2011 Air Canada Top Tier Program - Modifications to Benefits
Dec 14, 2010, 6:27 am
#91
formerly known as DeltaNYC
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: YYZ, mostly...
Programs: AC SE100K / BA Bronze / Marriott Ambassador (LT Plat) / Hilton Diamond / IHG Plat
Posts: 1,704
While the current program still seems like a huge devaluation of benefits, kudos to the management for listening to the customer base and taking quick action. And thanks to Andrew & Ben for all their help in maintaining the communication channels open.
And I continue to be amazed by the power of social media every day.
And I continue to be amazed by the power of social media every day.
Dec 14, 2010, 6:34 am
#92
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Across the pond
Programs: Aeroplan SE, Goldpassport Platinum, Avis Something, Hertz Gold
Posts: 750
Dear Andrew,
Thanks for these prompt changes. They are definitely a step in the right direction.
I think we have all seen AC go from "we conducted extensive research to come up with these enhancements" to "we will be monitoring trends as they appear and update the program" to actually making some changes (and actions speak louder than words). I am surprised that your team was actually able to see trends in just 4 days after the announcement.
I want to thank you for listening to what all of us had to say and at least start modifying the offering. However much still needs to be done. I would recommend that the following changes still be considered strongly:
a) Give Es the status bonus as default (dont have them pick between 10 credits and the status bonus)
b) Please realign threshold bonuses (we are already giving up on one threshold level so maybe the thresholds for SE can be realigned to give credits that are closer to what we get today. An example would be
20k - 15 credits
40k - 35 credits
60k - 15 credits
80k - 35 credits)
This gives us the incentive to keep flying AC a lot more
Thanks for these prompt changes. They are definitely a step in the right direction.
I think we have all seen AC go from "we conducted extensive research to come up with these enhancements" to "we will be monitoring trends as they appear and update the program" to actually making some changes (and actions speak louder than words). I am surprised that your team was actually able to see trends in just 4 days after the announcement.
I want to thank you for listening to what all of us had to say and at least start modifying the offering. However much still needs to be done. I would recommend that the following changes still be considered strongly:
a) Give Es the status bonus as default (dont have them pick between 10 credits and the status bonus)
b) Please realign threshold bonuses (we are already giving up on one threshold level so maybe the thresholds for SE can be realigned to give credits that are closer to what we get today. An example would be
20k - 15 credits
40k - 35 credits
60k - 15 credits
80k - 35 credits)
This gives us the incentive to keep flying AC a lot more
Dec 14, 2010, 6:38 am
#93
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Programs: AC E, SPG Plat, FPC Plat
Posts: 35
Couldn't agree more
Actually, I am not impressed at all. The way I see it, AC tired to get away with a fast one, and only retreated because they got caught out. The very fact they presented this as "enhancements" in the first place is proof they were being deliberately deceptive.
For me, this is still the last straw. AC clearly has no respect for my business, so I will no longer reward AC with my business. I stand by my previous comments and will move on to other options for both airline travel & loyalty programs.
Actions speak louder than words. I just booked four flights on Westjet to Florida for our next spring break family vacation. I just booked weekend getaway on BA to Europe for Mrs. Flews and myself in January. I am using Porter for all my weekly business jaunts to Toronto. And I will be flying El Al or UA on my business trip to Israel in February.
Thanks to my credit cards, I have access to lounges on every single flight - which is more than I can say when I was in Miami on the weekend, where AC provides zip lounge access.
As I said in my initial post, many of us do have choices; and for me, AC is no longer one of them. The fact that we (four paying passengers) were treated horribly by AC representatives on my trip back from Florida this weekend just reinforces my decision, and makes my new choices all that easier.
Cheers,
For me, this is still the last straw. AC clearly has no respect for my business, so I will no longer reward AC with my business. I stand by my previous comments and will move on to other options for both airline travel & loyalty programs.
Actions speak louder than words. I just booked four flights on Westjet to Florida for our next spring break family vacation. I just booked weekend getaway on BA to Europe for Mrs. Flews and myself in January. I am using Porter for all my weekly business jaunts to Toronto. And I will be flying El Al or UA on my business trip to Israel in February.
Thanks to my credit cards, I have access to lounges on every single flight - which is more than I can say when I was in Miami on the weekend, where AC provides zip lounge access.
As I said in my initial post, many of us do have choices; and for me, AC is no longer one of them. The fact that we (four paying passengers) were treated horribly by AC representatives on my trip back from Florida this weekend just reinforces my decision, and makes my new choices all that easier.
Cheers,
Dec 14, 2010, 6:39 am
#94
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: LGA
Programs: DL Gold
Posts: 147
Thanks guys
Thanks Andrew, Ben & AC for making these changes.
While I actually didn't think the new program was all that bad for me (I don't fly that much internationally in Y), I am pleased that AC was quick to respond when it's loyal base was upset with some changes. It's refreshing and welcomed!
Also, Andrew, a second thanks to you for hanging in there and doing your best to explain the rationale behind these changes and subsequent modifications. You are a great link between AC and it's frequent flyers / best customers.
While I actually didn't think the new program was all that bad for me (I don't fly that much internationally in Y), I am pleased that AC was quick to respond when it's loyal base was upset with some changes. It's refreshing and welcomed!
Also, Andrew, a second thanks to you for hanging in there and doing your best to explain the rationale behind these changes and subsequent modifications. You are a great link between AC and it's frequent flyers / best customers.
Dec 14, 2010, 6:44 am
#96
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: YWG
Programs: Free Agent
Posts: 1,478
Dec 14, 2010, 6:51 am
#97
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 379
This still fails to address the crux of the problem, that Es have been screwed over by having a very small initial set of eCredits (slightly more than Ps) and have to decide between an additional 10 credits or elite bonus miles. No other tier has this either/or.
So now Es may eek out the equivalent of 2 SSWUs from their benefit kit, but at the expense of the elite mileage bonus. And they still lose a pair of SWUs or four NAUs, which in essence is still a reduction of almost half over last year's benefits even before counting the mileage option.
Not to mention that December threshold upgrades will still be paper certs with less than 2-months validity if that when these finally arrive. (As will those "bonus" certs that will go out with kits for those who cannot order until January.)
So now Es may eek out the equivalent of 2 SSWUs from their benefit kit, but at the expense of the elite mileage bonus. And they still lose a pair of SWUs or four NAUs, which in essence is still a reduction of almost half over last year's benefits even before counting the mileage option.
Not to mention that December threshold upgrades will still be paper certs with less than 2-months validity if that when these finally arrive. (As will those "bonus" certs that will go out with kits for those who cannot order until January.)
Dec 14, 2010, 6:54 am
#98
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 379
Major reduction for Elite members and doesn't make me stop from leaving AC/AP. The over 50% reduction in UG does not make it worthy to stay with AP after a decade or how many years it has been...
Dec 14, 2010, 7:04 am
#99
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 379
Compare that to 2010 -- 1x SSWU, 2x SWU, 4 X NAU... + 50% bonus.^^^
Need I say more?
Dec 14, 2010, 7:14 am
#100
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE100K, HH G
Posts: 2,454
Dec 14, 2010, 7:24 am
#101
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Left
Programs: FT
Posts: 7,285
from my look, i am not sure this is enough of an improvement to justify dedication of all my business to AC.
as much as AC has done well to fix this quickly, i am surprised they under estimated the reaction in the first place
i think this is more problematic of this business.
Dec 14, 2010, 7:26 am
#102
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: YOW
Programs: AC-SE100K, AC-3MM, Marriott- LT Titanium, SPG RIP
Posts: 2,958
I appreciate that AC has listened..
Ben- can I suggest inviting a cross-section of FTers to a small focus group next time any kind of major changes are made? It maybe could have avoided the debacle of the last few days...I am sure there would be many willing participants here and it could be done in person or electronically....
I like the enhancements just announced by Andrew.
Plumber
Ben- can I suggest inviting a cross-section of FTers to a small focus group next time any kind of major changes are made? It maybe could have avoided the debacle of the last few days...I am sure there would be many willing participants here and it could be done in person or electronically....
I like the enhancements just announced by Andrew.
Plumber
Dec 14, 2010, 7:27 am
#103
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; BonvoyPlat; IHGPlat/Amb; HiltonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesPlat
Posts: 38,186
Have they not already done that? L passes have rewarded revenue by providing almost universal upgrading and bonus certs or now credits. Purchased J and C yield a COS bonus that makes earning status up to 20% easier meaning one only has to fly 80K to earn SE, or less than 30K to earn E. The changes introduced for next year continue to favour those paying higher fares (fair enough) so please stop the belly-aching about revenue-based recognition.
Dec 14, 2010, 7:43 am
#104
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: A3*G AC*nobody TK*nobody
Posts: 1,967
You make a valid point.
Given the positive reaction of this community, the modifications are peceived as material changes to the 2011 Aeroplan top tier frequent flyer program.
In that situation, AC/AE should allow those who wish to change their choices based on new information to do so.
Given the positive reaction of this community, the modifications are peceived as material changes to the 2011 Aeroplan top tier frequent flyer program.
In that situation, AC/AE should allow those who wish to change their choices based on new information to do so.
IMHO, in group 1 (E) it would be nice to pick 50%+15ec+10ec
This still fails to address the crux of the problem, that Es have been screwed over by having a very small initial set of eCredits (slightly more than Ps) and have to decide between an additional 10 credits or elite bonus miles. No other tier has this either/or.
So now Es may eek out the equivalent of 2 SSWUs from their benefit kit, but at the expense of the elite mileage bonus. And they still lose a pair of SWUs or four NAUs, which in essence is still a reduction of almost half over last year's benefits even before counting the mileage option.
Not to mention that December threshold upgrades will still be paper certs with less than 2-months validity if that when these finally arrive. (As will those "bonus" certs that will go out with kits for those who cannot order until January.)
So now Es may eek out the equivalent of 2 SSWUs from their benefit kit, but at the expense of the elite mileage bonus. And they still lose a pair of SWUs or four NAUs, which in essence is still a reduction of almost half over last year's benefits even before counting the mileage option.
Not to mention that December threshold upgrades will still be paper certs with less than 2-months validity if that when these finally arrive. (As will those "bonus" certs that will go out with kits for those who cannot order until January.)
If one look closely, for E even maxed out at 35 ec (and give up 50% bonus), it is still a downgrade compare to 2010. It is slightly better.. but still.
Here I thanks Andrew the messenger to keep us posted. But the thanks to AC making minor changes is still somewhat debatable IMHO.
I appreciate that AC has listened..
Ben- can I suggest inviting a cross-section of FTers to a small focus group next time any kind of major changes are made? It maybe could have avoided the debacle of the last few days...I am sure there would be many willing participants here and it could be done in person or electronically....
I like the enhancements just announced by Andrew.
Plumber
Ben- can I suggest inviting a cross-section of FTers to a small focus group next time any kind of major changes are made? It maybe could have avoided the debacle of the last few days...I am sure there would be many willing participants here and it could be done in person or electronically....
I like the enhancements just announced by Andrew.
Plumber
A focus group at FT is a very good idea. And to save cost, AC don't even need to paid for meals, and just use the forum here and they can get all the feedback. Or if they chose to have a smaller group, I am sure FT can have a private forum for selected members only.
Last edited by Away from YYZ; Dec 14, 2010 at 7:51 am
Dec 14, 2010, 7:48 am
#105
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Programs: AE, SPG, HH
Posts: 340
This still fails to address the crux of the problem, that Es have been screwed over by having a very small initial set of eCredits (slightly more than Ps) and have to decide between an additional 10 credits or elite bonus miles. No other tier has this either/or.
So now Es may eek out the equivalent of 2 SSWUs from their benefit kit, but at the expense of the elite mileage bonus. And they still lose a pair of SWUs or four NAUs, which in essence is still a reduction of almost half over last year's benefits even before counting the mileage option.
Not to mention that December threshold upgrades will still be paper certs with less than 2-months validity if that when these finally arrive. (As will those "bonus" certs that will go out with kits for those who cannot order until January.)
So now Es may eek out the equivalent of 2 SSWUs from their benefit kit, but at the expense of the elite mileage bonus. And they still lose a pair of SWUs or four NAUs, which in essence is still a reduction of almost half over last year's benefits even before counting the mileage option.
Not to mention that December threshold upgrades will still be paper certs with less than 2-months validity if that when these finally arrive. (As will those "bonus" certs that will go out with kits for those who cannot order until January.)
No more probs. As it stands, you still need more credits to upgrade unless you want a higher fare, you're losing your tier bonus just to secure a return upgrade to Asia and have no "equivalent" SWU. Then again I've been told it's not a 1-for-1 comparison so those that didn't pick the tier bonus aren't really losing it nor are they losing their SWUs
Anyway, good on AC for listening to the feedback and it's not the perfect appeasement but I'm guessing it's not gonna get any better. Will it change my decision on reducing my AC flying? Well it softened my position a bit but it's still a case of the carrot ahead of the donkey and we're still the donkey! Guess who's holding the carrot?