2011 Air Canada Top Tier Program Changes - General Discussion
Dec 9, 2010, 8:07 am
#151
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: A3*G AC*nobody TK*nobody
Posts: 1,967
But if I am really flying 2 segments YYZ-YVR-NRT, will I be charge 14 or 15 credit?
Dec 9, 2010, 8:07 am
#152
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,607
It's a bit annoying since there are a lot fewer options to connect in YVR than YYZ but for an elite taking the maximum upgrade selections and including the 20k and 40k thresholds (total of 55 credits) it would make the difference between 3 upgrades and 4. (4x14 = 56, one credit short).
Quite a big difference from 6 SWUs + 2 SSWUs last year. Next year we get *less than half* the upgrades we got last year.
Dec 9, 2010, 8:08 am
#153
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Location: FRA / YEG
Programs: AC Super Elite, Radisson Platinum, Accor Platinum
Posts: 11,874
Talking about more Es who fly AC metal one would think that AC would appreciate an increase.
I´m pretty sure that Es spend much more money per BIS mile flown than non-status members.
For instance, I spent 3x as much per mile flown as an Elite than I did as a non-status member (flying pattern being pretty much identical: TATL roundtrips Europe-West Coast and a few domestic flights). I don´t think the new enhancements will manage to squeeze this amount of incremental revenue out of me.
Dec 9, 2010, 8:11 am
#154
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: A3*G AC*nobody TK*nobody
Posts: 1,967
Dec 9, 2010, 8:12 am
#155
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: GVA
Programs: On Sabbatical, BA Bronze
Posts: 589
Andrew,
I have to say that over the last few years I have been a big supporter of AC. I believed that we were seeing a change in culture. Finally AC was starting to see the value in a positive relationship with it customers. I am VERY disappointed in this new e-upgrade promgram. If it is not changed by March 1st, 2011 to give a fair amount of e-upgrades credits (something at least close to compairable to previous years) then I will no longer be flying AC unless they are the cheapest alternative.
Flying 35000 status miles to get a chance on only 1 long-haul flight is a not worth being loyal to AC. I believe it is not to late to change the # of e-upgrades credits give....
Eric
I have to say that over the last few years I have been a big supporter of AC. I believed that we were seeing a change in culture. Finally AC was starting to see the value in a positive relationship with it customers. I am VERY disappointed in this new e-upgrade promgram. If it is not changed by March 1st, 2011 to give a fair amount of e-upgrades credits (something at least close to compairable to previous years) then I will no longer be flying AC unless they are the cheapest alternative.
Flying 35000 status miles to get a chance on only 1 long-haul flight is a not worth being loyal to AC. I believe it is not to late to change the # of e-upgrades credits give....
Eric
For the first time in 6 years I'll be looking at other options.
Dec 9, 2010, 8:12 am
#156
Company Representative - Air Canada
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,215
Dec 9, 2010, 8:14 am
#158
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: YXU, ON Canada
Programs: AC LT E50K; AC*MM; SPG LT Gold
Posts: 4,665
Versus the 2010 upgrade certificate program, there are no major changes to eligible booking classes / booking windows. While the Tango Plus booking class “U” is no longer grouped with booking class “M” (as on our 2010 Top Tier upgrade certificates), this is due to the fact that we are not selling booking class “U” on a regular basis.
Dec 9, 2010, 8:14 am
#159
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Across the pond
Programs: Aeroplan SE, Goldpassport Platinum, Avis Something, Hertz Gold
Posts: 750
There's no one set value we used to evaluate SSWU vs SWU; what we did was used the actual upgrade patterns of customers to determine the grid. Using the 90 credits you would earn in threshold as SE, 4 SSWU would have a value of 46 - 80 credits (< 5000 miles - > 5000 miles) and that leaves 10 - 44 credits to use on Latitude fares. Most customers fly a mixture of routes and you'll find those that if one flies only on Tango Plus on International, you'll see that you're actually better off to/from Europe and status quo to/from Asia. The credits better reflects the cost of an upgrade depending on what your destination is.
Given that I fly primarily to Europe this does not actually work as you have laid out.
For arguments sake I am going to go up to 105k to properly account for threshold bonuses
For 2010
At the onset you get 2 SSWU, 4 SWU
At 105k you would have received another 4 SSWU and 8 SWU
The total would have been 6 SSWU and 12 SWU
I could potentially upgrade 3 Tango Plus round trips and 6 round trips at fare class M or higher
For 2011
At the onset you get 60 eupgrade credits
At 100k you would have receiver another 60 + 30 or 90 credits
This translates to 150 credits
I can potentially upgrade 10 segments (5 round trips) for tango plus fares
or 15 segments (7.5 round trips) for fare class M or higher
For arguments sake if I was to look at a mixture of Tango plus and higher fares then it gives me 6 segments (3 Tango Plus round trips) and only 6 segments (3 round trips) at fare class M.
So I am worse off with atleast 6 less upgrade chances. But this also means that AC is worse off by atleast an extra $1500 or so that I would have paid for an M class fare as opposed to a lower fare for those 3 round trips. This becomes even more extreme if you look at the longer trips etc.
Dec 9, 2010, 8:15 am
#160
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: YEG
Programs: UA 1K, AC SE, WJ Gold
Posts: 352
Bad move AC 
I won't be buying a flight pass again with the change ... now my "U" fare flight pass requires the maximum number of credits to upgrade. Under the old system my green wallpaper was enough -- that made it worthwhile for me. Not again.
Perhaps I should just switch to Aegean Airlines if all AC is offering is essentially *G benefits with a few complicating caveats!
I won't be buying a flight pass again with the change ... now my "U" fare flight pass requires the maximum number of credits to upgrade. Under the old system my green wallpaper was enough -- that made it worthwhile for me. Not again.
Perhaps I should just switch to Aegean Airlines if all AC is offering is essentially *G benefits with a few complicating caveats!
Dec 9, 2010, 8:17 am
#161
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: YYC - not the centre of the universe
Programs: AC*S100K 1MM, LH FTL, Hyatt Globalist, Accor Plat
Posts: 4,768
Andrew, I know you're busy, but you still haven't answered my question - why do SEs get only 12 eCredits for Flight Pass purchases? That's a huge devaluation!!
Dec 9, 2010, 8:18 am
#162
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: YYC - not the centre of the universe
Programs: AC*S100K 1MM, LH FTL, Hyatt Globalist, Accor Plat
Posts: 4,768
Dear Andrew,
Given that I fly primarily to Europe this does not actually work as you have laid out.
For arguments sake I am going to go up to 105k to properly account for threshold bonuses
For 2010
At the onset you get 2 SSWU, 4 SWU
At 105k you would have received another 4 SSWU and 8 SWU
The total would have been 6 SSWU and 12 SWU
I could potentially upgrade 3 Tango Plus round trips and 6 round trips at fare class M or higher
For 2011
At the onset you get 60 eupgrade credits
At 100k you would have receiver another 60 + 30 or 90 credits
This translates to 150 credits
I can potentially upgrade 10 segments (5 round trips) for tango plus fares
or 15 segments (7.5 round trips) for fare class M or higher
For arguments sake if I was to look at a mixture of Tango plus and higher fares then it gives me 6 segments (3 Tango Plus round trips) and only 6 segments (3 round trips) at fare class M.
So I am worse off with atleast 6 less upgrade chances. But this also means that AC is worse off by atleast an extra $1500 or so that I would have paid for an M class fare as opposed to a lower fare for those 3 round trips. This becomes even more extreme if you look at the longer trips etc.
Given that I fly primarily to Europe this does not actually work as you have laid out.
For arguments sake I am going to go up to 105k to properly account for threshold bonuses
For 2010
At the onset you get 2 SSWU, 4 SWU
At 105k you would have received another 4 SSWU and 8 SWU
The total would have been 6 SSWU and 12 SWU
I could potentially upgrade 3 Tango Plus round trips and 6 round trips at fare class M or higher
For 2011
At the onset you get 60 eupgrade credits
At 100k you would have receiver another 60 + 30 or 90 credits
This translates to 150 credits
I can potentially upgrade 10 segments (5 round trips) for tango plus fares
or 15 segments (7.5 round trips) for fare class M or higher
For arguments sake if I was to look at a mixture of Tango plus and higher fares then it gives me 6 segments (3 Tango Plus round trips) and only 6 segments (3 round trips) at fare class M.
So I am worse off with atleast 6 less upgrade chances. But this also means that AC is worse off by atleast an extra $1500 or so that I would have paid for an M class fare as opposed to a lower fare for those 3 round trips. This becomes even more extreme if you look at the longer trips etc.
Dec 9, 2010, 8:22 am
#164
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Across the pond
Programs: Aeroplan SE, Goldpassport Platinum, Avis Something, Hertz Gold
Posts: 750
Dec 9, 2010, 8:23 am
#165
Company Representative - Air Canada
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,215
Dear Andrew,
Given that I fly primarily to Europe this does not actually work as you have laid out.
For arguments sake I am going to go up to 105k to properly account for threshold bonuses
For 2010
At the onset you get 2 SSWU, 4 SWU
At 105k you would have received another 4 SSWU and 8 SWU
The total would have been 6 SSWU and 12 SWU
I could potentially upgrade 3 Tango Plus round trips and 6 round trips at fare class M or higher
For 2011
At the onset you get 60 eupgrade credits
At 100k you would have receiver another 60 + 30 or 90 credits
This translates to 150 credits
I can potentially upgrade 10 segments (5 round trips) for tango plus fares
or 15 segments (7.5 round trips) for fare class M or higher
For arguments sake if I was to look at a mixture of Tango plus and higher fares then it gives me 6 segments (3 Tango Plus round trips) and only 6 segments (3 round trips) at fare class M.
So I am worse off with atleast 6 less upgrade chances. But this also means that AC is worse off by atleast an extra $1500 or so that I would have paid for an M class fare as opposed to a lower fare for those 3 round trips. This becomes even more extreme if you look at the longer trips etc.
Given that I fly primarily to Europe this does not actually work as you have laid out.
For arguments sake I am going to go up to 105k to properly account for threshold bonuses
For 2010
At the onset you get 2 SSWU, 4 SWU
At 105k you would have received another 4 SSWU and 8 SWU
The total would have been 6 SSWU and 12 SWU
I could potentially upgrade 3 Tango Plus round trips and 6 round trips at fare class M or higher
For 2011
At the onset you get 60 eupgrade credits
At 100k you would have receiver another 60 + 30 or 90 credits
This translates to 150 credits
I can potentially upgrade 10 segments (5 round trips) for tango plus fares
or 15 segments (7.5 round trips) for fare class M or higher
For arguments sake if I was to look at a mixture of Tango plus and higher fares then it gives me 6 segments (3 Tango Plus round trips) and only 6 segments (3 round trips) at fare class M.
So I am worse off with atleast 6 less upgrade chances. But this also means that AC is worse off by atleast an extra $1500 or so that I would have paid for an M class fare as opposed to a lower fare for those 3 round trips. This becomes even more extreme if you look at the longer trips etc.
Also keep in mind the new upgrade for a nominee without the need to travel with them; some of you might not admit it or remember but this is very high on the ask list. (Especially the ability to upgrade family members when they are not traveling with you on all flights on a business trip etc; there's a huge cost to this as well as number of upgrade eligible customers have gone up)