Aer Lingus may move transatlantic services from Shannon to the UK
Aug 31, 2020, 2:24 am
#1
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Aer Lingus may move transatlantic services from Shannon to the UK
Edinburgh and Manchester are 2 of 6 UK airports bidding for Aer Lingus transatlantic services, commencing in 2021 and lasting for at least an initial 3 years.
Aer Lingus may shift transatlantic services from Shannon to the UK as it continues to grapple with Government Covid-19 travel restrictions.
The Irish airline has two Airbus A321 long-range craft based at Shannon, normally used to fly from there to Boston, New York and London Heathrow, but which have been grounded since March.
It emerged at the weekend that Edinburgh and Manchester are among six UK regional airports now bidding have to these craft based with them to provide flights to the US.
Both are understood to have expressed interest a deal to take the craft some weeks ago, although neither yet has an agreement with the Irish carrier.
Four other UK airports are in the running. While local sources have not named them, they are all said to be regional gateways.
Originally Posted by The Irish Times
Aer Lingus may shift transatlantic services from Shannon to the UK as it continues to grapple with Government Covid-19 travel restrictions.
The Irish airline has two Airbus A321 long-range craft based at Shannon, normally used to fly from there to Boston, New York and London Heathrow, but which have been grounded since March.
It emerged at the weekend that Edinburgh and Manchester are among six UK regional airports now bidding have to these craft based with them to provide flights to the US.
Both are understood to have expressed interest a deal to take the craft some weeks ago, although neither yet has an agreement with the Irish carrier.
Four other UK airports are in the running. While local sources have not named them, they are all said to be regional gateways.
Sep 1, 2020, 12:48 am
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I think with things like Global entry reduce the need for pre clearance. Being Manchester based i'd certainly consider this over the usual slog on BA via LHR, though of course American do Philly as well in the One World group. A lot would depend on where they fly to and schedules, I can't say the idea of long haul on a 321 NEO excites me much though.
Sep 1, 2020, 1:59 am
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I don't believe that is the idea at all. The idea is a direct, non-stop service from these UK airports direct to a US airport, and that the aircraft would be based in the UK.
Of course, perhaps from time to time they will end up doing runs to/from DUB (or ORK, SNN), but I certainly don't see Aer Lingus selling a DUB-MAN-JFK ticket if that was the implication! Why would you book such a route from DUB when you can fly direct, and benefit from pre-clearance?
Of course, perhaps from time to time they will end up doing runs to/from DUB (or ORK, SNN), but I certainly don't see Aer Lingus selling a DUB-MAN-JFK ticket if that was the implication! Why would you book such a route from DUB when you can fly direct, and benefit from pre-clearance?
Sep 1, 2020, 5:34 am
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If you do base at MAN or EDI you need asset usage so you will have to bolt some IE-UK flights into the mix to keep the A321 flying.
No one would do DUB-MAN-JFK but you need to get more sectors out of a single aircraft/day to make money and avoid positioning.
You probably would end up with MAN-DUB-MAN-JFK-MAN with an option to swap at DUB but its all semantics really as the aircraft theoretically has no base as its always in the air.
No one would do DUB-MAN-JFK but you need to get more sectors out of a single aircraft/day to make money and avoid positioning.
You probably would end up with MAN-DUB-MAN-JFK-MAN with an option to swap at DUB but its all semantics really as the aircraft theoretically has no base as its always in the air.
Sep 1, 2020, 6:57 am
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However, EI is assessing whether to pull out of SNN and ORK entirely!
Aer Lingus reviewing Cork and Shannon operations
Sep 1, 2020, 7:06 am
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As such, the "usual" rule of working each airframe as hard as possible is probably temporarily redundant.
They could indeed pare down the number of airframes in use and work each one mercilessly, squeezing out the reduced number of flights currently operating by the smallest possible active fleet; but they could also, at least for the foreseeable future under these unusual circumstances, allow the planes they are flying to sit around idle for longer in between flights, too, and have more planes than are strictly necessary to perform the schedule, with each working less hard.
A plane in long term storage/parked for long periods still requires occasional care and attention; it's not as if keeping the maximum number idle and the minimum number operational, would represent a cost benefit over having fewer in storage and more planes working less hard. As such, it may actually be justified under these circumstances to have an A321 based in MAN or GLA or wherever and just operating a once-a-day there and back, without needing to also schedule it to help fill the DUB-MAN/GLA schedule; another plane based in DUB can probably handle that. Particularly if there are some incentives or strings attached by the airports in question. (Maybe EI could operate a domestic UK sector, too?)
Now, of course, it might make sense for Aer Lingus to fly in the crew that will operate the TATL from MAN/GLA whereever on a fare-paying flight carrying passengers from DUB to position both the aircraft and the crew; but it might just as well make sense to have the plane based over there permanently, too.
Sep 2, 2020, 12:07 pm
#10
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This sounds like rattling the tin in Dublin rather than anywhere else. There aren't many airports in the UK that could or would do this, and if they did it would only be on the basis of a straight non-stop flight.
The candidates mentioned by MAN and EDI, both would be keen to have the service surely, but they do have other longhaul services so I'd be surprised if they would bid a lot. Ignoring the Carlisle/Newquay style options, we would have
- BFS Aldergrove (plausible but only if the airport owners have got the Executive backing it)
- Newcastle (dying to have a USA link for years, must be one of the six in my view)
- Durham Tees-Valley (also very keen poltically, and has the government's ear, but utterly implausible in terms of potential trade)
- Aberdeen
- Southampton (implausible)
- Inverness (implausible)
- Birmingham (plausible)
- Glasgow (must be one of the six)
- Norwich (implausible)
- Leeds (plausible)
- Doncaster
- East Midlands
Having said that, almost all UK airports have seen their cash reserves deplete in the last 6 months.
The candidates mentioned by MAN and EDI, both would be keen to have the service surely, but they do have other longhaul services so I'd be surprised if they would bid a lot. Ignoring the Carlisle/Newquay style options, we would have
- BFS Aldergrove (plausible but only if the airport owners have got the Executive backing it)
- Newcastle (dying to have a USA link for years, must be one of the six in my view)
- Durham Tees-Valley (also very keen poltically, and has the government's ear, but utterly implausible in terms of potential trade)
- Aberdeen
- Southampton (implausible)
- Inverness (implausible)
- Birmingham (plausible)
- Glasgow (must be one of the six)
- Norwich (implausible)
- Leeds (plausible)
- Doncaster
- East Midlands
Having said that, almost all UK airports have seen their cash reserves deplete in the last 6 months.
Sep 2, 2020, 2:16 pm
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Aer Lingus made it clear when the A321's arrived that they would look at opportunities to fly from the UK to US/CA. They have at least 14 neo's ordered, 4 are here, 4 to come and 6 further as XLR models
Leeds is likely a no go, runway is too short at 2250m, the LR struggles with 2800m at Dublin
Leeds is likely a no go, runway is too short at 2250m, the LR struggles with 2800m at Dublin
Sep 3, 2020, 7:30 am
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This sounds like rattling the tin in Dublin rather than anywhere else. There aren't many airports in the UK that could or would do this, and if they did it would only be on the basis of a straight non-stop flight.
The candidates mentioned by MAN and EDI, both would be keen to have the service surely, but they do have other longhaul services so I'd be surprised if they would bid a lot. Ignoring the Carlisle/Newquay style options, we would have
- BFS Aldergrove (plausible but only if the airport owners have got the Executive backing it)
- Newcastle (dying to have a USA link for years, must be one of the six in my view)
- Durham Tees-Valley (also very keen poltically, and has the government's ear, but utterly implausible in terms of potential trade)
- Aberdeen
- Southampton (implausible)
- Inverness (implausible)
- Birmingham (plausible)
- Glasgow (must be one of the six)
- Norwich (implausible)
- Leeds (plausible)
- Doncaster
- East Midlands
Having said that, almost all UK airports have seen their cash reserves deplete in the last 6 months.
The candidates mentioned by MAN and EDI, both would be keen to have the service surely, but they do have other longhaul services so I'd be surprised if they would bid a lot. Ignoring the Carlisle/Newquay style options, we would have
- BFS Aldergrove (plausible but only if the airport owners have got the Executive backing it)
- Newcastle (dying to have a USA link for years, must be one of the six in my view)
- Durham Tees-Valley (also very keen poltically, and has the government's ear, but utterly implausible in terms of potential trade)
- Aberdeen
- Southampton (implausible)
- Inverness (implausible)
- Birmingham (plausible)
- Glasgow (must be one of the six)
- Norwich (implausible)
- Leeds (plausible)
- Doncaster
- East Midlands
Having said that, almost all UK airports have seen their cash reserves deplete in the last 6 months.
BFS would likely have a fair amount of cash attached to it, but a split BFS/BHD operation can't be too attractive. I could see the LHR service move back to BFS, but the new Regional routes would surely not do so?
GLA could be an option, as you say.
LBA/DSA - again there might be good incentives from these airports, but the presence of MAN might make the business case difficult.
As I said on other threads, I think this needs to be seen in the context of the larger AA/IAG et al JV and the retirement of the AA 757 fleet. For that reason I could see MAN getting a pair of the A321s to operate NYC and/or ORD to feed the AA hubs.
Nov 1, 2020, 4:48 pm
#14
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Originally Posted by Sunday Independent
AER Lingus has entered high-level discussions with senior British government officials about operating direct services from the UK to the US, documents reveal.
In an email to Aer Lingus‘s parent company, IAG, Britain’s Department for Transport chief air services negotiator Mark Bosly thanked the airline “for our very interesting meeting” about what he refers to as “Aer Lingus UK”.
<snip>
The airline made no comment on talks with the British government or on whether a UK based service would impact its Irish operation.
Previous reports have stated that Aer Lingus was considering direct UK-US services. Aviation sources have said they believe Manchester is the most likely base.
Before the pandemic, Aer Lingus had built a strong transatlantic transfer business through Dublin from the north of England.
The airline’s management team, as well as senior representatives of its owner IAG, held at least one meeting in September with the British.
Bosly’s follow-up email later that day to IAG’S head of government affairs, Jonathan Bailey, was subsequently shared with senior Aer Lingus management, including then CEO Sean Doyle, who has since become CEO of IAG sister airline BA.
At the meeting, the Aer Lingus side raised a specific paragraph in the 2018 aviation memorandum of understanding between the UK and the US, which could be important in any bid to gain a crucial air operators certificate to operate from Britain to the US.
Bosly explained in his email that the paragraph referred to by Aer Lingus related to a “slightly obscure” provision in a 2007 agreement between the EU and the US.
It implied that “the US will not refuse permission for a majority EU-owned airline to exercise traffic rights available under a third country’s bilateral ATA [air transport agreement] with the US," he said, adding that: "In other words, in theory at least, if Aer Lingus UK was majority EU owned, the terms of EU-USA ATA already determine that the US would not refuse permission to operate under the terms of the US-UK Agreement."
Bosly said "the UK can point to the US' practice of 'waiving' O&C [ownership and control] requirements where the majority stakeholders are from countries that have 'open skies' with the US". He said that Aer Lingus "through, I would suggest, the Irish authorities" could also "remind the US side of its commitments" and said he would "recommend early engagement with the US side regarding Aer Lingus' (but please keep me and my team closely apprised)."