Advice/wisdom sought from FTer's
Nov 30, 2009, 3:09 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa
Programs: AC SE*MM/S100K; HHonors Diamond; a bunch of others at various levels!
Posts: 1,580
Advice/wisdom sought from FTer's
Hi,
I have been an Elite for the last decade (ever since AC completed its takeover of CP) and have routinely accumulated ~50,000 miles per year. This year has been extraordinary, and when I return later this week from the trip I'm curently on, I should have a little more than 88,000 miles.
I've read of several FTers making mileage runs, usually to maintain status. I have been quite content with Elite status. However, this is likely a once in a lifetime opportunity to make SE. However, I am sure that my travel will return to sane (
) levels next year and I will once again be an Elite in 2011.
My only reason for considering a MR for SE is that I plan to take my family to Japan/China next summer, and will need 4 reward tickets, with little flexibility on dates (I am travelling for work). Right now I have ~300,000 miles, enough for 4 economy YOW-NRT-PEK-YOW reward tickets. I am willing to buy extra miles for business tickets, which would cost 400,000 miles (the NRT-PEK segment is *A). My understanding is that getting 4 ExecutiveFirst tickets for this trip on the same flights is highly unlikely, unless I was SE and used IKK. However, if AE keeps IKK at a 30% premium, then I am even further from my goal, and would need to buy even more miles.
At some point this becomes ridiculous. I just can't figure out what that point is. A 12,000 mile MR would mean going further than HNL (my first idea), so I am considering YOW-NRT-YOW, which would be about 13,786 miles (enough to pass the SE threshold), plus double miles for the YYZ-NRT and NRT-YVR segments (about another 11,000 or so). I can do that for about $1000 (a few dates left that would work) which is about $0.04 mile.
Any rumours from the various "do's" that some of you have attended about the future of IKK? If it doesn't reduce from the 30% premium that it is at this year, then I think all this is for nought, as I would need to buy too many additional miles. Unless, of course, I was able to find two "regular" business class seats and only had to buy two with IKK.
Right now I see too many variables (and not enough miles in my account). However, it still seems tempting to do a MR. Any suggestions for a different MR? A different way to book 4 reward business seats? Or should I just walk away, as I'll never be this close to SE again?
Guidance, suggestions, etc. are all welcome.
GJS - yow
I have been an Elite for the last decade (ever since AC completed its takeover of CP) and have routinely accumulated ~50,000 miles per year. This year has been extraordinary, and when I return later this week from the trip I'm curently on, I should have a little more than 88,000 miles.
I've read of several FTers making mileage runs, usually to maintain status. I have been quite content with Elite status. However, this is likely a once in a lifetime opportunity to make SE. However, I am sure that my travel will return to sane (
) levels next year and I will once again be an Elite in 2011.My only reason for considering a MR for SE is that I plan to take my family to Japan/China next summer, and will need 4 reward tickets, with little flexibility on dates (I am travelling for work). Right now I have ~300,000 miles, enough for 4 economy YOW-NRT-PEK-YOW reward tickets. I am willing to buy extra miles for business tickets, which would cost 400,000 miles (the NRT-PEK segment is *A). My understanding is that getting 4 ExecutiveFirst tickets for this trip on the same flights is highly unlikely, unless I was SE and used IKK. However, if AE keeps IKK at a 30% premium, then I am even further from my goal, and would need to buy even more miles.
At some point this becomes ridiculous. I just can't figure out what that point is. A 12,000 mile MR would mean going further than HNL (my first idea), so I am considering YOW-NRT-YOW, which would be about 13,786 miles (enough to pass the SE threshold), plus double miles for the YYZ-NRT and NRT-YVR segments (about another 11,000 or so). I can do that for about $1000 (a few dates left that would work) which is about $0.04 mile.
Any rumours from the various "do's" that some of you have attended about the future of IKK? If it doesn't reduce from the 30% premium that it is at this year, then I think all this is for nought, as I would need to buy too many additional miles. Unless, of course, I was able to find two "regular" business class seats and only had to buy two with IKK.
Right now I see too many variables (and not enough miles in my account). However, it still seems tempting to do a MR. Any suggestions for a different MR? A different way to book 4 reward business seats? Or should I just walk away, as I'll never be this close to SE again?
Guidance, suggestions, etc. are all welcome.
GJS - yow
Nov 30, 2009, 3:28 pm
#2
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: I'm From Here
Programs: AC*SE & MM/*Wood Gold/HHonors Diamond/Marriott Silver/AirMiles Gold
Posts: 4,562
I would guess you would have to calculate the cost of the value of IKK vs the $1,000.
SE is one of those things that if you fly enough, you generally use most of what is offered, if you don't you probably wouldn't know it is even there.
I would look here as well http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-deals-372/
To maximize your $/mile.
Good luck!
SE is one of those things that if you fly enough, you generally use most of what is offered, if you don't you probably wouldn't know it is even there.
I would look here as well http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-deals-372/
To maximize your $/mile.
Good luck!
Nov 30, 2009, 5:30 pm
#6
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: YEG
Posts: 3,925
Do the MR, get the miles.
In early December we'll find out what next year's benefits are. You can probably take advantage of the SE benefits as soon as your status is recognized in the system. You should be able to book at 30% IKK (assuming that is advantageous to you) until the end of February 2010. If IKK is eliminated, you won't have to worry about booking so soon. If it goes up, you should be able to book at the current levels. Caution - no guarantee that the above will work.
When I first hit SE a few years ago, I was able to take advantage of all of the previous year's benefits (except those I did not have certs, etc. for) even though technically I was not a SE for another couple of months.
In early December we'll find out what next year's benefits are. You can probably take advantage of the SE benefits as soon as your status is recognized in the system. You should be able to book at 30% IKK (assuming that is advantageous to you) until the end of February 2010. If IKK is eliminated, you won't have to worry about booking so soon. If it goes up, you should be able to book at the current levels. Caution - no guarantee that the above will work.
When I first hit SE a few years ago, I was able to take advantage of all of the previous year's benefits (except those I did not have certs, etc. for) even though technically I was not a SE for another couple of months.
Nov 30, 2009, 5:45 pm
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,624
I'd go for it.
When you book your holiday, do not try booking all four tickets at once. You may find that you can get one or two (or three) of the tickets without the 30% IKK premium. (If 3 seats are available at the regular price but the fourth requires IKK, you get dinged the IKK rate on all four seats).
Worst case scenario, pay for three seats and then either buy one J ticket or buy a Y ticket and use a cert to upgrade that person. If buying a ticket, you might want to buy YOW-NRT/PEK-YOW and then use a reward redemption for the NRT-PEK flight, which is usually quite epxensive.
Note: to access IKK for international flights, you either need to be one of the people redeeming J tickets or you need to buy a J ticket. You can not buy a Y ticket for yourself and get J IKK for the family.
When you book your holiday, do not try booking all four tickets at once. You may find that you can get one or two (or three) of the tickets without the 30% IKK premium. (If 3 seats are available at the regular price but the fourth requires IKK, you get dinged the IKK rate on all four seats).
Worst case scenario, pay for three seats and then either buy one J ticket or buy a Y ticket and use a cert to upgrade that person. If buying a ticket, you might want to buy YOW-NRT/PEK-YOW and then use a reward redemption for the NRT-PEK flight, which is usually quite epxensive.
Note: to access IKK for international flights, you either need to be one of the people redeeming J tickets or you need to buy a J ticket. You can not buy a Y ticket for yourself and get J IKK for the family.
Nov 30, 2009, 5:48 pm
#8
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: YOW
Programs: AC-SE100K, AC-3MM, Marriott- LT Titanium, SPG RIP
Posts: 2,958
[QUOTE=YEG USER;12902149]Do the MR, get the miles.[QUOTE]
I agree. Get the miles and SE status...if only for the one year- take advantage of the status for your family vacation...
Plumber
I agree. Get the miles and SE status...if only for the one year- take advantage of the status for your family vacation...
Plumber
Nov 30, 2009, 6:31 pm
#9
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,990
Forgive me for interjecting...
I'd just like to add this thread is eactly what I joined FT for in the first place - an informative, constructive question, followed by all kinds of informative, constructive advice.
Now I'm thinking of doing the same MR myself for the exact same reason!
Cheers,
I'd just like to add this thread is eactly what I joined FT for in the first place - an informative, constructive question, followed by all kinds of informative, constructive advice.
Now I'm thinking of doing the same MR myself for the exact same reason!
Cheers,
Nov 30, 2009, 6:37 pm
#10
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YVR
Programs: AC E75, SPG Plat, HH peon-by-choice (ex Gold)
Posts: 8,090
Personally, I don't see the value proposition.
You spend the $1K but need an extra 30% (~120K more miles) on top of the 100K miles you're going to buy to snag IKK. Even if you need half that, that's going to be 160K miles you'll have to buy. At $0.04 a mile, that's $6400 and you still have to add on your $1K mileage run.
You spend the $1K but need an extra 30% (~120K more miles) on top of the 100K miles you're going to buy to snag IKK. Even if you need half that, that's going to be 160K miles you'll have to buy. At $0.04 a mile, that's $6400 and you still have to add on your $1K mileage run.
Nov 30, 2009, 7:21 pm
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; BonvoyPlat; IHGPlat/Amb; HiltonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesPlat
Posts: 38,186
Go for it. You'll start earning 100% redeemable miles instead of 50% so you may not have to buy that many additional miles for your trip next summer. And with IKK you don't have to book until a month or two out, giving you a quarter year or more to earn more miles rather than buy them. Or you can book the kids now at 75K each, then build up miles for you and your wife. Though I do agree that you and your wife should do J and leave the kids in the back: 2x130K+2x100K=460K. They won't really appreciate it, or will become spoiled and never accept a seat in Y again...and then you'll really be in trouble. (You might also consider just getting award tickets for your family and fly revenue yourself to keep the SMs up there for 2011/12 requalification, using a SSWU to get into J. The cost may be pretty close to what you could pay to purchase the top up miles, so that's another value proposition to give thought to.)
The $1000 will bring you IKK -- I cannot see it getting any worse than last year's change -- and the 100% mileage bonus (which could offset a significant cost of buying miles for those awards), plus an extra pair of SSWUs at 45K that Elites don't get. You'll also appreciate the one-week upgrade window for using SSWUs.
So go ahead and do a MR to NRT. Book a hotel in the airport district and take a shuttle bus into the town for a very pleasant day before heading back for your return flight. And of course, use those SSWUs you earned at the 75K mark. Bring a couple of good books along and have a nice little vacation.
The $1000 will bring you IKK -- I cannot see it getting any worse than last year's change -- and the 100% mileage bonus (which could offset a significant cost of buying miles for those awards), plus an extra pair of SSWUs at 45K that Elites don't get. You'll also appreciate the one-week upgrade window for using SSWUs.
So go ahead and do a MR to NRT. Book a hotel in the airport district and take a shuttle bus into the town for a very pleasant day before heading back for your return flight. And of course, use those SSWUs you earned at the 75K mark. Bring a couple of good books along and have a nice little vacation.
Last edited by Shareholder; Nov 30, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Nov 30, 2009, 7:28 pm
#12
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: YEG
Posts: 3,925
Personally, I don't see the value proposition.
You spend the $1K but need an extra 30% (~120K more miles) on top of the 100K miles you're going to buy to snag IKK. Even if you need half that, that's going to be 160K miles you'll have to buy. At $0.04 a mile, that's $6400 and you still have to add on your $1K mileage run.
You spend the $1K but need an extra 30% (~120K more miles) on top of the 100K miles you're going to buy to snag IKK. Even if you need half that, that's going to be 160K miles you'll have to buy. At $0.04 a mile, that's $6400 and you still have to add on your $1K mileage run.
1. Regardless of the use of IKK for your family vacation, if you have the time and money, go for it. After a year of SE only you will be judge if it was worth it or not. There are other benefits such as concierge, 100% bonus miles, additional certs that could make your flying next year more enjoyable. I know that I'm going to miss being SE next year.
2. I would avoid buying extra miles for this. For $6400 you can probably buy yourself a discounted J ticket. This way you can also earn miles for next year's qualification period. Either that or IKK yourself and others and use upgrade cert for someone else.
3. Try and book as many tickets as you can without using IKK, only use IKK for what you need save miles where you can.
Nov 30, 2009, 7:47 pm
#13
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,103
My 2 cents:
Walk away - it is not worth it.
Each J seat will cost you 149,500 (IKK+30%)
You are highly unlikely to get a classic reward to Asia. And if you can, you have no extra access as an elite vs. se
I was in your shoes last year except I was sitting on 700k ae miles already. But if you don't have the points are thinking about buying them to top off your current balance the economics of the whole thing falls apart pretty fast. And don't forget to factor in the ae taxes and fees. Currently to asia I'm seeing around 150$ (Europe is 450$!)
Plus also think about any changes you may have to make. With AE you are looking at 360$ (4*90) if you need to make a change.
Walk away - it is not worth it.
Each J seat will cost you 149,500 (IKK+30%)
You are highly unlikely to get a classic reward to Asia. And if you can, you have no extra access as an elite vs. se
I was in your shoes last year except I was sitting on 700k ae miles already. But if you don't have the points are thinking about buying them to top off your current balance the economics of the whole thing falls apart pretty fast. And don't forget to factor in the ae taxes and fees. Currently to asia I'm seeing around 150$ (Europe is 450$!)
Plus also think about any changes you may have to make. With AE you are looking at 360$ (4*90) if you need to make a change.
Nov 30, 2009, 7:57 pm
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa
Programs: AC SE*MM/S100K; HHonors Diamond; a bunch of others at various levels!
Posts: 1,580
Thanks for your inputs!
Nov 30, 2009, 8:05 pm
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa
Programs: AC SE*MM/S100K; HHonors Diamond; a bunch of others at various levels!
Posts: 1,580
I'd go for it.
When you book your holiday, do not try booking all four tickets at once. You may find that you can get one or two (or three) of the tickets without the 30% IKK premium. (If 3 seats are available at the regular price but the fourth requires IKK, you get dinged the IKK rate on all four seats).
Worst case scenario, pay for three seats and then either buy one J ticket or buy a Y ticket and use a cert to upgrade that person. If buying a ticket, you might want to buy YOW-NRT/PEK-YOW and then use a reward redemption for the NRT-PEK flight, which is usually quite epxensive.
Note: to access IKK for international flights, you either need to be one of the people redeeming J tickets or you need to buy a J ticket. You can not buy a Y ticket for yourself and get J IKK for the family.
When you book your holiday, do not try booking all four tickets at once. You may find that you can get one or two (or three) of the tickets without the 30% IKK premium. (If 3 seats are available at the regular price but the fourth requires IKK, you get dinged the IKK rate on all four seats).
Worst case scenario, pay for three seats and then either buy one J ticket or buy a Y ticket and use a cert to upgrade that person. If buying a ticket, you might want to buy YOW-NRT/PEK-YOW and then use a reward redemption for the NRT-PEK flight, which is usually quite epxensive.
Note: to access IKK for international flights, you either need to be one of the people redeeming J tickets or you need to buy a J ticket. You can not buy a Y ticket for yourself and get J IKK for the family.
What! I do not recall reading this before! Clearly I have missed an important point. That was exactly my plan! Could I fly on an Award J, buy a Tango plus for one of my family members, and use one of my SSWUs to upgrade them? Or does that violate the terms for the SSWU?This really changes my scenario! I'm glad you brought it to my attention.
GJS - yow
