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Aer Lingus looking at new bases outside of Ireland for TATL flights

Aer Lingus looking at new bases outside of Ireland for TATL flights

Old Oct 5, 17, 3:20 am
  #1  
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Aer Lingus looking at new bases outside of Ireland for TATL flights

Interesting comments at the press conference by Mr Rutter.

''The airline is also planning to launch direct routes between the United States and mainland Europe, according to Mr Rutter.''

http://www.independent.ie/business/r...-36196781.html


It will be interesting to see where they intend to fly between. MAD-IAD was tried before.
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Old Oct 5, 17, 4:03 am
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Well, apparently there are several airports courting the likes of Emirates for service to the US. Though Norwegian may be out there scooping up the choice of all those second and third-tier cities soon.

Could be a nice little earner - getting new route subsidies.

LOT have announced two new (or perhaps 3? JFK and ORD for sure, maybe also YYZ) routes from BUD for next summer. There is probably demand/scope for similar services elsewhere in Europe, too.

Or maybe they will need to take up some flights in place of BA between the UK and the US if/when the UK loses its flying rights to the UK and can't get a new deal agreed in time after the UK crashes out of the EU and the Open Skies agreement on March 30, 2019!!!!
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Old Oct 5, 17, 6:36 am
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Well, apparently there are several airports courting the likes of Emirates for service to the US. Though Norwegian may be out there scooping up the choice of all those second and third-tier cities soon.

Could be a nice little earner - getting new route subsidies.

LOT have announced two new (or perhaps 3? JFK and ORD for sure, maybe also YYZ) routes from BUD for next summer. There is probably demand/scope for similar services elsewhere in Europe, too.

Or maybe they will need to take up some flights in place of BA between the UK and the US if/when the UK loses its flying rights to the UK and can't get a new deal agreed in time after the UK crashes out of the EU and the Open Skies agreement on March 30, 2019!!!!
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Old Oct 5, 17, 7:19 am
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It's no lie that the UK will lose all access rights to the US under the current EU/US open skies agreement on March 30, 2019 - or whatever date it leaves the EU - unless the coughing lady climbs down and accepts the oversight of the ECJ. If the UK doesn't commit to remaining party to that agreement - which is a consequence no-one voted for - it would have to then negotiate a new bilateral air services agreement with the US - which it cannot do until after it ceases to be an EU member.

Originally Posted by The Telegraph
Airlines for America, whose members include American Airlines, Southwest and United, said there was a particular pressure to get an aviation deal agreed because the sector did not have historic rules to fall back on in the event the UK and EU cannot strike a Brexit deal.

“If there is no agreement between the UK and EU by March 2019, other sectors fall back on World Trade Organisation rules but we have no legal framework under which to fly,” Nick Calio, the trade body’s chief executive, said.


“Divorce proceedings have just started but the negotiators have a lot of issues to deal with and our concern is aviation getting lost in a sea of very important issues. The EU wants to negotiate one large agreement without splitting things out but we believe you have to separate aviation.”
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Old Oct 5, 17, 7:41 am
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Originally Posted by DELLAS View Post
Interesting comments at the press conference by Mr Rutter.

''The airline is also planning to launch direct routes between the United States and mainland Europe, according to Mr Rutter.''

http://www.independent.ie/business/r...-36196781.html


It will be interesting to see where they intend to fly between. MAD-IAD was tried before.
Back on topic

I am skeptical about this. In my mind EI are super conservative with their new routes, and this sounds very bold. The MAD-IAD route was a special case due to the UA involvement, so not sure we see that repeated.

Also I thought that this sort of gig was the whole purpose of IAG creating LEVEL. I just don't see what is gained by having EI do the same thing.
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Old Oct 5, 17, 8:22 am
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I think I read somewhere that EI is somewhat cooling on the idea of running TATL flights from ORK on the A321 LRs, which was one of the proposals for them, so perhaps they will be looking for other places to serve with these planes.

EDIT: As mentioned in that Indo article!

Mr Rutter said what while a transatlantic service between Cork and the United States would be looked at, it would be unlikely to feature on the airline’s agenda for at least three or four years.
According to Wikipedia, the A321 LR has a range of 4,000 nm, which puts most of Europe within range of the East Coast...
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Old Oct 5, 17, 6:58 pm
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EI would be much better advised to play to its strengths - US Immigration and physical proximity to the East Coast - to build its hub and spoke business model to smaller US cities, rather than trying to muscle in on others' turf.
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Old Oct 7, 17, 4:38 am
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
It's no lie that the UK will lose all access rights to the US under the current EU/US open skies agreement on March 30, 2019 - or whatever date it leaves the EU - unless the coughing lady climbs down and accepts the oversight of the ECJ. If the UK doesn't commit to remaining party to that agreement - which is a consequence no-one voted for - it would have to then negotiate a new bilateral air services agreement with the US - which it cannot do until after it ceases to be an EU member.
Yes, but in that situation EI wouldn't have any basis to fly between the UK and US either. That was your point after all. If BA can't fly out, the US carriers won't be able to fly in. I don't see that happening.
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Old Oct 7, 17, 4:46 am
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Originally Posted by Dan72 View Post
Yes, but in that situation EI wouldn't have any basis to fly between the UK and US either. That was your point after all. If BA can't fly out, the US carriers won't be able to fly in. I don't see that happening.
What on earth did we do for flights before the nice EU masters controlled our skies? (Sarcasm mode off)
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Old Oct 7, 17, 11:05 am
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Originally Posted by AlanA View Post
What on earth did we do for flights before the nice EU masters controlled our skies? (Sarcasm mode off)
EI does hold a UK AOC already which helps significantly, question of course is post brexit do the route authorities which existed prior to EU/Openskies resume? EI did operate Belfast to the US via Shannon before

EU AOC won't be much good for UK to US post brexit
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Old Oct 8, 17, 6:15 am
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Originally Posted by Dan72 View Post
Yes, but in that situation EI wouldn't have any basis to fly between the UK and US either. That was your point after all. If BA can't fly out, the US carriers won't be able to fly in. I don't see that happening.
That is very true, but who knows what sort of stop-gap arrangements may be required given the likely lack of progress on just one of the various loose ends that increasingly look unlikely to be all tied up on time?
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Old Oct 8, 17, 6:19 am
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Originally Posted by AlanA View Post
What on earth did we do for flights before the nice EU masters controlled our skies? (Sarcasm mode off)
Previously all air services were agreed on a bilateral basis. Under the agreement between the UK and US [known as "Bermuda II", negotiated in 1977 and revised several times] that was superseded by the EU Open Skies deal, there were far more restrictions in place; such as limiting the airlines that could fly from Heathrow to the US.
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Old Oct 12, 17, 3:52 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Previously all air services were agreed on a bilateral basis. Under the agreement between the UK and US [known as "Bermuda II", negotiated in 1977 and revised several times] that was superseded by the EU Open Skies deal, there were far more restrictions in place; such as limiting the airlines that could fly from Heathrow to the US.
IANAL (or even an expert on international trade), so I have no idea whether Bermuda II would go into effect again after Brexit. In any event, as mentioned above, it was far from being an open-skies deal, so not all of present US-UK services could be flown under that environment. Now, if the US-UK regime does not revert to Bermuda II, I imagine it will take some time to negotiate a new bilateral, have it ratified by Congress, etc., although it might be possible for the respective governments to license each others' airlines to serve particular routes.

Im continually astounded at the ability of the Brexiteers to whistle past the graveyard, blithely assuming that post-2019 will result in unicorns pooping rainbows, safe in the knowledge that the world needs the UK, dammit, and will accept the UK's terms without a struggle.
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Old Oct 13, 17, 7:53 am
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Originally Posted by Detroiter View Post
IANAL (or even an expert on international trade), so I have no idea whether Bermuda II would go into effect again after Brexit.
Those who should be in the know - the US airline industry - appear to think not...

Originally Posted by Telegraph.co.uk
Airlines for America, whose members include American Airlines, Southwest and United, said there was a particular pressure to get an aviation deal agreed because the sector did not have historic rules to fall back on in the event the UK and EU cannot strike a Brexit deal.
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Old Nov 3, 17, 1:58 pm
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Originally Posted by AlanA View Post
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Care to cite evidence that these are lies? IrishGuy is normally well informed on such matters.

We don't have an equivalent Openskies agreement. Nor any EU-UK agreement. So it would appear we are dependent on making an agreement within the next 18 months....
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