Mini RTW Questions

Old Jan 20, 2013, 6:10 am
  #796  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,440
Originally Posted by iamaho
Suggestions? Improvements? Any help is appreciated!
If you are going to pay hundereds in scamcharges, you may as well fly direct @:-) And you said, nice airlines, I dont understand why they are on AC then
rankourabu is offline  
Old Jan 20, 2013, 6:36 am
  #797  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
Originally Posted by iamaho
back again... thanks rankourabu and Pseudo Nim for the tips...

Now I got some dates and flights back from UA and ANA's searches...
I know that the airlines chosen are all subjected to massive scamcharges... I've warned them, but my parents don't seem to mind as much, as long as they get to fly the nicer airlines (they are in their 70s)

Is there any way to improve this?

September 18 (YYZ-ICN):
Option 1: YYZ-ICN, AC61 (777-300ER), J class
Option 2: YYZ-ORD-ICN, UA547 (319), J class / OZ235 (777-300ER), J class

September 24 (ICN-BKK):
Option 1: ICN-BKK, OZ741 (330), J class
Option 2: ICN-HKG-BKK, TG629 (777-200), J class

October 11 (BKK-HKG):
Option 1: BKK-HKG, TG638 (330), J class
Option 2: BKK-HKG, TG606 (747-400), J class

October 24 (HKG-YYZ):
Option 1: HKG-NRT-YYZ, UA78 (737-800), Y class / AC2 (777-300), J class
Option 2: HKG-ICN-YYZ, OZ746 (747-400), J class / AC62 (777-300), J class

The October 24 HKG-YYZ leg is toughest as there doesn't seem to have any availability... Even though OZ has J, the layover is insane. Y from HKG-NRT is the only available option. I even tried looking at HKG-IST-YYZ, but Turkish doesn't seem to have any seats in J.
Suggestions? Improvements? Any help is appreciated!
You need to figure out what's a priority: short trip, or "nicer" trip? I am assuming scamcharges are "not an issue" in the sense that this is a big trip for your parents, and one they don't do often, and therefore +/- $1K doesn't make much of a difference. Then consider finding space on:

- SIN-IST (so HKG-SIN-IST), then maybe ZRH-YUL if you get fabulously lucky
- IST-WAW-YYZ (if they don't mind flying on the 787, hehe)
- on the outbound: look into LAX or SFO or ORD-ICN on OZ, or same to NRT then ICN on NH
- if you want to be crazy and exotic, try BKK-ADD-YYZ (787 on the final leg), but your parents might disown you (or they might find this an awesome idea).

[edit] of course, do consider the more common LH/OS routings throu FRA, MUC, VIE (check the LH retrofit thread - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...-new-post.html - aim for the new 33P reconfigured Airbus 330/340s which finally have a lie-flat J).
Pseudo Nim is offline  
Old Jan 20, 2013, 10:53 am
  #798  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ARN
Programs: AC UA TK FI DL
Posts: 800
Originally Posted by rankourabu
If you are going to pay hundereds in scamcharges, you may as well fly direct @:-) And you said, nice airlines, I dont understand why they are on AC then
hahaha... well, I try to minimize the AC time... but it is only the return leg, which I am having so much trouble with, which ended up in AC... but...

Would this final leg be legal? (after YYZ-ORD-ICN-BKK-HKG...)

HKG-SIN, SQ891, J class
SIN-BKK-IST, SQ978 (J), TK69 (J)
IST-IAD-YYZ, TK7 (J), UA3475 (J)

BKK is backtracked via the SIN-IST routing... not sure if that is allowed (but that is the routing given when I put in SIN-IST)

Also, I could see this in United's MP search, but not in ANA... so does it mean it is not available?
iamaho is offline  
Old Jan 20, 2013, 11:11 am
  #799  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
Originally Posted by iamaho
hahaha... well, I try to minimize the AC time... but it is only the return leg, which I am having so much trouble with, which ended up in AC... but...

Would this final leg be legal? (after YYZ-ORD-ICN-BKK-HKG...)

HKG-SIN, SQ891, J class
SIN-BKK-IST, SQ978 (J), TK69 (J)
IST-IAD-YYZ, TK7 (J), UA3475 (J)

BKK is backtracked via the SIN-IST routing... not sure if that is allowed (but that is the routing given when I put in SIN-IST)

Also, I could see this in United's MP search, but not in ANA... so does it mean it is not available?
ANA does not always provide the same search results. Search using my site to corroborate UA.

Routing via BKK in the way you describe would not be legal because it's your destination. The fact that UA gives it to you doesn't mean much because it's out of context - sure, SIN-IST works that way in principle, but not when BKK is your ultimate destination - only when SIN is. So either you play your routing such that BKK is a stop and SIN is the destination (even for "only" 25 hours), or you will need to find alternate availability.

Also, don't forget you can reroute for $90 per person at a later date. Set a watch list on my site and it'll email you if something becomes available.
Pseudo Nim is offline  
Old Jan 20, 2013, 11:40 am
  #800  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ARN
Programs: AC UA TK FI DL
Posts: 800
yeah, I didn't think so...
just talked to my parents, and at their age (70s), they are more concerned with a shorter flight than saving on scamcharges... so it's looking like UA (Y) + AC (J) via HKG-NRT-YYZ for them...

I will set a watch list and reroute at a later date as per your suggestion! Thanks for all the help!!! definitely learned a lot

Also,
With the dates and flight numbers in hand... I'd just call Aeroplan and spoon feed them each segment to build the trip?

Last edited by iamaho; Jan 20, 2013 at 11:58 am Reason: Added question
iamaho is offline  
Old Jan 20, 2013, 11:59 am
  #801  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
Yep pretty much!
Pseudo Nim is offline  
Old Jan 20, 2013, 2:36 pm
  #802  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC
Posts: 379
Originally Posted by rankourabu
For those of you who used LO as a cheaper YQ TATL alternative

YYZ-WAW RT went from $237 a couple weeks ago to $565 now - in line with the AC/LH/OS ripoff scamchaarges.

Basically YQ free TATL options remain UA,US,SK,TK,SN,MS,SQ,ET and LX.
Website still shows $60.60 YQ each way (sample dates 11-18 Sep)
TelFunku is offline  
Old Jan 20, 2013, 5:20 pm
  #803  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,187
Originally Posted by iamaho
back again... thanks rankourabu and Pseudo Nim for the tips...

Now I got some dates and flights back from UA and ANA's searches...
I know that the airlines chosen are all subjected to massive scamcharges... I've warned them, but my parents don't seem to mind as much, as long as they get to fly the nicer airlines (they are in their 70s)

Is there any way to improve this?

September 18 (YYZ-ICN):
Option 1: YYZ-ICN, AC61 (777-300ER), J class
Option 2: YYZ-ORD-ICN, UA547 (319), J class / OZ235 (777-300ER), J class

September 24 (ICN-BKK):
Option 1: ICN-BKK, OZ741 (330), J class
Option 2: ICN-HKG-BKK, TG629 (777-200), J class

October 11 (BKK-HKG):
Option 1: BKK-HKG, TG638 (330), J class
Option 2: BKK-HKG, TG606 (747-400), J class

October 24 (HKG-YYZ):
Option 1: HKG-NRT-YYZ, UA78 (737-800), Y class / AC2 (777-300), J class
Option 2: HKG-ICN-YYZ, OZ746 (747-400), J class / AC62 (777-300), J class

The October 24 HKG-YYZ leg is toughest as there doesn't seem to have any availability... Even though OZ has J, the layover is insane. Y from HKG-NRT is the only available option. I even tried looking at HKG-IST-YYZ, but Turkish doesn't seem to have any seats in J.
Suggestions? Improvements? Any help is appreciated!

Just a couple of thoughts: If your folks don't care about YQ then why send them through the US? Personally I'd do it to fly OZ if it is their new J, but in my experience older travellers just want to get there with little hassle and some semblance of comfort. Do they have Nexus? If not, do you really want to subject them to the TSA nonsense at the mess that is ORD of all places? Not sure there is enough advantage to risk your relationship with them suggesting that! AC J direct will be much more convenient for them in the pods. Both OZ and TG flights mentioned in J from/to ICN are similar good soft product wise and not their best hard product, so once again, IMO direct seems best if the connections in ICN are ok. Also, more connections heading further west to make it an around the world trip may be novelty for them so that suggestion may be of interest and offer alternatives.
sp4294 is offline  
Old Jan 21, 2013, 6:50 am
  #804  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 39
Update- YYZ-Asia/Australia

After 3 hours on the phone, I didn't end up booking any flights.

At the start everything was going smoothly and I was able to get everything booked, but then when she tried to put it through, she said that it was over mileage on the return. This was the itinerary.

YYZ-IAD
IAD-SFO
SFO-AKL (Stop)
AKL-ZQN (had to do connecting, no availability)
ZQN-MEL (Destination/Turnaround)
MEL-PVG (less then 24 hr connect)
PVG-NRT (Stop)
NRT-SEA
SEA-YYZ

She said that even if I cut out the PVG connecting, I still wouldn't be able to book. The only way I was going to have this work is if I had a direct back from NRT to YYZ and there was no availability. She said even if I went MEL-SIN-PVG-NRT, I would be more over the mileage so that wouldn't work. I was trying to book in Y class as well.

Does anyone know if there was something she could have done to make this work? I asked if she could do an exception cause doing the direct would be great, but I was ok with the connecting. I was thinking the connecting is more of an inconvenience compared to the direct and since there was no direct, perhaps something could be done. Unfortunately, she said that there was nothing she could cause they have to follow the rules.

Is the mileage rule for this route - YYZ-MEL multiple by 1.2 to get the total mileage for the return and I start to minus for each leg of the trip to return?

I was hoping that this could be done, but from the looks, you can't use united on the return and you have to use AC.
coconutjay is offline  
Old Jan 21, 2013, 7:03 am
  #805  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
Actually, it has nothing to do with UA vs AC. The agent was probably right that this is way over MPM; but you should explore if a published routing exists which would make this possible (you will probably need to lose PVG, though). I guess you would need to lose SEA, as well, as likely the published routing will be through LAX or something.

Regarding the MPM - it's MPM+5%, and you can SORT OF calculate using gcmap, it's mostly accurate.

So my suggestion - first, figure out the valid published routings on MEL-YYZ.
Pseudo Nim is offline  
Old Jan 21, 2013, 9:26 am
  #806  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 39
Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim
Actually, it has nothing to do with UA vs AC. The agent was probably right that this is way over MPM; but you should explore if a published routing exists which would make this possible (you will probably need to lose PVG, though). I guess you would need to lose SEA, as well, as likely the published routing will be through LAX or something.

Regarding the MPM - it's MPM+5%, and you can SORT OF calculate using gcmap, it's mostly accurate.

So my suggestion - first, figure out the valid published routings on MEL-YYZ.
What does a published routing mean and where can I look these up?

I didn't mind losing the PVG routing and didn't mind routing through LAX (which airlines would do this?)

There is only a few routings that work for NRT as a stop (necessary stop) from MEL. From the aeroplan website and ANA and United, I either have to go through SIN and/or ICN, which would still put me over MPM. She said that a direct from NRT to YYZ was necessary, are you suggesting that NRT to LAX to YYZ would equate similar MPM?

What is the purpose of finding the published routing for MEL to YYZ?

Thank you for your advice.
coconutjay is offline  
Old Jan 21, 2013, 9:36 am
  #807  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YYZ
Programs: Nexus
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by coconutjay
What does a published routing mean and where can I look these up?

I didn't mind losing the PVG routing and didn't mind routing through LAX (which airlines would do this?)

There is only a few routings that work for NRT as a stop (necessary stop) from MEL. From the aeroplan website and ANA and United, I either have to go through SIN and/or ICN, which would still put me over MPM. She said that a direct from NRT to YYZ was necessary, are you suggesting that NRT to LAX to YYZ would equate similar MPM?

What is the purpose of finding the published routing for MEL to YYZ?

Thank you for your advice.
You will find it easier to determine what can and can't work if you peruse this link. Once you know what has been confirmed to have worked, you just start to look at flight availability using one of the online tools. Read this post to get started.

So long as you have a valid mini rtw, you don't have to worry about whether something is a valid connection to get to a certain location. You are allowed 3 stops (more than 24 hrs), including your destination and a total of 10 segments. You can't layover for more than 24 hours at any location once you have established your 3 stops but all this is explained brilliantly in the link.

Good luck.
cmgalan is offline  
Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:28 am
  #808  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 39
Originally Posted by cmgalan
You will find it easier to determine what can and can't work if you peruse this link. Once you know what has been confirmed to have worked, you just start to look at flight availability using one of the online tools. Read this post to get started.

So long as you have a valid mini rtw, you don't have to worry about whether something is a valid connection to get to a certain location. You are allowed 3 stops (more than 24 hrs), including your destination and a total of 10 segments. You can't layover for more than 24 hours at any location once you have established your 3 stops but all this is explained brilliantly in the link.

Good luck.
Thanks for the link cmglan, I actually read about 50% of that discussion (it is extremely long) and I did not find anyone with the same itinerary as what I was putting together. I learned alot from it and if I do get a booking, I will definitely add to it. On that forum, there weren't many doing MEL to NRT via China.

I just checked online, and it appears AC put up more direct flights, so my itinerary should work, I just have to pay more YQ (the total she quoted me was 601 for the whole thing in Y. The AC return kicked it up a couple of hundred I think.
coconutjay is offline  
Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:29 am
  #809  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC
Posts: 379
I wonder how AC MPMs are set and maintained. Last week I was surprised to find that YYZ-IST-UFA (shortest possible *A route) is in fact over MPM. It still squeaks in under +5% (or as a published TK routing), but then stopovers in US or Northern/Southern Europe are effectively ruled out.
TelFunku is offline  
Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:48 pm
  #810  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,440
Originally Posted by TelFunku
I wonder how AC MPMs are set and maintained. Last week I was surprised to find that YYZ-IST-UFA (shortest possible *A route) is in fact over MPM. It still squeaks in under +5% (or as a published TK routing), but then stopovers in US or Northern/Southern Europe are effectively ruled out.
Its not an AC MPM - MPM is set internationally (by IATA?)

here is an example for YYZ-UFA (interestingly you could route it via Pacific!)

[KVS Availability Tool 7.1.2 - Reference: Maximum Permitted Mileage [MPM]: YYZ-UFA]
Code:
                                                                
         GI       M      5M     10M     15M     20M     25M     
MPM      AT    6474    6797    7121    7445    7768    8092     
MPM      PA   11163   11721   12279   12837   13395   13953
The problem is that AE uses a very restrictive MPM5M, while others such as US used 25M, and others none at all. I am not aware for any other ffp using such restrictive MPM for rewards as AE does.
rankourabu is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.