Aer Lingus may move transatlantic services from Shannon to the UK
Nov 2, 2020, 1:40 am
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,679
Nov 2, 2020, 5:55 am
#17
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: EIDW
Programs: Aer Lingus Concierge, Radisson Rewards Platinum, BW Diamond, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,966
Nov 2, 2020, 6:23 am
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,679
https://www.anna.aero/2009/09/25/aer...-takes-notice/
Astraeus was a UK carrier so would have had a UK AOC; having them operate SNN-LHR flights wouldn't have required Aer Lingus to obtain a UK AOC.
Nov 2, 2020, 10:08 am
#19
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: EIDW
Programs: Aer Lingus Concierge, Radisson Rewards Platinum, BW Diamond, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,966
Astraeus was involved at LGW, unclear if the AOC was ever actually obtained as clearly was never required but the intention was to be ready to fly to near Europe destinations outside EEA.
It was from the era of EI trying to be clever, but trying to be clever at LGW with Easyjet around was never going to be a success.
It was from the era of EI trying to be clever, but trying to be clever at LGW with Easyjet around was never going to be a success.
Nov 13, 2020, 5:37 am
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,679
anna.aero runs the numbers on MAN-USA routes, to see which routes might make most sense for EI if this proposal goes forward, in this article
Their assessment:
Very likely: BOS, ORD (if it doesn't cannibalise their existing 30% share of the MAN-ORD market via DUB), LAS, MCO
"Intriguing": MIA
Obvious: JFK
Quite likely: SFO
Unlikely: SEA, IAD
Their assessment:
Very likely: BOS, ORD (if it doesn't cannibalise their existing 30% share of the MAN-ORD market via DUB), LAS, MCO
"Intriguing": MIA
Obvious: JFK
Quite likely: SFO
Unlikely: SEA, IAD
Nov 18, 2020, 3:15 am
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,679
Aer Lingus adds Manchester base for Summer 2021
Originally Posted by Paxex Aero
The carrier secured just over 1,500 new slots at the airport, enough to operate a full summer of flights with four long-haul aircraft.
The application calls for three A321LR and one A330 to be based at the UK’s second gateway city for the season.
While most similar applications include destinations the Aer Lingus filing does not, leaving the door open for plenty of speculation as to what the new route map might look like. The carrier did just secure membership in the Oneworld transatlantic joint venture, giving it some additional backing from partners to help boost sales on the routes.
The application calls for three A321LR and one A330 to be based at the UK’s second gateway city for the season.
While most similar applications include destinations the Aer Lingus filing does not, leaving the door open for plenty of speculation as to what the new route map might look like. The carrier did just secure membership in the Oneworld transatlantic joint venture, giving it some additional backing from partners to help boost sales on the routes.
Originally Posted by UK Aviation News
Aer Lingus (EI-EIN) is set to launch transatlantic flights from Manchester Airport (MAN/EGCC) next year securing around 1,500 slots for the northern airport.
Sources close to the airline say that it will base Four long-haul aircraft at the Manchester, most likely a single Airbus A330 and 3 Airbus A321LR aircraft.
<snip>
The most likely destinations for Aer Lingus will be the East Coast cities of New York, Boston and Miami along with Los Angeles and San Francisco on the West Coast. Las Vegas is another destination being touted.
The slots are enough to allow the airline to operate a full summer program with the four aircraft.
Nov 18, 2020, 4:24 am
#22
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: EIDW
Programs: Aer Lingus Concierge, Radisson Rewards Platinum, BW Diamond, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,966
EI has fifth freedom rights out of Manchester as it historically used to operate DUB-MAN-Europe so this could be the start of something interesting as those LR's will need to be put to use on short haul in the gaps between TATL ops
Nov 18, 2020, 6:25 am
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,679
Perhaps the Manchester-based aircraft may take over operation of some services to Ireland from MAN, rather than adding new legs to continental Europe (it was DUB-MAN-AMS back in the day; perhaps there were others?)
Nov 18, 2020, 6:36 am
#24
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: EIDW
Programs: Aer Lingus Concierge, Radisson Rewards Platinum, BW Diamond, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,966
No question the LR will appear on DUB-MAN flights, that will feed into SEA/LAX/ORD/SFO etc the business class seating will be winner as it outclasses BA's offering via LHR. But with 3 of them MAN-AMS/CDG could be an option? Historically I think the routes ex MAN were CPH and DUS
The assumption is the A330 is going to MCO/MIA but who knows...
Could see
DUB-MAN-JFK-MAN-DUB etc would work with the LR
DUB-MCO-MAN-MCO-DUB
The assumption is the A330 is going to MCO/MIA but who knows...
Could see
DUB-MAN-JFK-MAN-DUB etc would work with the LR
DUB-MCO-MAN-MCO-DUB
Last edited by ROKNA; Nov 18, 2020 at 6:44 am
Nov 18, 2020, 11:41 am
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,679
I dunno....I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense for EI to operate to cities that already can choose EI via Dublin. If it's going to take as long as some analysts are guessing for traffic levels to recover, there probably is no destination that will have so much demand that putting on two EI options (via DUB, via MAN) will not harm the via DUB option.
Better to take passengers from *other* airlines, or see if there are unserved cities that might make sense and not damage their existing flows via DUB...so they should be looking at cities that don't have an EI service to DUB.
ORK, BHD and/or SNN to MAN and onwards to the USA might make a far better choice particularly if, as it seems, there may be a very reduced level of direct EI services from SNN next year.
They had made noises about maybe operating TATL from ORK - so maybe this would be some sort of sop to that.
Better to take passengers from *other* airlines, or see if there are unserved cities that might make sense and not damage their existing flows via DUB...so they should be looking at cities that don't have an EI service to DUB.
ORK, BHD and/or SNN to MAN and onwards to the USA might make a far better choice particularly if, as it seems, there may be a very reduced level of direct EI services from SNN next year.
They had made noises about maybe operating TATL from ORK - so maybe this would be some sort of sop to that.
Nov 19, 2020, 1:21 am
#26
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: EIDW
Programs: Aer Lingus Concierge, Radisson Rewards Platinum, BW Diamond, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,966
It will be
MAN-JFK/ORD/BOS/MCO
7 days a week (basically the old EI Dublin TATL route map)
There is scope for a MAN-DUB rotation in the timetable with an LR also
End of the day its business and with Thomas Cook and Virgin gone there is a huge hole in capacity at Manchester and the catchment area at MAN is several times bigger than Dublin and direct service is going to be very attractive. EI has the data on transfer traffic and also has a good idea on numbers who travelled from Dublin to Manchester to connect to Virgin in the past, plus it has the BA transfer data.
BA, AF, KLM, LH are all going to lose traffic. I'd expect BA to cut back frequency as it is not making a profit on MAN-LHR anyway
MAN-JFK/ORD/BOS/MCO
7 days a week (basically the old EI Dublin TATL route map)
There is scope for a MAN-DUB rotation in the timetable with an LR also
End of the day its business and with Thomas Cook and Virgin gone there is a huge hole in capacity at Manchester and the catchment area at MAN is several times bigger than Dublin and direct service is going to be very attractive. EI has the data on transfer traffic and also has a good idea on numbers who travelled from Dublin to Manchester to connect to Virgin in the past, plus it has the BA transfer data.
BA, AF, KLM, LH are all going to lose traffic. I'd expect BA to cut back frequency as it is not making a profit on MAN-LHR anyway
Nov 19, 2020, 3:13 am
#27
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: BA Blue, EI Silver, Honours Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,207
It will be
MAN-JFK/ORD/BOS/MCO
7 days a week (basically the old EI Dublin TATL route map)
There is scope for a MAN-DUB rotation in the timetable with an LR also
End of the day its business and with Thomas Cook and Virgin gone there is a huge hole in capacity at Manchester and the catchment area at MAN is several times bigger than Dublin and direct service is going to be very attractive. EI has the data on transfer traffic and also has a good idea on numbers who travelled from Dublin to Manchester to connect to Virgin in the past, plus it has the BA transfer data.
BA, AF, KLM, LH are all going to lose traffic. I'd expect BA to cut back frequency as it is not making a profit on MAN-LHR anyway
MAN-JFK/ORD/BOS/MCO
7 days a week (basically the old EI Dublin TATL route map)
There is scope for a MAN-DUB rotation in the timetable with an LR also
End of the day its business and with Thomas Cook and Virgin gone there is a huge hole in capacity at Manchester and the catchment area at MAN is several times bigger than Dublin and direct service is going to be very attractive. EI has the data on transfer traffic and also has a good idea on numbers who travelled from Dublin to Manchester to connect to Virgin in the past, plus it has the BA transfer data.
BA, AF, KLM, LH are all going to lose traffic. I'd expect BA to cut back frequency as it is not making a profit on MAN-LHR anyway
BA have a vested interest in the ervcies, as they will all form part of the JV. I would not be surprised to see BA holidays offering these routes - although Ba have traditionally been fiercely protective of LHR routes. That still exists today - LGW has been essentially closed down to protect LHR.
I think this is a brave move for EI and I do wish them success. I think there is a danger that they are trying to recreate their DUB transatlantic network, which has been a failing strategy in previous UK bases. Travel preferences and booking habits are different between the two countries. Especially for the A330 I fear the business cabin might be too large and the lack of a premium economy cabin might hurt them, I cant see EI operating into the Caribbean, Vegas or even South Africa which are very popular destinations from MAN.
Nov 19, 2020, 3:38 am
#28
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: EIDW
Programs: Aer Lingus Concierge, Radisson Rewards Platinum, BW Diamond, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,966
EI should have no issue finding crew in MAN if it cannot get anyone in Dublin to nightstop or relocate
Little Red was DUB based pilots but UK cabin crew?
Little Red was DUB based pilots but UK cabin crew?
Dec 5, 2020, 3:30 pm
#30
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: VS Flying Club (Gold), BA Exec Club (Silver), Hilton Honors (Diamond)
Posts: 59
It will be
End of the day its business and with Thomas Cook and Virgin gone there is a huge hole in capacity at Manchester and the catchment area at MAN is several times bigger than Dublin and direct service is going to be very attractive. EI has the data on transfer traffic and also has a good idea on numbers who travelled from Dublin to Manchester to connect to Virgin in the past, plus it has the BA transfer data.
End of the day its business and with Thomas Cook and Virgin gone there is a huge hole in capacity at Manchester and the catchment area at MAN is several times bigger than Dublin and direct service is going to be very attractive. EI has the data on transfer traffic and also has a good idea on numbers who travelled from Dublin to Manchester to connect to Virgin in the past, plus it has the BA transfer data.
VS have seen Manchester as a growth opportunity for many years, and it's been largely successful. Even BOS wasn't doing too bad and was due to Launch under Delta rather than VS had Covid not hit.
I seem to recall that AA used to do ORD until relatively recently, I think that would be a sensible market for EI?
