FlyerGoldII

Let us do a survey comparing this to other airlines' first or business class products.
Let us look at everything, from check-in procedures, lounges, inflight service, food, beverages, seats, amenity kits, inflight entertainment etc.

(Just for my information, where can one find on a web site the recent published survey of the best airlines in USA, and world-wide, for economy, business, and first class cabins?)

I can say that the advantage (theoretical, at least) is that you get a hybrid of a business and first class product, for a business class fare (or award), with AC.

In other threads, it has been suggested that Executive First class on AC is not among the world leaders, even for international (pure) business class. For example, BA will introduce beds in business class (in addition to first class). Virgin will introduce free internet access (to all business class seats, or to all seats?). Is it Singapore or Swissair that will introduce video games at each seat (not just business class)?

Fly Boy

I have found the surveys Business Traveller magazine does to be interesting reading. They rate various products on a basis similar to the one which you suggest.

As far as I know most carriers are adding individual entertainment in all classes. This includes, audio, video, and video games.

BA is installing systems that can supprt video games, but rumour has it it will take some time for the software to be installed. BA seats are also starting to include telephones, which IMO are long overdue. There has also been some discussion of possible gambling devices... Generally speaking, these sort of trinkets (with the exception of gambling ) are becoming a sort of industry standard among the major carriers. Also note: Virgin now has bed-type seats in business class, but they sit at an angle (seat is still flat however) likely among several reasons for BA labelling theirs as "fully-flat" beds.

[This message has been edited by Fly Boy (edited 04-01-2001).]

flymike

True BA has "beds" but if you are more than 6' and have broad shoulders.
You will have a hell of a flight.
There is NO WAY I can fit into BA club.

And Virgin Upperclass.....
The seat tilts in a angle, not very confy.
And your feet will be on the floor (under the person infront)
But the biggest problem is when you'r on the floor, you can hear Everything.

Engin noise, evertime somebody walk pass you. And it is drafty.

Give me a "Old" seat any day.....

AC*SE

The newer 340's and all the 330's have structures in place to put individual video in Y. That is going to be and expensive proposition, however, and I think there are probably some higher priorities, just at the moment.

mtacchi

Cathay has Video and arcade games for ALL in the seat backs. I have to agree with the above post, I would rather have a big cushy chair with good recline and comfort than a sleeper bed. Too much distraction.

Fly Boy

Not everyone is over 6 feet tall. From what I have heard, by and large the BA seats are seen as a substantial improvement over the Cradle Seat. Agreed: they are not as long as the First seats, but IMO that should be the angle from which we examine the seat's faults, as opposed to the concept of a bed itself. First beds are more than large enough to accommodte most tall/large build passengers.

As for entertainment etc, it is clear AC needs to overhaul both J an Y products. I presume they would start with J as that is where more passengers tend to excercise discretion based on product over price. That being said, AC will have a great deal of difficulty filling their Hospitality Class on international flights if they leave it as is for much longer.

YVR Cockroach

There may be some 747s who don't have them and some leased A340s too. That aside, the controls in the economy seats are fixed into the armrest. They're difficult to use for game playing if one doesn't have short forearms.

The 6' bed may be problematic. One constituent of the BA high yield market in the U.K. is the investment banking sector. While only 25% of the U.K. male populace may be 6' or taller, many in the investment banking community are taller than 6'. I wonder if BA has thought about that?

Fly Boy

Let us not forget in this discussion that the New Club World seat can be used as a conventional seat, and reclined. It does not *have* to be reclined all the way and used as a bed. When used as a conventional seat, it has more legroom than the old Cradle Seats.

FlyerAl

AC should install personal video in Y. They can certainly afford it now that they control over 80% of the Canadian market. If other airlines in North America can pull it off (CO, UA, US) so can AC!

AC*SE

18 months ago, I would have said yes.

But the war chest is pretty much leveraged now in coping with the long term debt acquired from CP, and the financing packages for all the new a/c deliveries.