JBA & FFP participation
Aug 24, 23, 9:26 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Programs: ConciergeKey 4MM, Bonvoy Titanium, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 439
JBA & FFP participation
Okay, I recognize I may be in a minority here, but the continued lack of participation by EI in the AA frequent flier program (FFP) is starting to get on my nerves. I’ve reviewed their US DOT petition arguing that ATI should be granted (it was, obviously) and there’s mention in there of the benefits that accrue from mutual FFP participation. Where is that mutual participation??
The current situation, where EI gets to reap the benefits of participation in the JBA without having to extend any benefits to the flying public seems like a real bait-and-switch to me. Unless I’m wrong, and they’re not currently revenue pooling on their transatlantic routes, EI is taking the benefits of the JBA and offering few - or none - of the consumer benefits that were promised. Even the codesharing that was envisioned in the ATI application haven’t come to pass.
Perhaps I’m just cranky, but I feel a DOT complaint brewing in my brain.
The current situation, where EI gets to reap the benefits of participation in the JBA without having to extend any benefits to the flying public seems like a real bait-and-switch to me. Unless I’m wrong, and they’re not currently revenue pooling on their transatlantic routes, EI is taking the benefits of the JBA and offering few - or none - of the consumer benefits that were promised. Even the codesharing that was envisioned in the ATI application haven’t come to pass.
Perhaps I’m just cranky, but I feel a DOT complaint brewing in my brain.
Aug 25, 23, 3:43 am
#2
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: EIDW
Programs: Aer Lingus Concierge, Radisson Rewards Platinum, BW Diamond, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,817
At this point it is my understanding the EI is NOT in the JV at this time and until they issue a press release to say its live it isn't
There are some ticketing changes in October to align EI with the JV
There are some ticketing changes in October to align EI with the JV
Aug 25, 23, 6:08 am
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,155
Okay, I recognize I may be in a minority here, but the continued lack of participation by EI in the AA frequent flier program (FFP) is starting to get on my nerves. I’ve reviewed their US DOT petition arguing that ATI should be granted (it was, obviously) and there’s mention in there of the benefits that accrue from mutual FFP participation. Where is that mutual participation??
This month it has been exactly 8 years since IAG bought Aer Lingus. And even though they forced Aer Lingus to adopt Avios as their frequent-flyer-currency, and a creaking new frequent-flyer programme administered by AGL to replace their (much-missed) old one run by EI themselves, there have been no changes whatsoever as regards mututal FFP participation since the IAG purchase. EI passengers earn on BA flights in the same way that they did prior to the purchase; BA passengers earn on EI flights in the same way that they did prior to the purchase - save for the fact that there are additional codeshares now, meaning that if you book a codeshare (where available, and usually at a price premium) you can now earn Tier Credits/Tier Points where previously this was not possible under any scenario.
Neither EI nor BA passengers earn Tier Credits/Tier Points while travelling on the flights of the other booked under that other airline's flightcode, despite being part of the same airline group for 8 full years.
Additionally, EI passengers still cannot even earn miles on any of the other IAG airlines, and vice-versa, despite being part of the same airline group for 8 full years.
IAG's rationale for buying EI included the "joining Avios", "benefits of joining a leading reward programme" and "Increased value of reward programme". Now, Aer Lingus did "join Avios", so they can probably say they met their commitments on that score - but not in any meaningful way.
There was noise in that rationale document too about having EI join oneworld. But, it seems that EI really does not want to join oneworld. (I'm fully in agreement with you, for my own personal and selfish reasons, it would be a Godsend. But Aer Lingus have looked at the costs and opportunities, and clearly decided that it is not in their interest)
So, if you're expecting a switch-on of complete mutual recognition on all AA and/or EI flights, and full earn/burn potential in both programmes for all AA/EI flights - I would say, tone down your expectations. A more reasonable expectation from this JV is that "mutual FFP participaton" means only that FFP recognition/earning will be given only when you're travelling on a codeshare that previously wasn't on offer between AA and EI - so long as you book the flight under its AA codeshare!!!
Last edited by irishguy28; Aug 25, 23 at 6:15 am
Aug 25, 23, 8:33 am
#4
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 20
https://mediacentre.aerlingus.com/pr...ails/108/13607
One of my biggest bugbears is that I can't use my AA miles to redeem any itinerary that involves EI metal. I live in Jamaica and the best route back to Ireland is via LGW but there are no BA LGW-DUB flights so miles can't be used for KIN-LGW-DUB unless I change airport in London to LCY or LHR.
The other irritant (but it does seem to be at least partially resolved for the Winter 2023 schedule) is that KIN-MIA-DUB (AA/EI) always priced out using ridiculous fully flex fare buckets only and never seemed to give any affordable options. Presumably that's something to do with AA and EI still treating each other like normal competitor interline partners rather than JV partners.
Aug 25, 23, 6:21 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Programs: ConciergeKey 4MM, Bonvoy Titanium, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 439
Hello, Johnny-come-lately!
This month it has been exactly 8 years since IAG bought Aer Lingus. And even though they forced Aer Lingus to adopt Avios as their frequent-flyer-currency, and a creaking new frequent-flyer programme administered by AGL to replace their (much-missed) old one run by EI themselves, there have been no changes whatsoever as regards mututal FFP participation since the IAG purchase. EI passengers earn on BA flights in the same way that they did prior to the purchase; BA passengers earn on EI flights in the same way that they did prior to the purchase - save for the fact that there are additional codeshares now, meaning that if you book a codeshare (where available, and usually at a price premium) you can now earn Tier Credits/Tier Points where previously this was not possible under any scenario.
Neither EI nor BA passengers earn Tier Credits/Tier Points while travelling on the flights of the other booked under that other airline's flightcode, despite being part of the same airline group for 8 full years.
Additionally, EI passengers still cannot even earn miles on any of the other IAG airlines, and vice-versa, despite being part of the same airline group for 8 full years.
IAG's rationale for buying EI included the "joining Avios", "benefits of joining a leading reward programme" and "Increased value of reward programme". Now, Aer Lingus did "join Avios", so they can probably say they met their commitments on that score - but not in any meaningful way.
There was noise in that rationale document too about having EI join oneworld. But, it seems that EI really does not want to join oneworld. (I'm fully in agreement with you, for my own personal and selfish reasons, it would be a Godsend. But Aer Lingus have looked at the costs and opportunities, and clearly decided that it is not in their interest)
So, if you're expecting a switch-on of complete mutual recognition on all AA and/or EI flights, and full earn/burn potential in both programmes for all AA/EI flights - I would say, tone down your expectations. A more reasonable expectation from this JV is that "mutual FFP participaton" means only that FFP recognition/earning will be given only when you're travelling on a codeshare that previously wasn't on offer between AA and EI - so long as you book the flight under its AA codeshare!!!
This month it has been exactly 8 years since IAG bought Aer Lingus. And even though they forced Aer Lingus to adopt Avios as their frequent-flyer-currency, and a creaking new frequent-flyer programme administered by AGL to replace their (much-missed) old one run by EI themselves, there have been no changes whatsoever as regards mututal FFP participation since the IAG purchase. EI passengers earn on BA flights in the same way that they did prior to the purchase; BA passengers earn on EI flights in the same way that they did prior to the purchase - save for the fact that there are additional codeshares now, meaning that if you book a codeshare (where available, and usually at a price premium) you can now earn Tier Credits/Tier Points where previously this was not possible under any scenario.
Neither EI nor BA passengers earn Tier Credits/Tier Points while travelling on the flights of the other booked under that other airline's flightcode, despite being part of the same airline group for 8 full years.
Additionally, EI passengers still cannot even earn miles on any of the other IAG airlines, and vice-versa, despite being part of the same airline group for 8 full years.
IAG's rationale for buying EI included the "joining Avios", "benefits of joining a leading reward programme" and "Increased value of reward programme". Now, Aer Lingus did "join Avios", so they can probably say they met their commitments on that score - but not in any meaningful way.
There was noise in that rationale document too about having EI join oneworld. But, it seems that EI really does not want to join oneworld. (I'm fully in agreement with you, for my own personal and selfish reasons, it would be a Godsend. But Aer Lingus have looked at the costs and opportunities, and clearly decided that it is not in their interest)
So, if you're expecting a switch-on of complete mutual recognition on all AA and/or EI flights, and full earn/burn potential in both programmes for all AA/EI flights - I would say, tone down your expectations. A more reasonable expectation from this JV is that "mutual FFP participaton" means only that FFP recognition/earning will be given only when you're travelling on a codeshare that previously wasn't on offer between AA and EI - so long as you book the flight under its AA codeshare!!!
Aug 26, 23, 2:02 am
#6
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Programs: BA Gold, Mucci
Posts: 1,976
So, if you're expecting a switch-on of complete mutual recognition on all AA and/or EI flights, and full earn/burn potential in both programmes for all AA/EI flights - I would say, tone down your expectations. A more reasonable expectation from this JV is that "mutual FFP participaton" means only that FFP recognition/earning will be given only when you're travelling on a codeshare that previously wasn't on offer between AA and EI - so long as you book the flight under its AA codeshare!!!
Fingers crossed!
