Heads-up: New SA Immigration rules for kids
Jan 13, 2017, 1:24 pm
#286
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,410
"South Africa’s requirement for unabridged birth certificates has made family travel to the country “virtually impossible”, Daily Maverick reports Belgian newspaper De Standaard as saying"
Source
Johan
Source
Johan
In the case of Babette, her parents would have had to apply for an official, unabridged birth certificate in Brussels where she was born while the family currently lives in Ostend. The birth certificate would also have to be signed by the mayor of Brussels – a considerable schlep for most working people who are severely compromised by time constraints.
Jan 18, 2017, 12:35 pm
#287
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,077
Some statistics on refusals of entry for kids.
http://www.tourismupdate.co.za/artic...-Affairs-stats
http://www.tourismupdate.co.za/artic...-Affairs-stats
Jun 7, 2017, 7:02 pm
#288
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: UA 1k, HiltonGold, IHGGold, MarriottGold, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 9
My sister and I are taking her two kids to SA next month without the father. We have the unabridged BCs and the notorized parental consent form signed by the father. We just were told that we need a notorized or certified copy of the father's face page from his passport to attach to the consent form. US notaries will not notarize a copy - the best they will do is notarize a declaration from the father stating that the copy is a true and correct copy of his passport. Is this good enough? Or do we need to get the passport copy certified somewhere? I have called and emailed SA consulates and embassy in the US but the ones who have bothered to respond say they need a notarized copy even tho I keep telling them that we cant get that. Have not been able to reach the right people at the US State Dept. (Why dont people at the federal government return calls or emails?) Can anyone help with this? Thanks very much
Last edited by Nellietravels; Jun 7, 2017 at 11:42 pm
Jun 8, 2017, 11:39 am
#289
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,077
I'll attempt to do my level best to try and help (I'll state that I am NOT an official representative of any airline or the SA Government).
Lets go in reverse order.
This is an SA government rule enforced by SA Home affairs upon entry into and exit from SA. It is also enforced by airlines taking on passengers en route to SA. The airlines don't want to take you or the kids to SA only to have you rejected at the border (e.g. SA immigration at the airport) and have to fly you back.
The US government didn't pass or have anything to do with the rules. Though I'm sure the US government cares about international child trafficking and abductions, the US government at best would at a diplomatic level say to SA "Hey, this is causing trouble for our US citizens traveling to SA." If the US did that (and I've seen nothing that they have), given the stories you can read in this thread, the SA government's response would likely have been "pound sand." So, you're not going to get anything out the US governement. At best (and this is guess), if you got into SA with the documents you describe and SA refused to let you leave the country (e.g. return the USA) b/c the Home Affairs officer at your outbound-out-of-SA airport now rejected your documents and refused to let you take the kids home. Then, perhaps, the US consulate citizen services section in JNB or CPT would be able to help you. And, at the end of the day, this a global rule, citizens of every country (including SA, believe it or not) have to comply with this rule.
Not surprised at the less-than-clear response (or satisfactory) response from the SA Embassy and consular staff. But, they're right. Read on.
GOOD! You're almost there!
Unabridged birth certificates must show name or mother and father (and, of course, name of kid).
You DO have kids passports, right? And they don't expire for 6 months from the date of your arrival in SA, right? And, they have two blank pages in the passports for SA entry/exit stamps, right? And those two blank pages are not "add-in" or "extra" pages, right? The two pages are in the original part of the passport, right?
Notarized parental consent form. Make sure it is the ORIGINAL form signed by the father, not a copy of the form. Also make sure the original form bears the original notarization.
So. So far, so good, I hope.
I think the confusion is the on-the-fly info you're receiving about notaries and certification of documents. I used to be a notary but am not now. But, as a notary, I'd follow one of two methods for certifying documents
METHOD ONE
If I had the original actual document (e.g. the father's passport) in front of me, as well as the father (to attest that he's the one in the picture and that it's his true passport), I could make a copy of the original and then "Notarize" it on the same page as the copy with the following legend "Certified to be a true copy of the original" [Signed by me, the notary] [Stamped by me with my notary stamp]. That is what I would consider a "Certified Copy" or "Notarized Copy" of the father's passport. I'd try and "bleed" my signature and stamp over the edge of the passport image on the copy paper page to show that the copy of the passport was not added to a blank notarized piece of paper.
If someone walked in (other than the father) with an original document (the father's passport) and wanted a "Certified Copy" or "Notarized Copy," I'd say no, I need the person in that document present to swear or affirm that it's them in the document and their true and correct document. I can't take your word that the father "exists" and that it's his passport without him present.
METHOD TWO
Perhaps what they're saying is that, again, with the father physically present, with the original document, they will copy the passport, and get him to "swear" as described above. And then add the following legend "Certified [by the father] to be a true copy of the original" I wouldn't even put the [by the father] language in there. Just the same "Certified to be a true copy of the original" Then I'd have the father sign below that legend (e.g. the father is certif[ying] that the document is a real document and the copy is a true copy). Then, below the father's signature, I'd put a legend "Sworn and certified before me, this ____ day of _____ 2017" to show that the father signed and swore/affirmed. Then I'd add [Signed by me, the notary] [Stamped by me with my notary stamp]. Note how in that "Sworn and certified before me, this ____ day of _____ 2017" language there is at least the implied certification by the notary, that the copy is a "certified" copy. Don't tell the prickly notary their doing that. BUT, importantly, the father's "certif[ying] about the copy and the notary's second implicit certification from the notary is "enough" as far as I'm concerned for airlines and SA border officials.
Indeed, as a frequent traveler to SA, I and the mother of my children have faced and used BOTH methods - when the mother of my children has traveled w/o me, she had the two documents discussed above (unabridged and permission form) and the "Certified Copy" or "Notarized Copy" of my passport. No problem w/ the airlines and no problem entering or leaving SA. Vice versa for me traveling alone with the kids (I have the kids birth certs and passports and her certified docs).
The key here for the airlines and the SA border folks is to have the certified copy of the father's passport - nice and clear with no alterations - with the certified language. Frankly, I don't think they care about the precise language of the notarization. Just that it is a nice clear (color) copy, with a good clear notarization and clear stamps (if the notary has them I ask for them to use BOTH an ink-rubber stamp with all their notary license details and a raised seal stamp). The dual stamp is a nice belt and suspenders and looks "more official."
The key with the notaries is that they need to have the father (and his passport) in front of them. As described above, if you walk in with a copy of his passport (with or without the original passport) they will not take your word for it that the father's passport is real or that the father in the passport even exists, they need the father there. That may be the hangup. You've got to get the father and his passport in the same room as the notary. You don't need to be there. If the Dad is distant from you, he should be able to it on his own then FedEx/UPS/DHL/Express mail you the certified copy of his passport.
One last thing. Keep these documents a secure as your passports! Once you arrive in SA, you don't want to lose them. You will NOT need to travel with them day to day (even the kids passports should not travel w/ them day-to-day around SA). If these documents get lost, you're flipping eff'ed and you and the father will have to do this all over again, internationally, with hectic DHL fees to get you all these original documents again in order to leave SA. Trust me. Not. Fun.
Good luck. Safe travels.
Lets go in reverse order.
The US government didn't pass or have anything to do with the rules. Though I'm sure the US government cares about international child trafficking and abductions, the US government at best would at a diplomatic level say to SA "Hey, this is causing trouble for our US citizens traveling to SA." If the US did that (and I've seen nothing that they have), given the stories you can read in this thread, the SA government's response would likely have been "pound sand." So, you're not going to get anything out the US governement. At best (and this is guess), if you got into SA with the documents you describe and SA refused to let you leave the country (e.g. return the USA) b/c the Home Affairs officer at your outbound-out-of-SA airport now rejected your documents and refused to let you take the kids home. Then, perhaps, the US consulate citizen services section in JNB or CPT would be able to help you. And, at the end of the day, this a global rule, citizens of every country (including SA, believe it or not) have to comply with this rule.
Unabridged birth certificates must show name or mother and father (and, of course, name of kid).
You DO have kids passports, right? And they don't expire for 6 months from the date of your arrival in SA, right? And, they have two blank pages in the passports for SA entry/exit stamps, right? And those two blank pages are not "add-in" or "extra" pages, right? The two pages are in the original part of the passport, right?
Notarized parental consent form. Make sure it is the ORIGINAL form signed by the father, not a copy of the form. Also make sure the original form bears the original notarization.
So. So far, so good, I hope.
We just were told that we need a notorized or certified copy of the father's face page from his passport to attach to the consent form. US notaries will not notarize a copy - the best they will do is notarize a declaration from the father stating that the copy is a true and correct copy of his passport. Is this good enough? Or do we need to get the passport copy certified somewhere?
METHOD ONE
If I had the original actual document (e.g. the father's passport) in front of me, as well as the father (to attest that he's the one in the picture and that it's his true passport), I could make a copy of the original and then "Notarize" it on the same page as the copy with the following legend "Certified to be a true copy of the original" [Signed by me, the notary] [Stamped by me with my notary stamp]. That is what I would consider a "Certified Copy" or "Notarized Copy" of the father's passport. I'd try and "bleed" my signature and stamp over the edge of the passport image on the copy paper page to show that the copy of the passport was not added to a blank notarized piece of paper.
If someone walked in (other than the father) with an original document (the father's passport) and wanted a "Certified Copy" or "Notarized Copy," I'd say no, I need the person in that document present to swear or affirm that it's them in the document and their true and correct document. I can't take your word that the father "exists" and that it's his passport without him present.
METHOD TWO
Perhaps what they're saying is that, again, with the father physically present, with the original document, they will copy the passport, and get him to "swear" as described above. And then add the following legend "Certified [by the father] to be a true copy of the original" I wouldn't even put the [by the father] language in there. Just the same "Certified to be a true copy of the original" Then I'd have the father sign below that legend (e.g. the father is certif[ying] that the document is a real document and the copy is a true copy). Then, below the father's signature, I'd put a legend "Sworn and certified before me, this ____ day of _____ 2017" to show that the father signed and swore/affirmed. Then I'd add [Signed by me, the notary] [Stamped by me with my notary stamp]. Note how in that "Sworn and certified before me, this ____ day of _____ 2017" language there is at least the implied certification by the notary, that the copy is a "certified" copy. Don't tell the prickly notary their doing that. BUT, importantly, the father's "certif[ying] about the copy and the notary's second implicit certification from the notary is "enough" as far as I'm concerned for airlines and SA border officials.
Indeed, as a frequent traveler to SA, I and the mother of my children have faced and used BOTH methods - when the mother of my children has traveled w/o me, she had the two documents discussed above (unabridged and permission form) and the "Certified Copy" or "Notarized Copy" of my passport. No problem w/ the airlines and no problem entering or leaving SA. Vice versa for me traveling alone with the kids (I have the kids birth certs and passports and her certified docs).
The key here for the airlines and the SA border folks is to have the certified copy of the father's passport - nice and clear with no alterations - with the certified language. Frankly, I don't think they care about the precise language of the notarization. Just that it is a nice clear (color) copy, with a good clear notarization and clear stamps (if the notary has them I ask for them to use BOTH an ink-rubber stamp with all their notary license details and a raised seal stamp). The dual stamp is a nice belt and suspenders and looks "more official."
The key with the notaries is that they need to have the father (and his passport) in front of them. As described above, if you walk in with a copy of his passport (with or without the original passport) they will not take your word for it that the father's passport is real or that the father in the passport even exists, they need the father there. That may be the hangup. You've got to get the father and his passport in the same room as the notary. You don't need to be there. If the Dad is distant from you, he should be able to it on his own then FedEx/UPS/DHL/Express mail you the certified copy of his passport.
One last thing. Keep these documents a secure as your passports! Once you arrive in SA, you don't want to lose them. You will NOT need to travel with them day to day (even the kids passports should not travel w/ them day-to-day around SA). If these documents get lost, you're flipping eff'ed and you and the father will have to do this all over again, internationally, with hectic DHL fees to get you all these original documents again in order to leave SA. Trust me. Not. Fun.
Good luck. Safe travels.
Last edited by jsnydcsa; Jun 8, 2017 at 11:53 am
Jun 8, 2017, 6:04 pm
#290
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: UA 1k, HiltonGold, IHGGold, MarriottGold, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 9
I'll attempt to do my level best to try and help (I'll state that I am NOT an official representative of any airline or the SA Government).
Lets go in reverse order.
This is an SA government rule enforced by SA Home affairs upon entry into and exit from SA. It is also enforced by airlines taking on passengers en route to SA. The airlines don't want to take you or the kids to SA only to have you rejected at the border (e.g. SA immigration at the airport) and have to fly you back.
The US government didn't pass or have anything to do with the rules. Though I'm sure the US government cares about international child trafficking and abductions, the US government at best would at a diplomatic level say to SA "Hey, this is causing trouble for our US citizens traveling to SA." If the US did that (and I've seen nothing that they have), given the stories you can read in this thread, the SA government's response would likely have been "pound sand." So, you're not going to get anything out the US governement. At best (and this is guess), if you got into SA with the documents you describe and SA refused to let you leave the country (e.g. return the USA) b/c the Home Affairs officer at your outbound-out-of-SA airport now rejected your documents and refused to let you take the kids home. Then, perhaps, the US consulate citizen services section in JNB or CPT would be able to help you. And, at the end of the day, this a global rule, citizens of every country (including SA, believe it or not) have to comply with this rule.
Not surprised at the less-than-clear response (or satisfactory) response from the SA Embassy and consular staff. But, they're right. Read on.
GOOD! You're almost there!
Unabridged birth certificates must show name or mother and father (and, of course, name of kid).
You DO have kids passports, right? And they don't expire for 6 months from the date of your arrival in SA, right? And, they have two blank pages in the passports for SA entry/exit stamps, right? And those two blank pages are not "add-in" or "extra" pages, right? The two pages are in the original part of the passport, right?
Notarized parental consent form. Make sure it is the ORIGINAL form signed by the father, not a copy of the form. Also make sure the original form bears the original notarization.
So. So far, so good, I hope.
I think the confusion is the on-the-fly info you're receiving about notaries and certification of documents. I used to be a notary but am not now. But, as a notary, I'd follow one of two methods for certifying documents
METHOD ONE
If I had the original actual document (e.g. the father's passport) in front of me, as well as the father (to attest that he's the one in the picture and that it's his true passport), I could make a copy of the original and then "Notarize" it on the same page as the copy with the following legend "Certified to be a true copy of the original" [Signed by me, the notary] [Stamped by me with my notary stamp]. That is what I would consider a "Certified Copy" or "Notarized Copy" of the father's passport. I'd try and "bleed" my signature and stamp over the edge of the passport image on the copy paper page to show that the copy of the passport was not added to a blank notarized piece of paper.
If someone walked in (other than the father) with an original document (the father's passport) and wanted a "Certified Copy" or "Notarized Copy," I'd say no, I need the person in that document present to swear or affirm that it's them in the document and their true and correct document. I can't take your word that the father "exists" and that it's his passport without him present.
METHOD TWO
Perhaps what they're saying is that, again, with the father physically present, with the original document, they will copy the passport, and get him to "swear" as described above. And then add the following legend "Certified [by the father] to be a true copy of the original" I wouldn't even put the [by the father] language in there. Just the same "Certified to be a true copy of the original" Then I'd have the father sign below that legend (e.g. the father is certif[ying] that the document is a real document and the copy is a true copy). Then, below the father's signature, I'd put a legend "Sworn and certified before me, this ____ day of _____ 2017" to show that the father signed and swore/affirmed. Then I'd add [Signed by me, the notary] [Stamped by me with my notary stamp]. Note how in that "Sworn and certified before me, this ____ day of _____ 2017" language there is at least the implied certification by the notary, that the copy is a "certified" copy. Don't tell the prickly notary their doing that. BUT, importantly, the father's "certif[ying] about the copy and the notary's second implicit certification from the notary is "enough" as far as I'm concerned for airlines and SA border officials.
Indeed, as a frequent traveler to SA, I and the mother of my children have faced and used BOTH methods - when the mother of my children has traveled w/o me, she had the two documents discussed above (unabridged and permission form) and the "Certified Copy" or "Notarized Copy" of my passport. No problem w/ the airlines and no problem entering or leaving SA. Vice versa for me traveling alone with the kids (I have the kids birth certs and passports and her certified docs).
The key here for the airlines and the SA border folks is to have the certified copy of the father's passport - nice and clear with no alterations - with the certified language. Frankly, I don't think they care about the precise language of the notarization. Just that it is a nice clear (color) copy, with a good clear notarization and clear stamps (if the notary has them I ask for them to use BOTH an ink-rubber stamp with all their notary license details and a raised seal stamp). The dual stamp is a nice belt and suspenders and looks "more official."
The key with the notaries is that they need to have the father (and his passport) in front of them. As described above, if you walk in with a copy of his passport (with or without the original passport) they will not take your word for it that the father's passport is real or that the father in the passport even exists, they need the father there. That may be the hangup. You've got to get the father and his passport in the same room as the notary. You don't need to be there. If the Dad is distant from you, he should be able to it on his own then FedEx/UPS/DHL/Express mail you the certified copy of his passport.
One last thing. Keep these documents a secure as your passports! Once you arrive in SA, you don't want to lose them. You will NOT need to travel with them day to day (even the kids passports should not travel w/ them day-to-day around SA). If these documents get lost, you're flipping eff'ed and you and the father will have to do this all over again, internationally, with hectic DHL fees to get you all these original documents again in order to leave SA. Trust me. Not. Fun.
Good luck. Safe travels.
Lets go in reverse order.
This is an SA government rule enforced by SA Home affairs upon entry into and exit from SA. It is also enforced by airlines taking on passengers en route to SA. The airlines don't want to take you or the kids to SA only to have you rejected at the border (e.g. SA immigration at the airport) and have to fly you back.
The US government didn't pass or have anything to do with the rules. Though I'm sure the US government cares about international child trafficking and abductions, the US government at best would at a diplomatic level say to SA "Hey, this is causing trouble for our US citizens traveling to SA." If the US did that (and I've seen nothing that they have), given the stories you can read in this thread, the SA government's response would likely have been "pound sand." So, you're not going to get anything out the US governement. At best (and this is guess), if you got into SA with the documents you describe and SA refused to let you leave the country (e.g. return the USA) b/c the Home Affairs officer at your outbound-out-of-SA airport now rejected your documents and refused to let you take the kids home. Then, perhaps, the US consulate citizen services section in JNB or CPT would be able to help you. And, at the end of the day, this a global rule, citizens of every country (including SA, believe it or not) have to comply with this rule.
Not surprised at the less-than-clear response (or satisfactory) response from the SA Embassy and consular staff. But, they're right. Read on.
GOOD! You're almost there!
Unabridged birth certificates must show name or mother and father (and, of course, name of kid).
You DO have kids passports, right? And they don't expire for 6 months from the date of your arrival in SA, right? And, they have two blank pages in the passports for SA entry/exit stamps, right? And those two blank pages are not "add-in" or "extra" pages, right? The two pages are in the original part of the passport, right?
Notarized parental consent form. Make sure it is the ORIGINAL form signed by the father, not a copy of the form. Also make sure the original form bears the original notarization.
So. So far, so good, I hope.
I think the confusion is the on-the-fly info you're receiving about notaries and certification of documents. I used to be a notary but am not now. But, as a notary, I'd follow one of two methods for certifying documents
METHOD ONE
If I had the original actual document (e.g. the father's passport) in front of me, as well as the father (to attest that he's the one in the picture and that it's his true passport), I could make a copy of the original and then "Notarize" it on the same page as the copy with the following legend "Certified to be a true copy of the original" [Signed by me, the notary] [Stamped by me with my notary stamp]. That is what I would consider a "Certified Copy" or "Notarized Copy" of the father's passport. I'd try and "bleed" my signature and stamp over the edge of the passport image on the copy paper page to show that the copy of the passport was not added to a blank notarized piece of paper.
If someone walked in (other than the father) with an original document (the father's passport) and wanted a "Certified Copy" or "Notarized Copy," I'd say no, I need the person in that document present to swear or affirm that it's them in the document and their true and correct document. I can't take your word that the father "exists" and that it's his passport without him present.
METHOD TWO
Perhaps what they're saying is that, again, with the father physically present, with the original document, they will copy the passport, and get him to "swear" as described above. And then add the following legend "Certified [by the father] to be a true copy of the original" I wouldn't even put the [by the father] language in there. Just the same "Certified to be a true copy of the original" Then I'd have the father sign below that legend (e.g. the father is certif[ying] that the document is a real document and the copy is a true copy). Then, below the father's signature, I'd put a legend "Sworn and certified before me, this ____ day of _____ 2017" to show that the father signed and swore/affirmed. Then I'd add [Signed by me, the notary] [Stamped by me with my notary stamp]. Note how in that "Sworn and certified before me, this ____ day of _____ 2017" language there is at least the implied certification by the notary, that the copy is a "certified" copy. Don't tell the prickly notary their doing that. BUT, importantly, the father's "certif[ying] about the copy and the notary's second implicit certification from the notary is "enough" as far as I'm concerned for airlines and SA border officials.
Indeed, as a frequent traveler to SA, I and the mother of my children have faced and used BOTH methods - when the mother of my children has traveled w/o me, she had the two documents discussed above (unabridged and permission form) and the "Certified Copy" or "Notarized Copy" of my passport. No problem w/ the airlines and no problem entering or leaving SA. Vice versa for me traveling alone with the kids (I have the kids birth certs and passports and her certified docs).
The key here for the airlines and the SA border folks is to have the certified copy of the father's passport - nice and clear with no alterations - with the certified language. Frankly, I don't think they care about the precise language of the notarization. Just that it is a nice clear (color) copy, with a good clear notarization and clear stamps (if the notary has them I ask for them to use BOTH an ink-rubber stamp with all their notary license details and a raised seal stamp). The dual stamp is a nice belt and suspenders and looks "more official."
The key with the notaries is that they need to have the father (and his passport) in front of them. As described above, if you walk in with a copy of his passport (with or without the original passport) they will not take your word for it that the father's passport is real or that the father in the passport even exists, they need the father there. That may be the hangup. You've got to get the father and his passport in the same room as the notary. You don't need to be there. If the Dad is distant from you, he should be able to it on his own then FedEx/UPS/DHL/Express mail you the certified copy of his passport.
One last thing. Keep these documents a secure as your passports! Once you arrive in SA, you don't want to lose them. You will NOT need to travel with them day to day (even the kids passports should not travel w/ them day-to-day around SA). If these documents get lost, you're flipping eff'ed and you and the father will have to do this all over again, internationally, with hectic DHL fees to get you all these original documents again in order to leave SA. Trust me. Not. Fun.
Good luck. Safe travels.
Thank you so much for spending the time on your response. I greatly appreciate it.
So my update - my sister went to the SA Consulate this morning to try and get some answers as she is fortunate to live in LA. They told her that the parental consent form that we had been sent by our South African TA to fill out and get notarized was all wrong and that we couldn't have gotten into the country with it. Once my sister recovered, they gave her the form that they said had to be filled out and nothing else would do. They also said that a form had to be filled out for each of the children which she had not done - she had only done one form for both kids because the form had entries for multiple children. They said that her ex husband had to visit the consulate in person and that they would certify all of the documents including his passport copy at one time and then we were done.
I have an excellent TA in South Africa and have used her multiple times without a hitch and I am at a loss to understand this. I also found other forms on the internet offered by other TAs etc and they didn't match what SA is telling us we need to have. I will take SA Consulate at its word but this is a crazy process and creates a lot of stress. I understand the purpose of the regulations but this has to be better streamlined. Thanks again for your help, most appreciated.
Jun 9, 2017, 12:49 am
#291
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 2,422
I have an excellent TA in South Africa and have used her multiple times without a hitch and I am at a loss to understand this. I also found other forms on the internet offered by other TAs etc and they didn't match what SA is telling us we need to have. I will take SA Consulate at its word but this is a crazy process and creates a lot of stress. I understand the purpose of the regulations but this has to be better streamlined. Thanks again for your help, most appreciated.
Jun 9, 2017, 3:26 pm
#292
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: UA 1k, HiltonGold, IHGGold, MarriottGold, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 9
This is the form from the DHA website: http://www.dha.gov.za/files/Parental...tAffidavit.pdf ... is that the one they gave you to fill out or was it a different one?
The ex husband is getting certified at the consulate now so cant tell but this is very different from the form that my TA sent. She says that her clients have been successfully using her form since the regulations went into place and have had no problems.
Last question - If the SA Consulate has formally certified the parental consent form and ex husband's passport copy, and we have the correct BCs, passports etc, is there any possibility that we might have any problems? I assume not as the Consulate is a representative of the SA Government but somewhat paranoid at the moment. Thank you very mcuh
Jun 12, 2017, 10:45 am
#293
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,077
I have an excellent TA in South Africa and have used her multiple times without a hitch and I am at a loss to understand this. I also found other forms on the internet offered by other TAs etc and they didn't match what SA is telling us we need to have. I will take SA Consulate at its word but this is a crazy process and creates a lot of stress.
You are 100% correct.
Last question - If the SA Consulate has formally certified the parental consent form and ex husband's passport copy, and we have the correct BCs, passports etc, is there any possibility that we might have any problems? I assume not as the Consulate is a representative of the SA Government but somewhat paranoid at the moment.
All this said, I can tell you that thousands of parents traveling alone with kids cross the border every day. Some are rejected, yes. However, based on my perusing of the popular press articles about people getting turned away (to restate I have NO inside knowledge on this), it appears (to me at least) that there is something often glaringly wrong with the situation that resulted in a problem. E.g. An expired passport, a completely missing form or a certification written in crayon (OK, the last one is made up) that throws a spanner in the works. Remember, at the end of the day, just like crossing the US border (or checking-in for a flight bound for the USA), you have to present yourself for entry and for-lack-of-a-better-description "prove" you're eligible for entry to a staffperson for the airline or a border officer. Even if you have every i dotted, t crossed and lowercase j dotted as well by the Embassy, Immigration Authorities, etc. and you are 101% eligible to enter, it is still up to them. Be prepared, be professional, be polite, be ready and it'll go smoothly. It may be nerve-wracking, but it'll happen.
Again, good luck
Jun 12, 2017, 10:59 am
#294
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: UA 1k, HiltonGold, IHGGold, MarriottGold, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 9
You’re welcome.
Sorry, I considered that a given. One form per kid. My bad. Should have thought to mention that.
“had” - that’s flat out wrong. But, reading on, I see he’s done it. So, whatever. TI[S]A{Consulate]
While travel agents (in SA and the USA) “know” about regulations, etc. They are not the final source. I cannot tell you how many foreign-based travel agents claim they know some aspect of US immigration, visa, etc. rules for tourists and are actually giving opposite wrong advice. If you need help with travel - hire a travel agent (or come to FlyerTalk, half-kidding). If you need help with a visa, immigration, etc - hire an visa expeditor or immigration advisor. Or, as done above, simply visit the relevant web sites (Home Affairs, in this case) and get the proper forms.
You are 100% correct.
Yeah, um, no. Not streamlined. Not better streamlined.
I don’t doubt for a minute that your TA is telling you that. I also don’t doubt for a minute that she’s accurate. But, it is the exception that proves the rule. And, given all the people that review this paperwork at check-in, at the border, leaving SA, etc., there are MANY chances for exceptions.
You assume too much. Never assume anything about the Government of SA. How “clear” are the stamps, seals, text, signatures, etc. etc. etc. on the paperwork that its coming from the Consulate LA? Remember, the more “official,” and “officious” it looks, the better. I can guarantee you 100% that telling the check in agent or border officer that Consulate LA “told” you / "gave you their word" that this would be OK means absolutely nothing to said check in agent or border officer.
All this said, I can tell you that thousands of parents traveling alone with kids cross the border every day. Some are rejected, yes. However, based on my perusing of the popular press articles about people getting turned away (to restate I have NO inside knowledge on this), it appears (to me at least) that there is something often glaringly wrong with the situation that resulted in a problem. E.g. An expired passport, a completely missing form or a certification written in crayon (OK, the last one is made up) that throws a spanner in the works. Remember, at the end of the day, just like crossing the US border (or checking-in for a flight bound for the USA), you have to present yourself for entry and for-lack-of-a-better-description "prove" you're eligible for entry to a staffperson for the airline or a border officer. Even if you have every i dotted, t crossed and lowercase j dotted as well by the Embassy, Immigration Authorities, etc. and you are 101% eligible to enter, it is still up to them. Be prepared, be professional, be polite, be ready and it'll go smoothly. It may be nerve-wracking, but it'll happen.
Again, good luck
Sorry, I considered that a given. One form per kid. My bad. Should have thought to mention that.
“had” - that’s flat out wrong. But, reading on, I see he’s done it. So, whatever. TI[S]A{Consulate]
While travel agents (in SA and the USA) “know” about regulations, etc. They are not the final source. I cannot tell you how many foreign-based travel agents claim they know some aspect of US immigration, visa, etc. rules for tourists and are actually giving opposite wrong advice. If you need help with travel - hire a travel agent (or come to FlyerTalk, half-kidding). If you need help with a visa, immigration, etc - hire an visa expeditor or immigration advisor. Or, as done above, simply visit the relevant web sites (Home Affairs, in this case) and get the proper forms.
You are 100% correct.
Yeah, um, no. Not streamlined. Not better streamlined.
I don’t doubt for a minute that your TA is telling you that. I also don’t doubt for a minute that she’s accurate. But, it is the exception that proves the rule. And, given all the people that review this paperwork at check-in, at the border, leaving SA, etc., there are MANY chances for exceptions.
You assume too much. Never assume anything about the Government of SA. How “clear” are the stamps, seals, text, signatures, etc. etc. etc. on the paperwork that its coming from the Consulate LA? Remember, the more “official,” and “officious” it looks, the better. I can guarantee you 100% that telling the check in agent or border officer that Consulate LA “told” you / "gave you their word" that this would be OK means absolutely nothing to said check in agent or border officer.
All this said, I can tell you that thousands of parents traveling alone with kids cross the border every day. Some are rejected, yes. However, based on my perusing of the popular press articles about people getting turned away (to restate I have NO inside knowledge on this), it appears (to me at least) that there is something often glaringly wrong with the situation that resulted in a problem. E.g. An expired passport, a completely missing form or a certification written in crayon (OK, the last one is made up) that throws a spanner in the works. Remember, at the end of the day, just like crossing the US border (or checking-in for a flight bound for the USA), you have to present yourself for entry and for-lack-of-a-better-description "prove" you're eligible for entry to a staffperson for the airline or a border officer. Even if you have every i dotted, t crossed and lowercase j dotted as well by the Embassy, Immigration Authorities, etc. and you are 101% eligible to enter, it is still up to them. Be prepared, be professional, be polite, be ready and it'll go smoothly. It may be nerve-wracking, but it'll happen.
Again, good luck
Thanks JSNYDCSA for all the help and all of your time and patience. I think we are as prepared as we can be. I will report back early July and let you know how it goes!
Jun 12, 2017, 3:10 pm
#295
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,077
You are! Safe travels! Your sister and neices/nephews will have a nice trip. LAX (I'm presuming based on the location of the consular visit) to SA with kids. Medal round.
Aug 8, 2017, 4:44 pm
#296
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: UA 1k, HiltonGold, IHGGold, MarriottGold, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 9
So actually getting into and out of SA was the easy part - it was flying to JNB that was tougher. Thanks again for all the help, it was invaluable.
Aug 15, 2017, 1:17 pm
#297
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,077
I wanted to report back on our experiences. My sister/kids flew Virgin, whose staff underwent a very detailed review of her paperwork at both LAX and LHR. But she passed the test! No issues at all. On arrival in JNB, the customs official took a quick glance at the paperwork and that was it. She was not particularly interested. Leaving S. Africa the customs official asked if she had the paperwork but didnt ask to see it.
So actually getting into and out of SA was the easy part - it was flying to JNB that was tougher. Thanks again for all the help, it was invaluable.
So actually getting into and out of SA was the easy part - it was flying to JNB that was tougher. Thanks again for all the help, it was invaluable.
Mar 20, 2018, 12:05 pm
#298
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Tourism Minister puts visas back on the agenda
"Tourism Minister Derek Hanekom ... said dealing with the visa issues would be top priority in coming months. He already had a date for “a robust engagement” with Home Affairs and he was “quite hopeful that we will be able to address some of the visa issues”. “We think the situation has changed, because we have a President who really sees the importance of tourism and who is going to be supportive.” He also suggested that Minister Gigaba might have gained a different perspective during his tenure as Finance Minister.
Minister Hanekom said he would also again table South Africa’s requirement for unabridged birth certificates, which he said, was “costing South Africa heavily”. "
Source
No matter what post he has held, Gigaba's perspective has always been that of a Gupta stooge. Presumably Ramaphosa is just waiting for an opportune moment to deal with him.
Johan
Minister Hanekom said he would also again table South Africa’s requirement for unabridged birth certificates, which he said, was “costing South Africa heavily”. "
Source
No matter what post he has held, Gigaba's perspective has always been that of a Gupta stooge. Presumably Ramaphosa is just waiting for an opportune moment to deal with him.
Johan
Apr 7, 2018, 3:54 pm
#299
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
"The trials and tribulations of the unabridged birth certificate regulation in South Africa continue to dog the tourism industry, with service providers, stakeholders – and with greater force, tourists themselves – becoming more aggressively vocal about its negative impact on the inbound tourism industry."
Source
Johan
Source
Johan
May 3, 2018, 3:25 pm
#300
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
"The Departments of Tourism and Home Affairs are setting up a dedicated team of officials to fast-track progress of the easing of visa requirements for visitors, in a bid to increase tourist arrivals to South Africa."
Source
Johan
Source
Johan
