2011 Air Canada Top Tier Program - Modifications to Benefits
Dec 14, 2010, 2:34 am
#77
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: FRA
Programs: AC SE 1MM, UA 1K, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, Marriott Gold Elite, Hertz PC
Posts: 2,935
+1
I personally don´t favour a FFP solely based on revenue, while it provides rewards to high spending customers it doesn´t offers many incentives to regular FFs and we´ll likely face the same dilemma we´ve seen in the last couple of days.
I think AC should carefully explore ways to award and offer an incentive to those spending a lot of money / buying higher fares, three opportunities I see are:
1) award additional upgrade credits for buying int´l Latitude / Exec. First fares, e.g.
3 upgrade credits for each int´l Latitude segment
4 upgrade credits for each int´l Exec. First segment
2) higher COS bonuses for Latitude / Exec. Class/First fares, e.g.
125% for Latitude fares
150% for Exec. Class / Exec. First lowest
200% for Exec. First Flexible
3) create a tier above SE based on revenue, but don´t devaluate the E/SE program in return. Benefits could include IKK without capacity controls, for instance.
I personally don´t favour a FFP solely based on revenue, while it provides rewards to high spending customers it doesn´t offers many incentives to regular FFs and we´ll likely face the same dilemma we´ve seen in the last couple of days.
I think AC should carefully explore ways to award and offer an incentive to those spending a lot of money / buying higher fares, three opportunities I see are:
1) award additional upgrade credits for buying int´l Latitude / Exec. First fares, e.g.
3 upgrade credits for each int´l Latitude segment
4 upgrade credits for each int´l Exec. First segment
2) higher COS bonuses for Latitude / Exec. Class/First fares, e.g.
125% for Latitude fares
150% for Exec. Class / Exec. First lowest
200% for Exec. First Flexible
3) create a tier above SE based on revenue, but don´t devaluate the E/SE program in return. Benefits could include IKK without capacity controls, for instance.
Dec 14, 2010, 2:34 am
#78
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE100K, HH G
Posts: 2,454
Thanks to Ben and Andrew for listening to what we said, and responding quickly.
Quick math tells me that at the SE level (100K miles in 2011) I'll be able to upgrade four R/T T+ long-haul fares (with 10 credits to spare), and I'm pretty satisfied with that.
The E level is less generous but even those flying the minimum 35K can now get at least a R/T long-haul upgrade from T+.
Finally, the COS bonuses make more sense and should encourage purchase of higher fares, with more revenue to AC. (Sadly, for me personally, my travel policy only gives me the option of T+ in general ...)
Quick math tells me that at the SE level (100K miles in 2011) I'll be able to upgrade four R/T T+ long-haul fares (with 10 credits to spare), and I'm pretty satisfied with that.
The E level is less generous but even those flying the minimum 35K can now get at least a R/T long-haul upgrade from T+.
Finally, the COS bonuses make more sense and should encourage purchase of higher fares, with more revenue to AC. (Sadly, for me personally, my travel policy only gives me the option of T+ in general ...)
Dec 14, 2010, 2:48 am
#79
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 379
I operate out of NRT. My flight pattern on AC is 100% NRT-YYZ return. If I need extra miles to keep Elitie I ensure to do MR's to keep up my status on *A flights in ASIA.
Even with these adjustments I need 34 ePoints to gain even the equivelant puchasing power of my prior years SSWU's if I purchase the lowest fares (which were fine with SSWU's). I am happy to be corrected but 17 ePoints seems to be what is required for the NRT-YYZ run one way. To get 34 points I need to unload all my other benefits which I found useful.
Too add to things I actualy used one of my SWU this year to upgrade my mother on the same flight as she was booked into full fare economy using an award off her banking card. Guess that option is out as well.
Even after reading the giant post I get the feeling that this is not working out for mel. Once again happy to be corrected.
I will wait a few more days to see what happens but am quite miffed as I JUST completed a MR to keep up my status. Had I known..... then it seems I will recevie some additional SWU that expire at the end of Feb becuase I will qualify in Dec (Andrew says some certs will get mailed for DEC/JAN qualifiers), well cant use those due to my schedule. Too bad they are not ePoints, would seem like a more honest guesture to provide those.
I also used (needed!) the 1,000 + 2,000 status miles to work my Elite requalification, and need it again, unless they suddenly start giving out more points for NRT-YYZ. The CoS bonus (125%) for paid J/Z doesn't even work by my math when shooting to requalify, I might as well take a flight in ASIA instead and enjoy some beach.
rant off....
RDP
Even with these adjustments I need 34 ePoints to gain even the equivelant puchasing power of my prior years SSWU's if I purchase the lowest fares (which were fine with SSWU's). I am happy to be corrected but 17 ePoints seems to be what is required for the NRT-YYZ run one way. To get 34 points I need to unload all my other benefits which I found useful.
Too add to things I actualy used one of my SWU this year to upgrade my mother on the same flight as she was booked into full fare economy using an award off her banking card. Guess that option is out as well.
Even after reading the giant post I get the feeling that this is not working out for mel. Once again happy to be corrected.
I will wait a few more days to see what happens but am quite miffed as I JUST completed a MR to keep up my status. Had I known..... then it seems I will recevie some additional SWU that expire at the end of Feb becuase I will qualify in Dec (Andrew says some certs will get mailed for DEC/JAN qualifiers), well cant use those due to my schedule. Too bad they are not ePoints, would seem like a more honest guesture to provide those.
I also used (needed!) the 1,000 + 2,000 status miles to work my Elite requalification, and need it again, unless they suddenly start giving out more points for NRT-YYZ. The CoS bonus (125%) for paid J/Z doesn't even work by my math when shooting to requalify, I might as well take a flight in ASIA instead and enjoy some beach.
rant off....
RDP
The numbers do not work.
If you take the max 35 e-credits, you can get one return (34 e-credits) on a cheap Tango+ fare and wait and see (gamble) if you get ug 4 days prior.
M Tango+ fare is double the price of the above mentioned and once again you need that 4 day ug waiting window as well as 24 e-credits.
Chances are the same as the 4 day window pre-flight is a gamble.
I don't know why you would pay double the price for a ticket in M class and while it saves you 10 e-credits return, you are still at their mercy 4 days prior.
LAT for NRT-YYZ is going to be almost 4x the cost of the cheapest tango+ fare and you get a guaranteed ug at the time IF available.
For long haul Asia fliers on AC to Canada (east coast), simply not worth it in 2011 with these new changes by AC/AP.
The losers in this are E members with long haul flights from/to Asia and YYZ or other areas in that zone. Fly your 40,000 miles in 2011 and get your 20 extra e-credits and you will see that you are will still be 3 e-credits short if you want a M tango+ fare IF you have already used 34 e-credits on the cheaper tango+ fare.
Clearly the few new MBA graduates that did the math on this one didn't take a lot of flight plans into consideration. I am saying au revoir after all these years with AC/AP. It was mainly about the upgrades and simply not worth it anymore when we have other options for Asia.
Dec 14, 2010, 2:53 am
#80
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 379
It went from bad in 2010 to simply "this bites" in 2011 for Elite members.
The cuts are so drastic that it is just not worth the one R/T long haul from Tango +.
Dec 14, 2010, 4:01 am
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 20,550
It is interesting how some who fought the fight within the rules of this forum (they did not get warned or suspended for their opinions) are now portrayed by some as quasi villains in this thread.
Interesting read from the perspective of group dynamics....
Interesting read from the perspective of group dynamics....
Last edited by airbus320; Dec 14, 2010 at 4:19 am Reason: to add more thoughts....
Dec 14, 2010, 4:51 am
#84
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 20,550
So I made my selection a few days ago based on the old "2011 benefits". Given that 35 eCredits wasn't enough to upgrade a return YYZ-HKG trip, I had opted instead of 10 eCredits (which would have given me 35) for the 4 lounge passes that at least allowed me to gift them to friends.
Now that the # of credits required has changed, I would definitely would have opted for the 10 eCredits instead of the lounge passes. Anyone find themselves in a similar boat? Is there anything that could be done so we can go back to change our selection as a result of the modifications to the Top Tier program?
Now that the # of credits required has changed, I would definitely would have opted for the 10 eCredits instead of the lounge passes. Anyone find themselves in a similar boat? Is there anything that could be done so we can go back to change our selection as a result of the modifications to the Top Tier program?
Given the positive reaction of this community, the modifications are peceived as material changes to the 2011 Aeroplan top tier frequent flyer program.
In that situation, AC/AE should allow those who wish to change their choices based on new information to do so.
Dec 14, 2010, 5:36 am
#85
Join Date: May 2003
Location: YEG
Programs: AC E50 MM, WJ Gold, Marriott Titanium Elite Lifetime
Posts: 3,082
I saw lots of heated debates but not much craziness, maybe it was erased before I saw it. One thing I never got though and that's different from other boards that talk about community. I was surprised that the people the new program worked for didn't support in a bunch of cases the people it didn't work for. I got that it worked for them but in normal community board most folks would say hey it works for me but I see clearly how it doesn't work for you and AC needs to fix that. I just felt they argued and belittled our feelings which just got me frustrated. Even now we're chastised for pursuing our customers rights. Strange.
. Don't be so sensitive, Glad to know you won't be commenting on positive changes for you when they negatively affect others. 
Dec 14, 2010, 6:08 am
#86
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: YYZ/DLC
Programs: AP, HHonours Diamond
Posts: 3,722
Dec 14, 2010, 6:11 am
#87
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; BonvoyPlat; IHGPlat/Amb; HiltonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesPlat
Posts: 38,186
So now Es may eek out the equivalent of 2 SSWUs from their benefit kit, but at the expense of the elite mileage bonus. And they still lose a pair of SWUs or four NAUs, which in essence is still a reduction of almost half over last year's benefits even before counting the mileage option.
Not to mention that December threshold upgrades will still be paper certs with less than 2-months validity if that when these finally arrive. (As will those "bonus" certs that will go out with kits for those who cannot order until January.)
Dec 14, 2010, 6:14 am
#88
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: YYZ/DLC
Programs: AP, HHonours Diamond
Posts: 3,722
This still fails to address the crux of the problem, that Es have been screwed over by having a very small initial set of eCredits (slightly more than Ps) and have to decide between an additional 10 credits or elite bonus miles. No other tier has this either/or.
So now Es may eek out the equivalent of 2 SSWUs from their benefit kit, but at the expense of the elite mileage bonus. And they still lose a pair of SWUs or four NAUs, which in essence is still a reduction of almost half over last year's benefits even before counting the mileage option.
Not to mention that December threshold upgrades will still be paper certs with less than 2-months validity if that when these finally arrive. (As will those "bonus" certs that will go out with kits for those who cannot order until January.)
So now Es may eek out the equivalent of 2 SSWUs from their benefit kit, but at the expense of the elite mileage bonus. And they still lose a pair of SWUs or four NAUs, which in essence is still a reduction of almost half over last year's benefits even before counting the mileage option.
Not to mention that December threshold upgrades will still be paper certs with less than 2-months validity if that when these finally arrive. (As will those "bonus" certs that will go out with kits for those who cannot order until January.)
If they keep these new modified redemption level but made tier bonus a core part of the program, it would actually be a real enhancement, even despite the devaluation.
Dec 14, 2010, 6:20 am
#90
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: AC*SE MM, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat Amb
Posts: 3,439
Hrm. I am surprised that so few folks on here talk about using Flight Passes. I think this is really the secret key to upgrades, particularly in North America. I personally use the NothAmerica Flight Pass(10 Credit), and am planning on purchasing 4 for 2011. These flight passes book in M class - Yay for upgrades.
JR
JR
I'd purchase another Canada East Latitude pass in a flash if they brought it back at the same price though.
I'd already ruled out the sun passes, but with the change to M class they'll deserve another look too.