CloudsBelow

My GF was on AC 092 last night (YYZ-SCL). Scheduled departure 1155p, arrival in SCL at 1215p.
AC delayed departure 2 hours!! to accommodate 30 late arriving pax from YUL (AC 429 delayed as well).
I’m very frustrated for a few reasons. My GF will now mis-connect in SCL to her final destination causing a lot of hassle for her on arrival.
Do FTs agree / disagree with my frustrations? :
1. 2 hours is just too long to hold a plane for late inbound. AC has to know not everyone’s final destination is SCL/EZE specific
2. My GF origin was YOW. We had the option of 1h15m connection in YYZ but selected an earlier, MORE EXPENSIVE option to have a 2h30 connection in YYZ for protection
3. AC boarded the plane as scheduled for the 1155p departure while knowing they would sit there for an additional 2 hours waiting (I know this as ac.com was updated before she was told of the delay)
4. I feel AC did this as they knew they had the slack in EZE (plane sits in EZE for 5 hours before return). I feel they would have rolled on time if the turnaround was tight
Before getting flamed hard, I am cognizant of YUL people wanting to get to destination as well. Just wish either a) they would take the earlier flight as we paid for, or b) AC would INCREASE MCT for winter OPS
Remember, there are likely more than 30 PAX who will end up mis-connecting in SCL and end up overnighting there as the 30 PAX would have had to in YYZ. Seems to reward those who cut it tight at the expense of others. Would AC delay departure if 30 PAX decided to wait right till the 60 min checkin time and were delayed going through security? Not likely!

morphius909

2 hours is just plane ridiculous. 20-30 minutes okay max, but 2 hours, forget it.

I've take the same flight (to EZE) and the first thing you want to do is fall asleep since it's already midnight. Pushing it another 2 hours is just plain ridiculous.

I would complain complain complain.

I don't know what Operational policies are deployed, hopefully Andrew can pipe in when he's back.

CloudsBelow

Thank you. She's Seated at 11p. Pushback at 0145a and then an 11 hour flight!! On a clear, quiet night. You can accept it in LHR right now (for example). Crazy stroms do happen. That'S life. But to frustrate, delay and inconvenience 320 PAX for 2 hours after midnight to help 30 make a connection is just asinine.

morphius909

I suppose AC was in a Holiday Mood that night *shrugs*

On the other side of things, I hope those 30 PAX were VERY grateful for the inconvenience their flight (I say their flight, because technically those 30 didn't cause the original flight to be delayed in the first place) caused on the 100s of passengers.

At least your GF got to where she is now! )

mtensioners

how would you like to spend 8 hours in LHR because the YUL HR plane hit a bird on landing and they took the LHR YYZ plane and gave it to the YUL bound people and we sat for 8 hours!!!!!! No apologies no explanation just sit and wait.

emcampbe

Pushback at 1:45am at YYZ? Isn't there still a curfew?

acysb87

Next time the a/c will have a mechanical and be delayed 45 minutes ,have another delay and finally be on their way.You were told the truth.
30 late pax arriving YUL could have connected somewhere from Europe ,being delayed for days.So many what ifs.

I have been delayed many times YYZ/BGI due to cnx pax be it weather in YYZ or YUL/YOW.

Goes with the holiday season.If in a hurry,don't go shopping

Scoop

Complain complain complain. And then enjoy your 15% off code.

rehoult

Yup. But the Airport Manager (or delegate) can waive it, and normally does in situations like this. There is a rulebook on what conditions must be present for a waiver and what type of planes are eligible on the GTAA website somewhere.

YYZC2

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

CX has a 01:30 departure, so does BR and sometimes KE...

keithguy

The turnaround at EZE is only 2 hours. There is slack in the flying time vs. scheduled flying time and sometimes they can turn the plane quickly at SCL (both directions) to make up time.

AC probably didn't want to pay for overnight expenses at YYZ for the misconnect, and possibly have to reroute on other airlines.

This flight is pretty bad for on time performance. It's probably better to book a longer connection at SCL vs. at YYZ.

rehoult

GTAA has a set budget of flights it is allowed to schedule after 00:30 over the course of a year, so there is tiresome process for getting pre-approval to schedule a flight after 00:30, which CX has gone through.

There is then a separate (much faster) process for operational delays to flights that are scheduled before 00:30, but push late for some reason. In such cases the airline has to contact GTAA Operations and get approval for the delay. GTAA can (and has) said no, and the airlines have no choice but to then delay the flight until 6:30 am.

The fine for breaking curfew without authorization is 16 times the landing fee (based on MTOW), which is high enough to deter most people.

global happy traveller

i believe YYZ has waived midnight curfew now, there are several flights to south america that either lands or departs during midnight period (12am - 5am).

usually when there are more than 10-20 pax connecting, airlines will hold (this is not just AC). The threshold really depends on the airline and what availability they have to book into the next day. Should they have known, they should have delayed the boarding process rather than making people wait inside the plane.

however, i do agree that the minimum connection time is getting ridiclious. seems like a conspiracy that they dont want us to use the MLL during transit.

From personal experience AC has been notorious for hold backs. I recall (when there was a 747-400) they made us wait 4:30 on a flight from YYZ to YVR, while the next 3 flights (which I believe were 767-300) took off. Then they delay the subsequent flight to NRT for 3:45 missing my SQ connection. That similar situation happened again in 2008 in the opposite direction and 2010 with HKG-YVR connecting to the 16:15ish A321 flight from YVR to YYZ, we were delayed about 2 hours waiting for HKG pax to board.

fin 645

I've had a similar experience with AC, where they hold a flight in YYZ for their own cnx pax, but have no interest in the impact at the final destination since any connections there become another airline's problem.

rehoult

Noooooooo. Most certainly not. The number of night flights allowed per year is set by Transport Canada; if GTAA had its way, there would be no limits on the number of night flights.