficate
or
b - has a certificate, but travelled a segment technically ineligible for upgrade
[?]
Dorian has a good point about concierge. Also then what about people denied boarding that are rebooked on the same PNR instead of being issued a ticket with JINVOL fare basis etc? Or gate upgrades owing to oversales?
[This message has been edited by Fly Boy (edited 03-01-2001).]
Mar 1, 2001, 1:39 pm
#4
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,125
Are they missing flight coupons or upgrade certificates?
Aren't flight coupons useless (from a passenger's point of view) once they have been detached from the ticket and the boarding pass issued? I thought they were just for the bean counters. I can see some getting misplaced, and considering all the paper that is used when boarding an aircraft, I am not surprised that they can't account for 60 or so at the end of the day. But surely that doesn't mean that 60 passengers flew for free that day.
Or do they want the upgrade certificates that they forgot to ask for at the gate? Dorion is right -- that would be a PR nightmare.
Either way, I don't see where they expect to reclaim millions of dollars.
Aren't flight coupons useless (from a passenger's point of view) once they have been detached from the ticket and the boarding pass issued? I thought they were just for the bean counters. I can see some getting misplaced, and considering all the paper that is used when boarding an aircraft, I am not surprised that they can't account for 60 or so at the end of the day. But surely that doesn't mean that 60 passengers flew for free that day.
Or do they want the upgrade certificates that they forgot to ask for at the gate? Dorion is right -- that would be a PR nightmare.
Either way, I don't see where they expect to reclaim millions of dollars.
Mar 1, 2001, 1:41 pm
#5
Company Representative - Air Canada
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,215
So I guess this also marks the end of those nice comp upgrades for web fares?
Interesting. Then -- hypothetically speaking -- what would happen if the customer either
a - has no certicficate
or
b - has a certificate, but travelled a segment technically ineligible for upgrade
Stupid question, simple answer
--> Make them pay the difference between the fare paid and J fare!!
Interesting. Then -- hypothetically speaking -- what would happen if the customer either
a - has no certicficate
or
b - has a certificate, but travelled a segment technically ineligible for upgrade
Stupid question, simple answer
--> Make them pay the difference between the fare paid and J fare!!
Mar 1, 2001, 1:46 pm
#6
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,452
Originally posted by StuMcIlwain:
Aren't flight coupons useless (from a passenger's point of view) once they have been detached from the ticket and the boarding pass issued?
Aren't flight coupons useless (from a passenger's point of view) once they have been detached from the ticket and the boarding pass issued?
Originally posted by Empress:
Stupid question, simple answer --> Make them pay the difference between the fare paid and J fare!!
Stupid question, simple answer --> Make them pay the difference between the fare paid and J fare!!
Mar 1, 2001, 2:05 pm
#7
Company Representative - Air Canada
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,215
It just came to my mind that I hope I am not the first on this board to be in this situation. I am flying YVR-YYZ tomorrow and upgrade cert is already collected in HKG since this is a legal connection (less than 24 hours), so when the gate agent sees that I am flying H class and no upgrade certs attached to my ticket after the plane took off, then they will assume I didn't surrender one and....
I think this whole idea is stupid and will create unnecessary embrassment for customers. AC have 1-4 chances on checking whether you have the appropiate upgrade certs and was upgraded on appropiate fare BEFORE take off:
i) check-in (if you are not using the kiosk)
ii) reservation agent who upgraded you should make sure you were flying on qualifying fare
iii) GATE AGENT - if they missed it when they take your ticket, then they are the one to be blamed.
iv) Lounge- CP lounge agent used to see whether checkin agent took the appropiate stickers once they see R class on the boarding pass but it might be harder now because AC shows J on upgrades or revenue.
If they could not catch you before take off, then it's their fault and it's not the passenger's fault especially in cases where you were upgraded on non-eligible fares, the agent who did it is to be blamed for the upgrade. Forgot to collect upgrade cert? It's the agent's fault again, they should make sure before they let you on the plane!
I think this whole idea is stupid and will create unnecessary embrassment for customers. AC have 1-4 chances on checking whether you have the appropiate upgrade certs and was upgraded on appropiate fare BEFORE take off:
i) check-in (if you are not using the kiosk)
ii) reservation agent who upgraded you should make sure you were flying on qualifying fare
iii) GATE AGENT - if they missed it when they take your ticket, then they are the one to be blamed.
iv) Lounge- CP lounge agent used to see whether checkin agent took the appropiate stickers once they see R class on the boarding pass but it might be harder now because AC shows J on upgrades or revenue.
If they could not catch you before take off, then it's their fault and it's not the passenger's fault especially in cases where you were upgraded on non-eligible fares, the agent who did it is to be blamed for the upgrade. Forgot to collect upgrade cert? It's the agent's fault again, they should make sure before they let you on the plane!
Mar 1, 2001, 2:09 pm
#8
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: MEX/YVR/YYF
Programs: AS MVP/AC75K/AM Gold/UA*S/SPG-Marriott Lifetime Titanium/Accor-FPC Gold/HHDiamond/Hyatt Exp
Posts: 5,035
Alright, after first reading this posting I was ready to get quite upset, however, it would appear that AC auditors are primarily concerned with the paper-type coupons from the 'old style' tickets not being collected which I see happen quite often at the gate. The certificate issue...well, I think that not only would this be a PR nightmare in some cases, but nearly impossible to keep track of without a lot of extra work by gate agents -> say you are on a 2 or 3 segment itinerary and they try to stop you from boarding or deplaning on the last segment!!! Good lord, if it was me and I had to tell them that my systemwide upgrade certificate was taken by the gate agent for my first flight that day, I would not be pleased! OK, I've calmed down again... 
Mar 1, 2001, 2:25 pm
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
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Posts: 10,068
Apparently it was a slow day in Montreal to come up with this idea! Its the master bureaucracy at work again...good grief. Perhaps they will invent a scanner to beep when you deplane if you have coupons or certificates with you and then proceed to search you.
Mar 1, 2001, 2:31 pm
#11
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MCI (KCMO), AC SE, AA EXP, SPG Plat, HH Dmd
Posts: 222
This seems insane, I would flip if they came on board asking for upgrade like I was a thief or a sneak! Do you know how many of my customers fly the same routes? How would you ever explain!
Could this be why in the last week I have had to sign the back of every coupon I have used (including aeroplan number)and also sign any I am using to upgrade others? Before that I can't tell you when I filled one outlast!
Could this be why in the last week I have had to sign the back of every coupon I have used (including aeroplan number)and also sign any I am using to upgrade others? Before that I can't tell you when I filled one outlast!
Mar 1, 2001, 4:39 pm
#12
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: YXU, ON Canada
Programs: AC LT E50K; AC*MM; SPG LT Gold
Posts: 4,665
backseat: where did you you get this information? We all know that the policy and the practice often diverge - that's why Empress upgrades on Websavers. Is this just a reminder about policy?
Mar 1, 2001, 4:51 pm
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Why should this surprise anyone? I noted last summer that with the shift of Aeroplan to a separate subsidiary, AC's Marketing Department must now "pay" Aeroplan for each upgrade issued. Aeroplan in turn pays this back to AC as if it is buying the upgraded — or award — seat. This mean someone has to cover the difference in fare paid and class traveled. Aeroplan was set up this way to make a profit for AC, and now AC marketing, which actually pays Aeroplan for the benefits we receive, has to financially account for all of these extra perks. Certificates now have a real dollar value to AC, and are not abstract affairs.
It will likely take quite some time for AC's staff to get their heads around this new concept, let alone us to understand it.
It will likely take quite some time for AC's staff to get their heads around this new concept, let alone us to understand it.
Mar 1, 2001, 5:07 pm
#14
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: YVR
Posts: 9,999
Like I said: AC Management Training.
AC's management specializes in them. That's why they're so good at it.
That's coming, but first they want to figure out how to inventory napkins, and those little black twist-ties on the headphone cords.
I was hoping that AC marketing would have some influence on senior management, but it appears the influence only goes the other way. I'm convinced there is now no hope for AC.
("We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company." -- Lily Tomlin, c.1975)
And finally, how many time do you think this would have to happen before someone would take all their business to Roots. Or Air Transat, for that matter.
...a PR nightmare...
Apparently it was a slow day in Montreal to come up with this idea! Its the master bureaucracy at work again...good grief. Perhaps they will invent a scanner to beep when you deplane if you have coupons or certificates with you and then proceed to search you.
now AC marketing... has to financially account for all of these extra perks.
("We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company." -- Lily Tomlin, c.1975)
And finally, how many time do you think this would have to happen before someone would take all their business to Roots. Or Air Transat, for that matter.
Mar 1, 2001, 5:13 pm
#15
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: YVR
Posts: 9,999
In another vein -- There must be a dozen ways to prevent this situation from happening in the first place, rather than trying to fix it after the fact. This policy seems specificly designed to humiliate passenger, upset AC staff, and inflict AC's will. A pound (454g) of cure is obviously better than an ounce (28g) of prevention.
The first thing they need to do is start attaching the upgrade certificate to the last flight coupon it is valid for, like CP used to.
The first thing they need to do is start attaching the upgrade certificate to the last flight coupon it is valid for, like CP used to.