Mini RTW Questions

Old Mar 21, 2013, 11:24 am
  #976  
 
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Originally Posted by rsbyyz

Here's the deal - I'm interested in setting up an itinerary for myself and two relatives next year. I'd like it to be all in first class or at least business, and I've really only got one specific city in mind (JRO - Kilimanjaro), the rest are all just general areas.

I'd like a routing that includes:
Toronto - Europe (LHR/CDG/BCN) - Africa (JRO) - DXB and/or SE Asia (SIN/BKK) - Australia or Japan - Toronto
I personally think this is a bit ambitious to work in both SE Asia and Australia into such a reward booking. I'd be very interested to see if this is actually do-able if you manage to get it ticketed. NE Asia maybe, but I don't believe that it's physically doable to do Australia and SE asia in this ticket.

I have found that Aeroplan is not very generous with MPM when it comes to allowable routings unless you find agents that aren't sharp enough to verify the tickets prior to putting them through.

Originally Posted by rankourabu
You have 9970 miles to work with on TATL YYZ-JRO
You have 13048 miles to work with on TPAC JRO-YYZ

The latter looks very limiting, and I dont know if anything via ADD and Asia will be ok.
Rankourabu has been kind enough to share the actual MPM allowed. Plug your desired routing into gcmapper.com and if you can find asian routings as well as european ones with your desired stopovers AND space available on the carriers you want to fly then you should be golden. A caution - this may involve several hours worth of research.

Two months ago, I booked an African Reward at 270 - 300 days out. At that time Ethiopian was not releasing space that far in advance, but Turkish, Egypt Air, Swiss, Air Canada, United and South African were. This makes it a challenge for you to get all business or all first since the carriers don't release their reward inventory all at the same time.

For what it's worth, I did not see any first class reward space available on any African Routes that far in advance. It is also common knowledge around the forums that Lufthansa only releases this space a few weeks in advance if it is not selling.

Last edited by worldtraveller73; Mar 21, 2013 at 12:04 pm
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 11:48 am
  #977  
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In addition to the above: someone needs to look up published routings from JRO to LAX... maybe on NZ or something. I really doubt there's any possible way to do this, as 13K is really not a lot of miles to go over the Pacific even from Asia - let alone from Africa - but I will be happy to be proven wrong.
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Old Mar 22, 2013, 9:01 am
  #978  
 
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Thanks for the responses and much needed help:

rankourabu - thanks for the MPM and carrier info
krayZpaving - thanks for the call-in info
worldtraveller73 - thanks for general info on how to plan the trip
Pseudo Nim - thanks for the additional info

I think I'm starting to get this. So, my first steps are to understand the MPM for the city-pair that I'm looking at (probably YYZ-JRO), and then figure out a route that is within that number one-way? And for the entire round trip, I can include up to 10 hops with 2 stopovers, not including connections if they are necessary as part of the routing?

I'm digging into it now, got the KVS tool so that I can look up MPM, signed up for the ANA account so that I can look at availability. I feel like I'm playing with the big kids now

Another question please - when looking up MPMs, are we limited with AE to book from AC hubs as the origin, or can I look up MPM from any city-pair? I'm noticing that LAX to Africa (TP) or SE Asia (TA) offer some pretty high MPMs - LAX-SIN is +17k, which is a lot of miles to work with.

Thank you guys so much! The hard part really is choosing where you want to go, isn't it?
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Old Mar 22, 2013, 9:05 am
  #979  
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Originally Posted by rsbyyz
Thanks for the responses and much needed help:

rankourabu - thanks for the MPM and carrier info
krayZpaving - thanks for the call-in info
worldtraveller73 - thanks for general info on how to plan the trip
Pseudo Nim - thanks for the additional info

I think I'm starting to get this. So, my first steps are to understand the MPM for the city-pair that I'm looking at (probably YYZ-JRO), and then figure out a route that is within that number one-way? And for the entire round trip, I can include up to 10 hops with 2 stopovers, not including connections if they are necessary as part of the routing?

I'm digging into it now, got the KVS tool so that I can look up MPM, signed up for the ANA account so that I can look at availability. I feel like I'm playing with the big kids now

Another question please - when looking up MPMs, are we limited with AE to book from AC hubs as the origin, or can I look up MPM from any city-pair? I'm noticing that LAX to Africa (TP) or SE Asia (TA) offer some pretty high MPMs - LAX-SIN is +17k, which is a lot of miles to work with.

Thank you guys so much! The hard part really is choosing where you want to go, isn't it?
Bah don't use ANA. Use my tool (signature). It's far more user-friendly.

You do not need to start in an AC hub, but do be aware that it means you have to get there first. It is not a bad idea to look up LAX-Africa, but it will mean you have to fly to LAX yourself; do consider that instead, it might be more worthwhile to fly to some destination and then buy (with dollars/points) a ticket from THAT destination to your REAL destination, in case that costs less. So hypothetically, it is known that you cannot do YYZ-SYD over the Atlantic, as it goes over MPM - but you can do YYZ-PER. Were you to fly, say, LHR-SYD, you could do it - but then you would need to position to LHR, which would cost more, comparatively, than buying a PER-SYD ticket. So consider that!
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Old Mar 22, 2013, 11:37 am
  #980  
 
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Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim
Bah don't use ANA. Use my tool (signature). It's far more user-friendly.

You do not need to start in an AC hub, but do be aware that it means you have to get there first. It is not a bad idea to look up LAX-Africa, but it will mean you have to fly to LAX yourself; do consider that instead, it might be more worthwhile to fly to some destination and then buy (with dollars/points) a ticket from THAT destination to your REAL destination, in case that costs less. So hypothetically, it is known that you cannot do YYZ-SYD over the Atlantic, as it goes over MPM - but you can do YYZ-PER. Were you to fly, say, LHR-SYD, you could do it - but then you would need to position to LHR, which would cost more, comparatively, than buying a PER-SYD ticket. So consider that!
Interesting about YYZ-SYD TATL - many people have booked this routing for their mini-RTWs (see valid mini-RTW faq) - and very easy to book on AE.com as multi-city routing flying outbound TATL and inbound TPAC - have you had trouble booking this routing?
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Old Mar 22, 2013, 11:42 am
  #981  
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Originally Posted by mountaingrl
Interesting about YYZ-SYD TATL - many people have booked this routing for their mini-RTWs (see valid mini-RTW faq) - and very easy to book on AE.com as multi-city routing flying outbound TATL and inbound TPAC - have you had trouble booking this routing?
Sorry: I think what I was referring to (without going back in the thread to check) is YYZ-SYD *through* JNB. That one only gets you as far as PER
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Old Mar 22, 2013, 12:15 pm
  #982  
 
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How stringent are they on MPM5? VCE-YYZ MPM5 is 5369.7 (round up/down?)

I have a planned route that is VCE-FRA-CDG-BRU-ORD-YYZ is 5373 right now Using ITA distances which are slightly shorter than GCM. 5390 on GCM.
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Old Mar 22, 2013, 1:20 pm
  #983  
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Originally Posted by goob3r
How stringent are they on MPM5? VCE-YYZ MPM5 is 5369.7 (round up/down?)

I have a planned route that is VCE-FRA-CDG-BRU-ORD-YYZ is 5373 right now Using ITA distances which are slightly shorter than GCM. 5390 on GCM.
This is fine, it will pass. They will usually do up to *about* 300-400 miles over without too much of a fuss, although 500 seems to be "too much" - although like anything, their rules are fuzzy. For example, in writing this post, I realised I thought I was over MPM on my routing, but it turns out I'm over MPM, but under MPM5 - so I could have stopped by LAX instead of SFO (LAX was 500 over MPM, SFO was 300 or so) - shame on me for not checking this more properly. On the other hand... nothing wrong with SFO, and I have a 26 hour stopover which the agent had no problem allowing (despite me having 2 stops and a destination elsewhere). So yeah........ rules.
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Old Mar 22, 2013, 1:29 pm
  #984  
 
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Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim
This is fine, it will pass. They will usually do up to *about* 300-400 miles over without too much of a fuss, although 500 seems to be "too much" - although like anything, their rules are fuzzy. For example, in writing this post, I realised I thought I was over MPM on my routing, but it turns out I'm over MPM, but under MPM5 - so I could have stopped by LAX instead of SFO (LAX was 500 over MPM, SFO was 300 or so) - shame on me for not checking this more properly. On the other hand... nothing wrong with SFO, and I have a 26 hour stopover which the agent had no problem allowing (despite me having 2 stops and a destination elsewhere). So yeah........ rules.
Right, there's MPM5 (which you should be using). However, there's often some flexibility on these things in the form of TPD's (ticketed point deductions -- they remove miles from your routing because you transited a certain city). You can verify this on ExpertFlyer.
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Old Mar 24, 2013, 8:34 am
  #985  
 
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Okay, so I've been playing around with MPM5 and possible routings - not looking at schedules yet, just want to check if these itineraries would be valid or are doable based on everyone's experience. What do you think?

YYZ-SIN MPM5=26800mi r/t
Route: YYZ-CDG-IST-JRO(stop)-DXB-MLE(stop)-SIN(DEST)-BKK-NRT-YYZ, 24745 mi

LAX-SIN MPM5=31110mi r/t
Route1: LAX-CUZ(stop)-IST-JRO(stop)-DXB-SIN(dest)-NRT-LAX, 29688 mi
Route2: LAX-GIG(stop)-IST-JRO(stop)-DXB-SIN(dest)-NRT-LAX, 30492 mi

I've tried to set SIN as the destination to reduce the points required as well, but I'm guessing that since I've got an African stop it will still be at the Africa AE points level (so 210k and not 175k for F) -is this correct?

I've tried my best to get all 5 continents in on one trip, but as was posted previously, it won't work due to the MPMs. So Australia is out, but perhaps I can squeeze in South American with those options from LAX? But would that work for TA MPM routings?

Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim
Bah don't use ANA. Use my tool (signature). It's far more user-friendly.
This is a very simple and easy to use tool Pseudo Nim - will be using it for sure when I get to the next stage of scheduling and searching availability (if I get there) Thanks!
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Old Mar 24, 2013, 9:49 am
  #986  
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Originally Posted by rsbyyz
Okay, so I've been playing around with MPM5 and possible routings - not looking at schedules yet, just want to check if these itineraries would be valid or are doable based on everyone's experience. What do you think?

MPM is not a round trip total, it is per direction to/from your point of turn around @:-)

And as you know there are different indicators and amounts depending on which direction you go.
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Old Mar 24, 2013, 10:42 am
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Originally Posted by rankourabu
MPM is not a round trip total, it is per direction to/from your point of turn around @:-)

And as you know there are different indicators and amounts depending on which direction you go.
With due respect to both rsbyyz and rankourabu, its possible that rsbyyz doesn't know about the 'indicators' - 'Global Indicators' (but apologies to you rsbyyz if you do ).

As rankourabu points out you first look up (on EF for instance) MPM or MPM5 between origin and destination in the direction you are heading out . This direction or rather the area being traversed is given by the 'Global Indicator' or GI .

Sometimes these are the same milages for 'AT' - via Atlantic - and "PA' - via Pacific. Sometimes AT and PA have different milages. Sometimes there are other choices such as EH (Eastern Hemisphere) or TS (Trans Siberia).

In this case, as you want to go east across the Atlantic first: 'AT' (via Atlantic) AT MPM = 12786 MPM5 = 13425 . So your miles on the outward leg can't exceed this, absent a 'published route' you can find on EF between these and which comprises more miles.

Then look at SIN-YYZ via the Pacific for the return: PA MPM = 11238 MPM5 = 11799 So the miles on the trip home can't exceed this, again absent a 'published route' (look up on EF).

I trust I have outlined things OK rankourabu.
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Old Mar 24, 2013, 11:09 am
  #988  
 
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My much delayed honeymoon is this October/ November to Europe and Greece. My partner and I have been to Asia many times over for business and pleasure, so we will just focus on a few cities in Europe this time. We would like to fly in Business (J) for at least the long haul roundtrip. Not so picky regarding intra-euro short hauls but business would be ideal. We don't have SE/E status with AP but I have an Amex Plat. And we don't mind paying extra for Air Canada or Lufthansa flight for the long haul if it means shorter travel time and more comfortable cabin.

The plan is:

YYZ -> PRG (Prague), stopover (2-3 nights)
PRG -> ATH (Athens), connection (1 night) --> less than 24 hours is 1 night, correct?
ATH -> JTR (Santorini), point of return/ destination (4-5 nights)
JTR -> ATH (Athens), connection (1 nights)
ATH -> FCO (Rome), stopover (3-5 nights)
FCO -> YYZ

Please tell me if this is a valid ticketing itinerary for 125K points pp?

Thank you!

P.S.: can we just call up Aeroplan Centre to book this trip, assuming this is a valid itinerary or do I have to find all the *A flights first and spoon feed the call centre rep? What's a recommended website or websites to look for all the different flights?

C.H.
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Old Mar 24, 2013, 5:35 pm
  #989  
 
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Originally Posted by theOtherHolmes
My much delayed honeymoon is this October/ November to Europe and Greece. My partner and I have been to Asia many times over for business and pleasure, so we will just focus on a few cities in Europe this time. We would like to fly in Business (J) for at least the long haul roundtrip. Not so picky regarding intra-euro short hauls but business would be ideal. We don't have SE/E status with AP but I have an Amex Plat. And we don't mind paying extra for Air Canada or Lufthansa flight for the long haul if it means shorter travel time and more comfortable cabin.

The plan is:

YYZ -> PRG (Prague), stopover (2-3 nights)
PRG -> ATH (Athens), connection (1 night) --> less than 24 hours is 1 night, correct?
ATH -> JTR (Santorini), point of return/ destination (4-5 nights)
JTR -> ATH (Athens), connection (1 nights)
ATH -> FCO (Rome), stopover (3-5 nights)
FCO -> YYZ

Please tell me if this is a valid ticketing itinerary for 125K points pp?

Thank you!

P.S.: can we just call up Aeroplan Centre to book this trip, assuming this is a valid itinerary or do I have to find all the *A flights first and spoon feed the call centre rep? What's a recommended website or websites to look for all the different flights?

C.H.
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Old Mar 24, 2013, 5:39 pm
  #990  
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Originally Posted by theOtherHolmes
My much delayed honeymoon is this October/ November to Europe and Greece. My partner and I have been to Asia many times over for business and pleasure, so we will just focus on a few cities in Europe this time. We would like to fly in Business (J) for at least the long haul roundtrip. Not so picky regarding intra-euro short hauls but business would be ideal. We don't have SE/E status with AP but I have an Amex Plat. And we don't mind paying extra for Air Canada or Lufthansa flight for the long haul if it means shorter travel time and more comfortable cabin.

The plan is:

YYZ -> PRG (Prague), stopover (2-3 nights)
PRG -> ATH (Athens), connection (1 night) --> less than 24 hours is 1 night, correct?
ATH -> JTR (Santorini), point of return/ destination (4-5 nights)
JTR -> ATH (Athens), connection (1 nights)
ATH -> FCO (Rome), stopover (3-5 nights)
FCO -> YYZ

Please tell me if this is a valid ticketing itinerary for 125K points pp?

Thank you!

P.S.: can we just call up Aeroplan Centre to book this trip, assuming this is a valid itinerary or do I have to find all the *A flights first and spoon feed the call centre rep? What's a recommended website or websites to look for all the different flights?

C.H.
Use my site to search availability (signature). The itinerary seems to be valid.
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