Mini RTW Questions

Old Mar 9, 2013, 4:43 pm
  #916  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
Originally Posted by kade Reid
Thanks Pseudo! Yeah there was not so much availability! But I think I may have it!

SEA - SFO(UA) - NRT(NH) - SIN(NH) - MEL(SQ) P.O.T MEL - BKK(TG) - FRA(TG) STOP FRA - EWR(UA) STOP YUL - YVR(AC) - SEA (AC)

All in J (except the YVR-SEA leg, which I don't intend on flying). Does anyone see any problems? Can I go hound aeroplan?
The only thing is that I am still never sure which legs of a published routing MUST be flown on the publishing carrier. So in your case, I don't know if SFO-NRT-SIN *must* be flown on SQ or not. But if you book it, PLEASE post back! we need data points other than that it looks fine.
Pseudo Nim is offline  
Old Mar 9, 2013, 5:17 pm
  #917  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Australia and Canada
Programs: Qantas FF Plat; Virgin Aust Plat;
Posts: 799
Hi

Can you please clarify what a "published route" is and what makes a "publishing carrier"?

Thanks
RooFlyer is offline  
Old Mar 9, 2013, 5:53 pm
  #918  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Programs: AC, VA, EY
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim
Originally Posted by kade Reid
Thanks Pseudo! Yeah there was not so much availability! But I think I may have it!

SEA - SFO(UA) - NRT(NH) - SIN(NH) - MEL(SQ) P.O.T MEL - BKK(TG) - FRA(TG) STOP FRA - EWR(UA) STOP YUL - YVR(AC) - SEA (AC)

All in J (except the YVR-SEA leg, which I don't intend on flying). Does anyone see any problems? Can I go hound aeroplan?
The only thing is that I am still never sure which legs of a published routing MUST be flown on the publishing carrier. So in your case, I don't know if SFO-NRT-SIN *must* be flown on SQ or not. But if you book it, PLEASE post back! we need data points other than that it looks fine.
Ok, I got the first leg verified and accepted. Something about line 96 of the routing!?

My return won't work as the open jaw is invalid. Something about open jaw must be at the point of return!? Anyways I have a few option around it.
kade Reid is offline  
Old Mar 10, 2013, 4:58 pm
  #919  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Programs: AC, VA, EY
Posts: 65
Booked and ticketed! Aeroplan agent was fantastic! He waved the MPM coming back. Only problem was the $1200 in scam charges!

SEA-SFO(UA)-NRT(NH)-SIN(NH)-MEL(SQ) MEL-BKK(TG)-FRA(TG) FRA-EWR(UA) EWR-SFO(UA)-SEA(UA)

iPhones are amazing. I recently lost my laptop, so all research and booking was done using iphone and apps

*edit, put in airlines used.

Last edited by kade Reid; Mar 10, 2013 at 6:48 pm
kade Reid is offline  
Old Mar 10, 2013, 6:12 pm
  #920  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YYZ
Programs: Nexus
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by kade Reid
Booked and ticketed! Aeroplan agent was fantastic! He waved the MPM coming back. Only problem was the $1200 in scam charges!

SEA-SFO-NRT-SIN-MEL MEL-BKK-FRA FRA-EWR EWR-SFO-SEA

iPhones are amazing. I recently lost my laptop, so all research and booking was done using iphone and apps
It would be helpful to know which airlines you used.
cmgalan is offline  
Old Mar 10, 2013, 9:23 pm
  #921  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
Originally Posted by kade Reid
Booked and ticketed! Aeroplan agent was fantastic! He waved the MPM coming back. Only problem was the $1200 in scam charges!

SEA-SFO(UA)-NRT(NH)-SIN(NH)-MEL(SQ) MEL-BKK(TG)-FRA(TG) FRA-EWR(UA) EWR-SFO(UA)-SEA(UA)

iPhones are amazing. I recently lost my laptop, so all research and booking was done using iphone and apps

*edit, put in airlines used.
very cool. So we confirm that published routing does not need the publishing carrier (ie the carrier that actually announces that this routing is being operated by them). excellent! thanks for reporting back.

re: iPhone - yeah I know eh that's why my site is mobile-compatible, as I'm in somewhat of a similar situation (not the losing of the laptop, but looking stuff up on the go).
Pseudo Nim is offline  
Old Mar 13, 2013, 3:45 pm
  #922  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Australia and Canada
Programs: Qantas FF Plat; Virgin Aust Plat;
Posts: 799
G’day all
Long post here, hope you don’t mind and hopefully some will be able to wade through it and comment. My thanks to krayZpaving, mountaingirl and Pseudo nim for help to this point.

My ideal itinerary is to go SYD-(SFO or LAX) <stopover> - JFK <turn-around> - IST <stopover> - SYD, using the 135,000 points required for Australia-Nth America return in J (but lets ignore J availability here).

This isn’t a ‘grand tour’, so I am OK with going the most direct route/least number of sectors, but don’t mind intermediate sectors if required. Obviously a few will be required – eg between SYD and SFO/LAX and IST-SYD. And as much as I admire them, I want to avoid AC and SQ.

I’d also like to avoid going via Asia on the way out.

I don’t think I can do this due to mileage limitation (ignoring any exceptions for published routing), and have an alternative starting and finishing at PER (Perth, Western Australia) – see Plan B below.

Ist Choice plan
SYD-JFK MPM5 on Expert Flyer is 12,544; MPM is 11947. There is no JFK-SYD MPM on Expert Flyer via Europe, so I assume only one MPM to be considered and it appears my total mile ‘pot’ is 12,544+11,947 = 24,491 (again, ignoring any exceptions). OK so far?

SYD - AKL (NZ) - SFO, stopover (NZ) - JFK, turn-around (UA) = 10,447 miles on Great Circle mapper
JFK - IST, stopover (TK or UA) - BKK (TK or TG) - SYD (TG) = 14,346 miles giving a total of 25,307 too much.

As the above is pretty much the most direct routings by *A airlines, I don’t think any combination of my “want” itinerary can be done, absent ‘exceptions’. Agree?

However can anyone see a reasonable case for an “exception” on ‘published routing’?

(ps even SYD - YVR (AC) - JFK (AC or UA) at 10,205 would make it just over the total allowed, but I don’t want to be on AC anyway).

So go to plan B
Starting and ending at PER (a bit out of my way, but OK; so is SYD).

PER - JFK MPM5 on Expert Flyer is 14,821. MPM is 14,116. Only via Pacific is given (and I’m surprised about that), so only 1 MPM in equation and my total miles pool is 14,821+14,116 = 28,937 OK?

PER - AKL (NZ) - SFO, stopover (NZ) - JFK, turn-around (UA) = 12,425 on Great Circle mapper
JFK - IST, stopover (TK) - BKK (TK or TG) - PER (TG) = 12,980 giving a total of 24,607 = acceptable OK? …

And room for some flexibility, such as JFK-ZRH or elsewhere in Europe, perhaps.

Comments on my logic at each stage welcomed, as well as my conclusions.
Thanks again!
RooFlyer is offline  
Old Mar 13, 2013, 3:49 pm
  #923  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
Sorry for not answering the entire post (running between two meetings), but one option you can consider regarding PER and JFK is JFK-LHR-JNB-PER, which is (I believe) a published routing on SA, or at least, a published routing SOMEWHERE, or at least fits within the MPM. This *has* been done by people. This might not EXACTLY fit your plans, but you could stop in LHR and do a side trip to IST. Not sure whether JFK-ZRH-JNB-PER would be allowed, I do not think anyone has tried this.

Of course, her Majesty's APD will be painful on LHR-JNB...
Pseudo Nim is offline  
Old Mar 13, 2013, 4:27 pm
  #924  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE-MM, BA Bronze, Marriott Titanium & lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,821
The "total miles pool" concept you've got there is wrong.

For your SYD-JFK "outward", you are allowed any flights over the Pacific up to a total of MPM5 = 12,544.
For your JFK-SYD "return", you are allowed any flights over the Pacific up to a total of MPM5=12,544.
Absent a published routing from another Star Alliance carrier, you are not allowed fly over the Atlantic from JFK-SYD.

It seems like, per PN's post, there are valid routings from NA to SYD via Europe. Best to search this thread : here : for itineraries that involve SYD and see what others have managed to do in that regard.
krayZpaving is offline  
Old Mar 13, 2013, 5:26 pm
  #925  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Australia and Canada
Programs: Qantas FF Plat; Virgin Aust Plat;
Posts: 799
Originally Posted by krayZpaving
The "total miles pool" concept you've got there is wrong.

For your SYD-JFK "outward", you are allowed any flights over the Pacific up to a total of MPM5 = 12,544.
For your JFK-SYD "return", you are allowed any flights over the Pacific up to a total of MPM5=12,544.
Absent a published routing from another Star Alliance carrier, you are not allowed fly over the Atlantic from JFK-SYD.

It seems like, per PN's post, there are valid routings from NA to SYD via Europe. Best to search this thread : here : for itineraries that involve SYD and see what others have managed to do in that regard.
Thanks again.

OK, I actually have more miles to play with. I have looked extensively through the 'booked and OK itineraries', belive me.

But what I'm still struggling with is :

Absent a published routing from another Star Alliance carrier, you are not allowed fly over the Atlantic from JFK-SYD.
* Why not, in this specific case, please? That is, what rule am I breaking?
* Where are these allowed routes "published"?
* What decides what particular carrier's "published" routes I can use in any part of the journey?
* I can do JFK-SYD or PER on standard *A scheduled routes; why can't I choose from these?

Hope I'm not wearing out my welcome, but I thought I had it figured out!
RooFlyer is offline  
Old Mar 14, 2013, 12:33 pm
  #926  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: dDiamond, A50K*G, AA Gold, Fairmont Plat, AMEX Plat, SPG Gold, Avis First
Posts: 60
Here's something different (I think at least)...I was wondering if you'd be able to include the Maldives on a trip...seems like it is fairly straight forward but haven't checked MPM etc.

YYZ-IST (TK) - Stop
IST-MLE (TK) - Stop
MLE-SIN (SQ)
SIN-NRT - Stop
NRT-LAXetc
LAX-YYZ

Would this work? Where would the Turn be?
Rosens222 is offline  
Old Mar 14, 2013, 1:42 pm
  #927  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
Originally Posted by RooFlyer
Thanks again.

* Why not, in this specific case, please? That is, what rule am I breaking?
* Where are these allowed routes "published"?
* What decides what particular carrier's "published" routes I can use in any part of the journey?
* I can do JFK-SYD or PER on standard *A scheduled routes; why can't I choose from these?

Hope I'm not wearing out my welcome, but I thought I had it figured out!
Ok. Reading a list of published fares on ExpertFlyer, here is what I come up with for JFK-SYD. I took LH as an example, as (logically speaking) we'd need to look at a European publishing carrier here.

Code:
1. NYC-AC/B6/CO/LH/UA-PHL-LH-AMS/BCN/BER/BFS/BHX/BOM/BRS/BRU/
    CPH/DEL/DUB/DUS/EDI/FRA/GLA/GVA/HAM/LIS/LON/MAD/MAN/MIL/
    MUC/OSL/PAR/ROM/SNN/STO/VIE/ZRH-LH-FRA/MUC-LH-BKK-LH/QF/
    TG-SYD
19. NYC-AC/B6/CO/LH/UA-YMQ/YOW/YTO-LH-AMS/BCN/BER/BFS/BHX/BOM/
    BRS/BRU/CPH/DEL/DUB/DUS/EDI/FRA/GLA/GVA/HAM/LIS/LON/MAD/
    MAN/MIL/MUC/OSL/PAR/ROM/SNN/STO/VIE/ZRH-LH-FRA/MUC-LH-SHA-
    CA-SYD
25. NYC-LH-AMS/BCN/BER/BFS/BHX/BOM/BRS/BRU/CPH/DEL/DUB/DUS/
    EDI/FRA/GLA/GVA/HAM/LIS/LON/MAD/MAN/MIL/MUC/OSL/PAR/ROM/
    SNN/STO/VIE/ZRH-LH-FRA/MUC-LH-SIN-LH/QF/SQ-SYD
So this would mean, to me, that you should be able to fly, for instance, NYC-PHL-AMS-FRA-BKK-SYD, with a few of the other city options in there.

Originally Posted by Rosens222
Here's something different (I think at least)...I was wondering if you'd be able to include the Maldives on a trip...seems like it is fairly straight forward but haven't checked MPM etc.

YYZ-IST (TK) - Stop
IST-MLE (TK) - Stop
MLE-SIN (SQ)
SIN-NRT - Stop
NRT-LAXetc
LAX-YYZ

Would this work? Where would the Turn be?
The turn would be SIN, but you would stop in MLE, so you would incur Asia2 mileage - but this should be entirely doable. I was actually considering doing this now that TK operates IST-MLE (except Asia2 is WAY too expensive on Aeroplan for my taste )
Pseudo Nim is offline  
Old Mar 15, 2013, 1:39 pm
  #928  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: dDiamond, A50K*G, AA Gold, Fairmont Plat, AMEX Plat, SPG Gold, Avis First
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim
The turn would be SIN, but you would stop in MLE, so you would incur Asia2 mileage - but this should be entirely doable. I was actually considering doing this now that TK operates IST-MLE (except Asia2 is WAY too expensive on Aeroplan for my taste )
Thanks - that's awesome. Couple questions:

1) Instead of going back NRT-YYZ could I return by NRT-FRA-MUC-YYZ for example? Or would this put me over MPM?

2) Given these legs as I've planned them, is it advisable to try for F or should I stick with J? - ie any real desirable flights and/or ones that would realistically have availability

3) Does the ANA tool and UA site always show the same availability? I haven't found any reference to this on the board. I am not finding any UA availability in J for some reason on ANA

4) For J availability, when do UA, TK, TG, NH, SQ release availabilty? Is there any rhyme or reason? I know F has changed so that any availability (say for LH, LX) is within a couple weeks - anything similar for J or is it just a matter of keep checking?

4b) Any suggestions from the experts on this board for good J product on legs that I've mapped above?

5) If I book a J reward is it possible (at all) to upgrade to an F reward later (buy paying $90 change fee)? Or do I need to book F up front? Can I book an F reward and "downgrade" to J if nothing opens up?

Thanks! I have scoured and searched looking for the answer to these q's!
Rosens222 is offline  
Old Mar 15, 2013, 2:02 pm
  #929  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
Originally Posted by Rosens222
Thanks - that's awesome. Couple questions:

1) Instead of going back NRT-YYZ could I return by NRT-FRA-MUC-YYZ for example? Or would this put me over MPM?

2) Given these legs as I've planned them, is it advisable to try for F or should I stick with J? - ie any real desirable flights and/or ones that would realistically have availability

3) Does the ANA tool and UA site always show the same availability? I haven't found any reference to this on the board. I am not finding any UA availability in J for some reason on ANA

4) For J availability, when do UA, TK, TG, NH, SQ release availabilty? Is there any rhyme or reason? I know F has changed so that any availability (say for LH, LX) is within a couple weeks - anything similar for J or is it just a matter of keep checking?

4b) Any suggestions from the experts on this board for good J product on legs that I've mapped above?

5) If I book a J reward is it possible (at all) to upgrade to an F reward later (buy paying $90 change fee)? Or do I need to book F up front? Can I book an F reward and "downgrade" to J if nothing opens up?

Thanks! I have scoured and searched looking for the answer to these q's!
1) Hmm, need to look it up. I started writing "no", but then realised that with a POT in HKG, I was able to fly HKG-KIX-FRA-MUC-YUL with no issue, so with SIN being the turnaround (but, conversely, being further away from NRT) it MIGHT just work. Need to check. But I'm sceptical.

2) I'd say J. Reason: YYZ-IST does not have F. IST-MLE does not have F. MLE-SIN will most likely not have F (since it's a regional product). SIN-NRT will have F that you will NEVER get (suites on the 388 or 77W). NRT-LAX you will probably not get F on NH, will definitely not get F on SQ, though you would probably be able to get NRT-ICN-LAX on OZ. LAX-YYZ does not have F, unless you're on United, in which case it doesn't have F anyway in anything other than name.

3) Generally they have the same availability (try my site, too). There's rarely availability on ANA J, unless you are looking for regional J (and not SIN-NRT: there's never any space on that for some reason).

4) Quite random. Watch for segments (using my site or some other one). TK seems to release them early (I picked up 2 seats almost 10 months out, been waiting for a third one to open, and no luck so far, 6 months later). Other airlines are somewhat lax with J space, too, I'd say.

4b) The TK business on their 333 will be good from YYZ. The local one to MLE will be (I think) on the 340, which isn't anything special. SQ J will be very nice from SIN to NRT if you can get it - a huge IF, unfortunately. ANA J will be recliners, nothing too special. Same for MLE-SIN, regional business. NRT-FRA, if you go that route and it's allowed, will be crappy recliners on a 380 (don't ask). If you route through MUC, make sure you find a route that features the 333, as all 333s operating ex-MUC are upgraded to new business, which is actually a nice product. If you fly over the Pacific, try to get on OZ so you can get Quadra Smartium (LAX / SFO / ORD routes). OR you can try NRT-SEA if they release the Dreamliners by then

5) You can upgrade anytime for $90 + any changes in taxes + extra points; but you CANNOT downgrade, so plan wisely. Don't upgrade to F for a single segment, unless it's some crazy 14 hour flight (and even then...).
Pseudo Nim is offline  
Old Mar 15, 2013, 2:37 pm
  #930  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: dDiamond, A50K*G, AA Gold, Fairmont Plat, AMEX Plat, SPG Gold, Avis First
Posts: 60
Thanks for the quick response! So here is what I'm finding availability for...albeit not for my exact dates as I'm still more than 365 days out but most of these seem to have decent availability.

Would you suggest anything different? (all in J). Don't mind paying YQ if it is worth the difference in J:

YYZ-EWR-IST (UA 757) STOP
or YYZ-YUL-ZRH-IST (LX A330) - can't find TK direct YYZ-IST
IST-MLE (TK A330) STOP
MLE-SIN (SQ A330)
SIN-NRT (SQ 777-3) STOP
NRT-ICN-LAX (OZ 747) edit: Quadra Smartium on the 747s or just 777s? If only 777s, reccommendation for a good NRT-LAX in J?
LAX-ORD-YYZ (UA A320)

Last edited by Rosens222; Mar 15, 2013 at 2:46 pm
Rosens222 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.