Dieuwer

AT?

stimpy

AT = Royal Air Maroc like DL = Delta or AF = Air France.

BuildingMyBento

Hmm, although it was a few years ago, I was followed in and out of hotels/shops for an hour trying to rid myself of a tout. I'd rather deal with the fluff in Marrakech than Tangier again any day, but would only return to the latter if there are completely different foods to try there than in the rest of the country. Oh wait, I'd have to pay my respects to something Ibn Batouta-related as well...

chgoeditor

Tangier has passed laws in recent years that really crack down on the touts. When I was there for 5 days in the spring of 2011 my mother & I walked all over the place & were never approached/received unwelcome attention from touts. I think it's gone a long way in fixing the negative impression that many visitors used to have.

BuildingMyBento

Besides those that want to say they've been to Africa by taking a short boat trip, I don't see the point in going to Tangier for a suq or other specifically Moroccan sights. Why not just go to another city (ie, Marrakech) where you're more likely to get bothered by another tourist than a tout? Also, if the Mediterranean is Tangier's selling point, that doesn't make it something "Moroccan." Now, if you said Tangier has a vastly different cuisine and a unique attraction, then I might be down...what did you enjoy about it, chgoeditor?

chgoeditor

My Mom grew up in Morocco, so it's difficult for me to view Tangier strictly through the lens of a tourist. I've been twice now with my Mom, so I've had the chance to see the stories of her childhood come to life. We've visited the houses she called home, the school my grandfather helped found, the beaches where they spent the weekend, the site where my grandfather worked, even the grocery store and patisseries her family frequented as a child. On our last trip, we spent hours pouring through newspaper archives from the 1940s and 50s.

Now, what makes Tangier unique? Are you aware of Tangier's historic & cultural relationship with the US?

The American Legation (now the Tangier American Legation Institute for American Studies) was the first piece of property the US government owned outside of our own borders. (It's still a State Department-owned property and the first property (and only, I think) outside of the US that's on the US National Register of Historic Places as well as a National Historic Landmark. If you take time to tour the Legation, you'd see letters & other artifacts that date back to the founding of our country, as well as some beautiful artifacts. I don't know about you, but in my history classes growing up (in the US, as well as American schools in Saudi Arabia and England), I never learned about the US's relationship with Morocco. I learned something about it at the Legation.

Tangier has always been a city that, in a sense, attracts outcasts & people who are looking to escape. As a result, it's as a notable role in the biographies of many artists and other people of note. Paul Bowles, Jane Bowles, Malcolm Forbes, Tennessee Williams, William S. Boroughs, Jack Kerouac, Eugene Delacroix, Henri Matisse, The Rollings Stones, Barbara Hutton and more. I think some of its charm is getting off of the beaten path, sitting at a cafe & chatting with locals.

I am not a student of military history, but I do know enough to know that by virtue of its location, Tangier played a pivotal role in world events, including World War II and the Cold War. (Both the OSS and CIA have had a presence there.)

One thing to make sure you understand: You mention the idea of something or some place being "Moroccan." One of the things I find so fascinating about Morocco is the conflux of cultures--African, European, Arab. Tangier is different from Marrakech precisely because of its location. Over the centuries, it's been under Roman rule, Arab rule, Portuguese, British, Spanish... Heck, even in the last century it's been under British, French & Spanish rule. Maybe I'm reading too much into your comment, but you seem to imply that because the Mediterranean influence that makes it un-Moroccan. But I'd argue that it is a uniquely Moroccan city precisely because of the many influences.

So what are some of the sights you should see? I'd include the Legation, the medina, St. Andrews Church, the Grand Socco and the Grotto of Hercules, among other things. The corniche comes alive at night--particularly during warm weather--with families out for a stroll. Drive out to one of the cafes at Cap Spartel. Sit on one of the many restaurant terraces and watch the ship traffic--on a clear day you can see Spain and Gibraltar. (How many spots in the world have you visited where you can see other countries and another continent?) I haven't been to the Sultan's Palace (now a museum) or Mendoub Palace (Forbes' home, also a museum), but I've heard good things about both.

BuildingMyBento

I did know that Morocco is the first country to have diplomatic relations with the US, but when would that ever be a reason for me to visit anywhere? You commented a lot about the ties between Morocco and the US (the latter of which where we are both from) but what you specifically wrote has zero weight in my book. Which is to say, plenty of FTers might want to/or already know about the background, so it can benefit those members. But how would seeing where Tennessee Williams took a few naps make me interested in visiting Morocco/Tangiers? Of course, that's not how you were writing about it, but it's regardless, it's not a selling point.

Also, I was aware of the numerous influences, but there are plenty of other sites dotting the Mediterranean not also filled with touts that also were ruled by various civilizations through time. I never wanted to imply that it was un-Moroccan, rather because of the factors you listed I'd rather see more of an inland city, as opposed to French or British-designed buildings that also appear in Tianjin, Shanghai or well, Europe. Nothing against what you were discussing, just bad memories of Tangiers and a seamless time in Marrakech/Casablanca (the latter of which was devoid of anything interesting beyond the attractive masjid on the Atlantic, IMO) make me wonder why going to see just another suq or cathedral should make Tangiers the place to do it. But, if there is a growing amount of Ibn Batouta-related attractions...

GoGreen

If you're still looking .... I (with the help of Scott at Mile Value Award Booking Service) just booked award flights from Boston to Marrakech via Munich and Lisbon. 3 flights, leave Boston 8:25 PM, arrive Marrakech 3:15 PM the next day. Used United Miles; flights are on Lufthansa and TAP. I'm happy! It was so painful and unproductive to try finding anything by myself.

Dieuwer

Another option would be BOS-ZRH-RAK.

Suzzin

RustyC

I'm not much help on particulars (having not been yet) but can recommend the book "The Dream at the End of the World" by Michelle Green as a kind of inspiration for Tangier. Sounds like it used to be quite a party place, though maybe William S. Burroughs wasn't in it for the same reasons you'd be. Anthony Bourdain liked the food.

stimpy

They are two rather different towns. You coud flip a coin and choose one or the other.

Palal

or neither. Morocco has many nice places, RAK and TNG are not them.

chgoeditor

Recognize that Tangier and Marrakech have been influenced by very different cultures, and are, as a result, very different cities. Tangier is a coastal city that was shaped, in my ways, by its proximity to Spain and by virtue of the fact it was previously an international zone occupied by the French, Spanish, Italians and British. Marrakech, on the other hand, feels much more Arab and African. Tangier is a port city, Marrakech, while flat, is defined in part by its proximity to the mountains.

What are you expecting from Morocco, and what kinds of activities do you enjoy?

And yes, if it's your first trip to Tangier, I'd argue the Hilton is too far out of town.

If you're going to throw out a comment like that, it would be helpful to explain why you think so, and what places you would recommend and why.

Suzzin

Thank you! It sounds like Marrakech would be better, we'd like to get more of a sense of the country and not just the transience of a port. We've never managed a sit-by-the-beach vacation, I keep thinking we'll do one of those but then when it comes time to plan there's just too much to see and not enough time to see it. When we travel we are tourists (but the good kind, I hope). I say we like to see the thing, eat the thing, and buy the thing---every country/city has a thing that they are proud of, and we try to experience that. Great Wall, glaciers, German castles, local food, and a tshirt or Christmas ornament if we find one we like. I don't really know enough about Morocco to say exactly what we'd want to do there, we just like to spend a few days and wander around, usually on foot. I'm absolutely open to any suggestions!