Mini RTW Questions

Old Mar 27, 2013, 1:55 am
  #1006  
 
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Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim
Oh, totally agree. I was just saying "just because it says A8 don't assume there is O availability". It doesn't change the fact that you HAD a ticket in O and they "disappeared" it :P Call, call!
So I called. It was.... enlightening.

Now to Aeroplan's credit, they were extremely friendly and helpful, even if nothing happened in the end. The problem lies with the actual flight, it seems. According to Aeroplan, they are not able to see any availability in anything higher than C on that flight and they can't access the OZ site directly to confirm that there is space. And they can't access the OZ website either because it's blocked there. So they phoned OZ. Good start.

After 20 minutes a supervisor (I assume) phones me back and says that OZ tells him they are officially changing that flight and removing F completely. So it will drop to two-class. Hence, they can't do anything but will keep the tickets as-is, so if (when?) something changes in the future I will still have F seats. And according to him, they can't downgrade us like that if F exists. So... very nice guy, told me 75% of what I wanted to hear. Kept our tickets as-is, too, with the instruction that we have until the minute of the flight to confirm in F if at any point F exists (which I intend to watch for like a particularly-observant hawk) and if everything goes wrong we can claim our miles back in January. While I'd be happy to swap everything over to JFK, the logistics are just too much (we'd need to leave on Christmas Day to get to NYC so we could rush from EWR to JFK on the 26th. I'd do it, but the rest of the family may be a bit less convinced.)

So after all that, still sitting on two "First" tickets with more or less confirmation that we can get the seats as soon as the seats are confirmed to exist, I phone OZ directly. Very nice agent answers immediately and after the short explanation of "no, I understand this is not your ticket and trust me, this is certainly not going to be your problem, but I need you to tell me something here" she comes back and very quickly says "there is F on that flight in A class, but only for paid tickets, not award tickets". Which I gather means O0. But I explain to her "lucky for you, this is not your problem, but you are certain there is a first cabin". "Yes".

Today I'm going to make a table of information I've been given, but this will certainly require another call to AP in the near future, probably multiple calls in the moderate future. Unless someone thinks that they're jerking me around, in which case it will be sooner rather than later.

Last edited by DJ Bitterbarn; Mar 27, 2013 at 2:11 am
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 12:30 pm
  #1007  
 
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Originally Posted by DJ Bitterbarn
So I called. It was.... enlightening.

Now to Aeroplan's credit, they were extremely friendly and helpful, even if nothing happened in the end. The problem lies with the actual flight, it seems. According to Aeroplan, they are not able to see any availability in anything higher than C on that flight and they can't access the OZ site directly to confirm that there is space. And they can't access the OZ website either because it's blocked there. So they phoned OZ. Good start.

After 20 minutes a supervisor (I assume) phones me back and says that OZ tells him they are officially changing that flight and removing F completely. So it will drop to two-class. Hence, they can't do anything but will keep the tickets as-is, so if (when?) something changes in the future I will still have F seats. And according to him, they can't downgrade us like that if F exists. So... very nice guy, told me 75% of what I wanted to hear. Kept our tickets as-is, too, with the instruction that we have until the minute of the flight to confirm in F if at any point F exists (which I intend to watch for like a particularly-observant hawk) and if everything goes wrong we can claim our miles back in January. While I'd be happy to swap everything over to JFK, the logistics are just too much (we'd need to leave on Christmas Day to get to NYC so we could rush from EWR to JFK on the 26th. I'd do it, but the rest of the family may be a bit less convinced.)

So after all that, still sitting on two "First" tickets with more or less confirmation that we can get the seats as soon as the seats are confirmed to exist, I phone OZ directly. Very nice agent answers immediately and after the short explanation of "no, I understand this is not your ticket and trust me, this is certainly not going to be your problem, but I need you to tell me something here" she comes back and very quickly says "there is F on that flight in A class, but only for paid tickets, not award tickets". Which I gather means O0. But I explain to her "lucky for you, this is not your problem, but you are certain there is a first cabin". "Yes".

Today I'm going to make a table of information I've been given, but this will certainly require another call to AP in the near future, probably multiple calls in the moderate future. Unless someone thinks that they're jerking me around, in which case it will be sooner rather than later.
The recommendation I've heard is to request an alliance liaison to solve your problem. Potentially ask for a reroute via somewhere OZ still has F service (JFK?).
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 10:43 pm
  #1008  
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So with all the talk about published routings, here's one interesting one that hasn't been asked. In validating a published routing, can coterminals be substituted? Ie instead of LAX-NRT-SIN-SYD, can it be LAX-HND, NRT-SIN-SYD (or hell, just make it HND all the way)?
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Old Mar 29, 2013, 8:50 am
  #1009  
 
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Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim
So with all the talk about published routings, here's one interesting one that hasn't been asked. In validating a published routing, can coterminals be substituted? Ie instead of LAX-NRT-SIN-SYD, can it be LAX-HND, NRT-SIN-SYD (or hell, just make it HND all the way)?
Don't routing rules usually specify metro codes wherever applicable? If you pull one up I bet you'll not see NRT but rather TYO. Without additional info, if it is a metro code then definitely. Valid co-terminals are usually also listed somewhere in the rules (I definitely remember reading something along the lines of "the following are considered equivalent for fare construction purposes") -- check the fare rules maybe?
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Old Mar 29, 2013, 9:00 am
  #1010  
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Originally Posted by arcticbull
Don't routing rules usually specify metro codes wherever applicable? If you pull one up I bet you'll not see NRT but rather TYO. Without additional info, if it is a metro code then definitely. Valid co-terminals are usually also listed somewhere in the rules (I definitely remember reading something along the lines of "the following are considered equivalent for fare construction purposes") -- check the fare rules maybe?
I seem to recall the SQ routing from LAX to SYD showing "NRT/ICN", so neither Haneda nor Gimpy was mentioned. But you're right, I should review them.
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Old Mar 30, 2013, 8:48 pm
  #1011  
 
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Hi all. Been studying these forums a lot, and have been trying to figure out the KVS tool as well.

Am I correct that the following is a valid itinerary and falls within the allowed MPM?

yyc-ord-bru-cai-dxb-del-ktm-hkg-sfo-yyc

stops in bru, cai , 24hrs in dxb and del, destination ktm.

Last edited by rataplan; Mar 30, 2013 at 8:53 pm
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Old Mar 30, 2013, 8:52 pm
  #1012  
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Originally Posted by rataplan
Hi all. Been studying these forums a lot, and have been trying to figure out the KVS tool as well.

Am I correct that the following is a valid itinerary and falls within the allowed MPM?

yyc-ord-bru-cai-dxb-del-ktm-hkg-sfo-yyc

stops in bru, cai and ktm, 24hrs in dxb and del, destination hkg.
I doubt it - although it fits within MPM, people have had issues routing over DEL on Asia1 rewards (although here it would be a .. Indian subcontinent reward? I wonder where KTM falls, I guess in there). You *might* be able to do it, but agents have been reluctant to do it (but it DOES fall within MPM).

[edit] you do not have too many stops, why? BRU, CAI, HKG stops, no?

Wait, if you aren't stopping in KTM, I think you'd definitely encounter some resistance from the agents to book this.
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Old Mar 30, 2013, 9:40 pm
  #1013  
 
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Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim
I doubt it - although it fits within MPM, people have had issues routing over DEL on Asia1 rewards (although here it would be a .. Indian subcontinent reward? I wonder where KTM falls, I guess in there). You *might* be able to do it, but agents have been reluctant to do it (but it DOES fall within MPM).

[edit] you do not have too many stops, why? BRU, CAI, HKG stops, no?

Wait, if you aren't stopping in KTM, I think you'd definitely encounter some resistance from the agents to book this.
I edited my edit stops in bru, Cai, ktm. That's why I have ktm as destination. Originally I had hkg as dest but then I had too many stops, i want to get out in ktm, not in hkg.

I.actually tried to get DME instead of Cai, but exceeded the mpm
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Old Mar 31, 2013, 6:41 am
  #1014  
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Originally Posted by rataplan
I edited my edit stops in bru, Cai, ktm. That's why I have ktm as destination. Originally I had hkg as dest but then I had too many stops, i want to get out in ktm, not in hkg.

I.actually tried to get DME instead of Cai, but exceeded the mpm
Ya I figured KTM must be a stop, else why layover there But does *A even fly there using the routing you specify? Since AI was rejected from *A I'm pretty sure there's no way to go DEL-KTM-HKG on *A.
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Old Mar 31, 2013, 12:52 pm
  #1015  
 
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Okay, second attempt at getting a routing with my limited knowledge. Thanks to rankourabu and RooFlyer for setting me straight - in my last post I mistakenly took MPM5 in one direction and doubled it for then entire RTW itinerary, which got me some exciting but unfortunately unbookable routings. Don't know what I was thinking, sorry!

So, is this routing possible, given the following YYZ-SIN MPM5:
YYZ-SIN TP 11799mi
SIN-YYZ TA 13425mi

Route:
TP: YYZ-LAX-NRT-HKG-BKK-SIN (11394mi)
TA: SIN-DXB(stop)-JRO(stop)-YYZ (13660mi)

I know I'm 200mi over on the TA, but I've read on this thread that there is a tolerance. Also, flying TA on the return, will it allow for an African stopover, or will they end up making that the destination for this booking?

Does any of this make sense? Really, I am trying my best to get a handle on all of this...
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Old Mar 31, 2013, 1:36 pm
  #1016  
 
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Originally Posted by rsbyyz
So, is this routing possible, given the following YYZ-SIN MPM5:
YYZ-SIN TP 11799mi
SIN-YYZ TA 13425mi

Route:
TP: YYZ-LAX-NRT-HKG-BKK-SIN (11394mi)
TA: SIN-DXB(stop)-JRO(stop)-YYZ (13660mi)

I know I'm 200mi over on the TA, but I've read on this thread that there is a tolerance. Also, flying TA on the return, will it allow for an African stopover, or will they end up making that the destination for this booking?
IME MPM +5% is enforced by agents. I've tried to ticket itineraries that were just a few miles over MPM5 and been denied. However, routing validation is a manual process at AE, and agents are certainly known to make mistakes and over MPM itineraries certainly do slip through.

When calculating mileage you have to factor in connections. On your return, how are you getting from JRO to YYZ? If it's JRO-IST-YYZ for example you need to use that mileage.

You should be charged for an Africa award even though your POT is SIN.
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Old Mar 31, 2013, 3:02 pm
  #1017  
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Originally Posted by rsbyyz
So, is this routing possible, given the following YYZ-SIN MPM5:
YYZ-SIN TP 11799mi
SIN-YYZ TA 13425mi

Route:
TP: YYZ-LAX-NRT-HKG-BKK-SIN (11394mi)
TA: SIN-DXB(stop)-JRO(stop)-YYZ (13660mi)
As mentioned above, first problem is JRO-YYZ doesnt exist.
second is that you will most likely be charged Africa
YYZ-JRO - 9970 AT, 13048 PA, so I doubt your Asia routing will work
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Old Mar 31, 2013, 3:51 pm
  #1018  
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Originally Posted by rsbyyz
Okay, second attempt at getting a routing with my limited knowledge. Thanks to rankourabu and RooFlyer for setting me straight - in my last post I mistakenly took MPM5 in one direction and doubled it for then entire RTW itinerary, which got me some exciting but unfortunately unbookable routings. Don't know what I was thinking, sorry!

So, is this routing possible, given the following YYZ-SIN MPM5:
YYZ-SIN TP 11799mi
SIN-YYZ TA 13425mi

Route:
TP: YYZ-LAX-NRT-HKG-BKK-SIN (11394mi)
TA: SIN-DXB(stop)-JRO(stop)-YYZ (13660mi)

I know I'm 200mi over on the TA, but I've read on this thread that there is a tolerance. Also, flying TA on the return, will it allow for an African stopover, or will they end up making that the destination for this booking?

Does any of this make sense? Really, I am trying my best to get a handle on all of this...
You will definitely be charged Africa for this (rule is: MPM to furthest away point, but points cost for most expensive stopover, so flying to SIN through DXB (with a stop obv) will give MPM for SIN but cost DXB miles). How did you calculate the mileage on the way back, esp the last segment - did you plug in JRO-YYZ or something like JRO-JNB-FRA-YYZ? As rabu pointed out, JRO-YYZ is invalid, so you'd need either a published routing or enough mileage to cover it. Problem is I don't think there IS a published routing for these cities.
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Old Apr 1, 2013, 10:53 pm
  #1019  
 
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195,000 AP mini-RTW in F- Itinerary advise

Hi All,

Ive been racking up AP miles for a few years and reached a point where I have enough points for a long haul adventure. Been reading threads on FT about routings in an effort to learn as much as possible. A lot of great content, so thanks to the FT community!

Looking for some advise to help me refine my routing before making the call to APs contact center.

First, goals for the trip (in order of priority):

1. Travel to 3 continents (Europe, Asia, Australia)
2. Try many premium F cabins ( TG, LH, SQ)
3. Minimize fuel surcharges where possible.
4. Experience a chauffeur drive to the plane
5. Fly on the A380 in F
6. Take advantage of unlimited layovers to visit cities in 24 hours


Restrictions: Have to be in BKK from Jan 15, 2014-Jan 22, 2014 for a wedding. Would like to also visit a friend in LIS at some point during the trip

Travel Dates: Jan 2014-Feb 2014

Aeroplan points available: 195K

Travel Class: Prefer F all the way, however recognize that I may have to travel in J for some segments

Here is my first crack at building an itinerary:
YYZ-FRA(layover)-IST(layover)-BKK(stop)-SIN(layover)-SYD(stop)-PEK(layover)-NRT(destination)-ZRH(layover)-LIS(layover)-YUL(Layover)-YYZ

YYZ-FRA ( LH F)
Pro: Experience the LH First class terminal + chauffeur drive
Con: Availability opens up 14 days out and fuel charges are very high

FRA-IST (TG F)
Pro: Travel on the A380
Con: fuel surcharge

BKK-SIN-SYD (SQ F- I have been reading this is not possible to book with AP. Would be OK with business class

SYD-PEK-NRT (AIR CHINA)

NRT-ZRH-LIS (TAP)

LIS-YUL-YYZ (Swiss)

Questions:
1) Is this a valid routing according to MPM and other rules for Aeroplan rewards?. Its based on a routing confirmed in the Including SYD/MEL in mini-R-t-W thread

2)What kind of surcharges am I looking at for the trip? Ideally, I would like to keep it <800. Willing to swap out segments and fly with TK or LX to minimize costs

3) What does availability in F look like right now for the Jan period? If someone can look on the KVS tool, I would really appreciate it.

4) Any other routings that are more feasible and still accomplish the same goals?

Appreciate all the help in advance
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Old Apr 1, 2013, 11:01 pm
  #1020  
 
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I'd skip Air China and go with SYD-ICN-NRT.
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