How do stopovers work?
 

I just got off the phone with a VERY unhelpful a rude agent. I called in to ask about how stopovers work and if one would work on an upcoming trip. She basically told me I could not, and to quote her "sir to understand our ticketing policies you would have to take a ticketing course"

I was shocked at her statement as I was just trying to educate myself on how the rules work. So, I figured instead of trying to get any further with her I'd turn to my friends here for help as there is more knowledge on this board then with her.

I will try to explain my question as best I can.

I would like to book a revenue ticket YYZ to PEK or PVG (stop for a week) continue to BKK (stop for 2 weeks) continue back to YYZ.

Is it possible to do this with a YYZ-BKK ticket with a stop in PEK or PVG instead of the fare being calculated as 3 different sectors?

The agent did tell me I would be allowed 1 stop free, but routing through China would be over the allowable milage for the fare. The website usually shows YYZ-BKK connecting in either NRT or HKG. But Expert Flyer shows routes through all sorts of cities including PEK and PVG.

I was also able to book an Award flight for a colleague through PVG a few months ago, although the agent told me Award Flights have completely different rules.

I hope I've explained my question clearly. In the end I know it's not a problem to get a ticket like this booked, but I was hoping booking it as a stopover instead of a multi city would save me a great deal of cash.

Thanks for you help.

You talking about an Air Canada revenue ticket, or an Aeroplan award?

Revenue ticket.

Sorry I mentioned the Award Ticket in there only because I was able to use the PVG routing on it just last month.

Keep in mind that the agent may have just been trying to impress upon you the complexity of ticketing rules and not intended to be rude.

ITA finds the cheapest YYZ-PEK-BKK-YYZ fare using three fare segments. Looks like either it can't be done as two, as the agent said, or it's not worthwhile to.

Your best education is searches on ITA like:
yyz:: pek /f ac.yto+bkk
bkk:: /f ac.bkk+yto

You'll find that AC's through-fares with stopovers are possible, but only in unrestricted (expensive!) fare classes. Save the cash & book a ticket combining three fares.

Does anyone know - what's the logic to this? What's wrong with allowing stopovers (of say, 1 to 2 weeks) on less expensive fares?

What's wrong? How can you make more expensive fares being worth more if you don't play these tricks? :D

Hi

Try www.toureast.com and give them a call.

+1

Higher value to you, higher priced fare, makes sense to me.

All fares i've seen on the website, including the cheapest seem to include 1 stop over.

Stopovers:
From: Toronto, ON (YYZ - Pearson Int'l)
To: Bangkok, (BKK - Bangkok Int'l)
Fare Basis Code: WKXCS
FCL: WKXCS TRF: 864 RULE: ACFR BK: W
PTC: ADT-ADULT FTC: XEX-REGULAR EXCURSION
SO.STOPOVERS
BASE FARE
BETWEEN CANADA AND AREA 3 NOTE - GENERAL RULE DOES NOT
APPLY

2 STOPOVERS PERMITTED
LIMITED TO 1 FREE AND 1 AT CAD 100.00.
CHILD/INFANT DISCOUNTS APPLY.


I guess what I was hoping was to use a fare like this but route through Beijing instead. I see it as a possible routing on Expert Flyer. But from what I can understand now from the responses is that by changing the routing (even though it is a proper one) changes the base fare. So in essence I CAN do the stop over for free, but the fare goes up because I want to use a more expensive routing? Correct?

YYZ-BKK is a routing based fare with specific cities that you can route through enroute to BKK. Neither PVG or PEK are one of these cities...which means the fare will always be broken and not priced as a through fare. NRT and HKG are the only cities eligible for this route.

You might be better off purchasing a YYZ-PEK/PVG ticket and a seperate to BKK....or just pay the higher price.

You could check other airlines as their routing rules might be different. Air China has a fare routing through JFK and PEK - YYZ-JFK on AA.

Thanks Chris,

That makes sense. I guess the reason I was confused is I see a routing on Expert Flyer when I search Flight availability.

AC 87 0 YYZ
07/22/10 1:05 PM PVG
07/23/10 3:15 PM 77L
T,Th
72% / 26m J9 C9 D9 Z9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 S9 L9 G9 R9


MU (TG) 8451 0 PVG
07/23/10 5:20 PM BKK
07/23/10 9:15 PM 747
Daily
81% / 19m YA KA BA EA HA LA MA NA RA SA VA TA WA XA GA QA


But it is true I have never seen this routing available on the AC Website.

Thanks everyone for your help. I think I have a better understanding now. It has more to do with available cities then Maximum allowable milage, (as the agent indicated).

Chris how do you see that only NRT and HKG are the only cities allowed? Or is it just known because that's all that comes up when searching on the AC Website?

I think Expertflyer (and perhaps other sites) when you do a flight availability it only looks for valid connecting flights but doesn't actually check to see if it's a valid routing. In Expertflyer you have to check Fare Information > Routing Rules. For YYZ-BKK on AC it looks like this:

YTO-BKK THU-11MAR10 AC
TAXES/FEES NOT INCLUDED
ADULT FARES
CX FARE FARE C AP MIN/ SEASONS...... MR GI DT
CAD BASIS MAX
1 AC 898.00R LLXCST L | /6M 24DEC9-24MAY0 R PA D

SPECIFIED ROUTE: 0302
YTO-YWG-YVR-HKG(TG/CX/AC)BKK
YTO-YYC-YEA-YVR-HKG(TG/CX/AC)BKK
YTO-YEA-YYC-YVR-HKG(TG/CX/AC)BKK
YTO-YWG-YVR-TYO(TG/NH/UA/AC)BKK
YTO-YYC-YEA-YVR-TYO(TG/NH/UA/AC)BKK
YTO-YEA-YYC-YVR-TYO(TG/NH/UA/AC)BKK
YTO-YWG-YVR-HKG/TYO(CX/TG/UA/OZ/AC)BKK
YTO-YYC-YEA-YVR-HKG/TYO(CX/TG/UA/OZ/AC)BKK
YTO-YEA-YYC-YVR-HKG/TYO(CX/TG/UA/OZ/AC)BKK

You're right...MPM can be only part of the equation depending on the route. Routing rules can be different for each airline...so it doesn't hurt to check others, which may actually put you on an AC flight if there are codeshares in play.

Thanks Chris,

It all makes sense now, and I really appreciate everyone's help. I feel much more informed.

If anything what I think I've learned about this specific itinerary is that it would seem there is a lot of value in booking this as a reward flight compared to a revenue ticket.

THATS AC for you. However agent was probably right, except i doubt that YYZ to BKK via China would exceed Maximum Allowable millage, which is normally about 120 % of non-stop distance ( YYZ/BKK) PVG and PEK are almost along a direct path ans should not cause too much extra milage. Suggest that you call again and challenge agent to state exactly what the Maximum Allowable Milaege YYZ to BKK is. Then calculate for yourself YYZ-PEK/PVG - BKK and see if you fall within.