Stranger

Funny, I always thought that was Patton, but you are right it was McAuliffe.

why fly

yah me also! Its better thinking Patton said it.

tcook052

History, like airlines, isn't always about convenience.

acysb87

Likely a TV version seen on a working AVOD near you

Stranger

Depends upon who teaches it. Which country you live in. In some places it's all about nation building.

My daughter was taught about the American revolution twice. Once in California. Following year in Canada. Seems like it was an eye opener.

Don't get me going about how the Vietnam war started and this poor South Vietnam that the US went in to protect. Except, they had to invent it first.

Or how China still sees the last Manchu dynasty as one of theirs.

How France still reveres the Corsican adventurer who bled them to death.

And the list goes on.

tcook052

It didn't take much. But back to the topic at hand does anyone know whether AC can appeal such a decision from the CTA or are these rulings not subject to appeal?

RCyyz

On the one hand, the ruling is unfair because it only applies to AC with an expectation that other airlines will follow. Furthermore, the ruling only applies (I think) to AC and not to other industries. If AC needs to offer a nut-free zone it follows that all forms of transit such as public transit, Greyhound busses, Via rail etc will need to do the same. After all, it's entirely conceivable that Sophia Huyer may one day take one of these forms of transit so we must all do everything possible to protect her and others like her musn't we?

On the other hand, here's a golden opportunity for AC to stop serving nuts altogether and save $50 per flight in nut costs.

Nonetheless, I would hope that AC protests this action for the simple reason that it prevents them from operating freely as a business entity. While obvious things like seatbelts, functioning escape slides and the like merit legislation / regulation, external oversight on serving of nuts or wine or content of the AVODs etc goes too far IMHO.

Stranger

I think i'll go to the CTA and ask for a perfume-free zone.

BTW does anyone knows if Sophia Huyer uses perfume?

Stranger

Of course it does not.

But eh, your editing was,shall I say, creative...

(Not that I really mind.)

antirealist

WJ seems to have adopted that strategy some time ago.

WR Cage

This ruling is a diamond in the rough. I am hopeful that some good can come out of the process.

First off, we should really look past the media sensationalism and go straight to the horse's mouth, CTA ruling enclosed:
http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/decision-ru...29230&lang=eng

In each of the two applicant cases, the CTA did not find undue hardship. The remaining problem the CTA wants AC to fix is the ad-hoc nature of responses to allergic passenger situations.

I found some salient points that should put the "sky is falling" nut loving passengers at ease.
• Banning nuts from the entire airplane is not possible and not required due to air circulation system that is equivalent to medical operating room standards.
• CTA has asked Air Canada to come up with a formal policy to handle nut allergy situations.
• The CTA has allowed AC to establish a buffer zone where passengers are asked not to consume nuts and where AC will not sell nuts to those rows when an allergic passenger is present. The ruling itself mentions this buffer zone can be very small, smaller than a full seating section of the economy.
• AC is not required to inform or place restrictions on the whole airplane rather only those pax in the buffer zone need to be asked not to consume nuts. Note there is no requirement for a nut free zone, rather AC has specific requirements of passenger notification and no nut sale zone.
• Reseating J class passengers in economy is acceptable accommodation, specific reference was made to a flight by Dr Huyer. AC accommodation of reseat from J class to Y class was considered acceptable by CTA.

In my opinion, this ruling helps us frequent flyers in the following capacity:
1. Current ad hoc approach has some FAs making last minute changes to service standards throughout the aircraft (e.g no almonds in J class, no cashew sales in Y). Establishment of a formal policy for handling nut allergic passengers will remove this possibility. We get greater consistency in service standards.
2. Requirement for nut allergic passengers to provide advance notice will allow for AC to establish an economy only nut buffer zone. Essentially J pax will no longer be able to force service standard adjustments, especially last minute service standard adjustments. The J class pax with a nut allergy will be offered a reseat to economy cabin.
3. Because a buffer zone in the Elite seating section of economy could affect J service standards, it is unlikely that this section will become the buffer zone. Rather the last rows of economy are more likely to be utilized. This will further reduce negative impact on services provided to E, SE, *G.

This ruling has the potential to bring about some common sense solutions to the issue of handling nut allergic passengers. This common sense approach is a lot better than current practice in most schools whereby one nut allergic student places restrictions on the other 400 students.

Stranger

"[73] Air Canada further submits, in response to the same question noted above, that there are a number of common misconceptions regarding the quality of cabin air which are addressed in two publications it submitted: The Airplane Cabin Environment: Issues Pertaining to Flight Attendant Comfort by Elwood H. Hunt and David R. Space and Cabin Air Comfort by David Carlile. Air Canada explains that among the misconceptions addressed, one is that cabin air has a higher level of particle contamination. It submits that tests have shown that the mean particle concentration in cabin air is lower than or equal to fresh air particle concentration. Air Canada further submits that the particle contamination level has been shown to be lower than in the average work environment. Air Canada explains that low particle contamination on the aircraft is due to a variety of factors, including the direct control of the location of passengers relative to the air ventilation system, the effectiveness of the filtering system and the much larger quantity of outside air flow per cubic volume than in most other environments.

[74] As set out above, in response to a request by the Agency to provide further information on the effectiveness of the filtration systems on Air Canada's aircraft in removing allergens in cabin air, Air Canada submits that another misconception is that disease is easily spread through the ventilation system of the aircraft. Air Canada explains that the recirculation filters in aircraft are similar to filters used in critical wards in hospitals and in industrial "clean rooms". The above-noted Airplane Cabin Environment paper submitted by Air Canada provides the examples of organ transplant and burn units in describing critical wards in hospitals. It submits that on measurement, the concentration of germs per cubic metre was found to be lower in an aircraft cabin than the recommended germ concentration in hospital operating theatres, new-born baby wards and intensive care wards. Air Canada explains that "in contrast", the filtration systems in a typical building are incapable of removing microbial contaminants including bacteria and viruses from recirculated air.

[75] In the Airplane Cabin Environment paper, it is explained that the outside air supplied to the cabin of the Boeing 767 aircraft is provided by engine compressors, cooled by air-conditioning packs and mixed with an equal quantity of filtered and recirculated air. It is also explained that this is typical of modern generation aircraft. Approximately 20 cubic feet per minute (cfm) of air per passenger is provided, of which half is filtered recirculated air and half is outside air. This results in a complete cabin air exchange every two to three minutes.

[76] The paper also explains that low contaminant levels in the cabin are realized due to the tight control over outgassing of components used in the aircraft furnishings, direct control over the location of passengers relative to the supply and exhaust, the effectiveness of the recirculation system to remove essentially all microbials and particulates from the recirculated air, the dry, sterile and dust-free outside supply air during flight and the supply of a much larger quantity of outside airflow per cubic volume of space compared to most environments.

[77] The paper describes that air enters the passenger cabin from overhead distribution outlets which are designed to create carefully controlled circular airflow patterns in the cabin. The exhaust air leaves the cabin through return air grilles located in the sidewalls near the floor. The cabin ventilation system is designed and balanced so that air supplied at one seat row leaves at approximately the same row, minimizing airflow in the fore and aft directions. By controlling fore and aft airflow, the potential for spreading passenger-generated contaminants is minimized.

[78] Finally, the authors address perceptions of the cabin environment and, among them, contaminant build-up in the cabin. It is noted that a perception persists that there is a build-up of contaminants in the cabin on newer model aircraft due to the incorporation of recirculation systems and a subsequent reduction in the outside airflow. However, they state that study results from credible independent organisations (including the US Department of Transportation) show that the high efficiency filtration system and a large quantity of outside airflow supplied to the cabin maintain low particulate levels in the cabin."

CApreppie

Tyranny of the nuts. Ridiculous rule. Sorry to those who are allergic to nuts, but if you're worried bring your inhalers and meds and a mask.

Why don't we just all get hermetically sealed in body bags before boarding?

nolens volans

Wearing scent to cover up one's poor hygiene : sort of like playing polka music at full volume to drown out the sound of a vacuum cleaner.

And here I thought it was Cambronne at Waterloo (only more pithily, et en français).

Stranger

Merde alors.