What happened to Barcelona?

Old Oct 8, 19, 2:11 am
  #1  
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What happened to Barcelona?

I went to book a flight today, and:



I'm sure I've flown them in "low" season in years past. Is this a broken website or have they pulled out of my city?
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Old Oct 8, 19, 3:00 am
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Try setting Athens as your destination. They dont offer BCN-DUB...at least not via their website.
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Old Oct 8, 19, 6:17 am
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Thanks, Xandrios, it was "broken website". They shouldn't make the default choice unavailable.
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Old Oct 8, 19, 6:42 am
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It's not broken, it's deliberately coded to only show realistic connections. Because you had entered Dublin as your destination it would only accept Aegean origin cities that made sense to Dublin via Athens (e.g. Cairo)

For example if I put London as my origin I cannot enter Dublin as my destination because it makes no sense via Athens
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Old Oct 8, 19, 7:06 am
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Originally Posted by ajeleonard View Post
It's not broken, it's deliberately coded to only show realistic connections. Because you had entered Dublin as your destination it would only accept Aegean origin cities that made sense to Dublin via Athens (e.g. Cairo)

For example if I put London as my origin I cannot enter Dublin as my destination because it makes no sense via Athens
Out of professional and personal curiosity, do you have any idea why not? As I don't do mileage runs I would never buy such a trip, but since apparently there are customers who would be willing to pay for this service, why wouldn't a for-profit corporation offer it? As they already do bookings with layovers (unlike for example EasyJet or Ryanair), offering BCN-DUB or LHR-DUB would also (seemingly) be rather straightforward for them...
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Old Oct 8, 19, 9:49 am
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A3 doesn't let you buy some "ridiculous" routeings on their own website but they certainly file fares for some of these routes which you can buy on OTAs, and search on ITA Matrix.

Have you missed all the threads where we have reported on our flights via these "ridiculous" routes? They can be very cheap too. I have often paid less for two A3 flights (sometimes upgraded with coupons) than half the price that each flight sells for on its own (even as a return).

E.g. I did CPH-ATH-LHR for about 50 and upgraded for free, while tickets for CPH-ATH-CPH or LHR-ATH-LHR on the same flights in Y were selling for over 200 at the same time.
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Old Oct 8, 19, 10:50 am
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Originally Posted by East_and_West View Post
Out of professional and personal curiosity, do you have any idea why not? As I don't do mileage runs I would never buy such a trip, but since apparently there are customers who would be willing to pay for this service, why wouldn't a for-profit corporation offer it? As they already do bookings with layovers (unlike for example EasyJet or Ryanair), offering BCN-DUB or LHR-DUB would also (seemingly) be rather straightforward for them...
Because airlines don't go to the bother of filing fares for every potential routing - only the ones that make sense. Their website can only sell tickets for routes for which a fare has been filed. Basic geography, economics, and common-sense dictate that an airline cannot compete viably on every potential route. Airlines are in the business of transporting people - not facilitating every potential booking desired by a mileage/status hunter!

For example, here are the only airlines returned by the Matrix for DUB-BCN routings (And yes - I am aware that TK is even "crazier" for having listed a fare)

Now, of course you could get a travel agent to sell you an all-A3 ticket on this route, or hack it together yourself on a booking site that allows multistop/multicity bookings, but you would likely pay considerably more than the cheapest options on airlines that filed a routing. You sometimes see some crazy routings proposed by third party booking tools!!!
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Last edited by irishguy28; Oct 8, 19 at 11:15 am
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Old Oct 9, 19, 1:44 am
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Because airlines don't go to the bother of filing fares for every potential routing - only the ones that make sense. Their website can only sell tickets for routes for which a fare has been filed. Basic geography, economics, and common-sense dictate that an airline cannot compete viably on every potential route. Airlines are in the business of transporting people - not facilitating every potential booking desired by a mileage/status hunter!

For example, here are the only airlines returned by the Matrix for DUB-BCN routings (And yes - I am aware that TK is even "crazier" for having listed a fare)

Now, of course you could get a travel agent to sell you an all-A3 ticket on this route, or hack it together yourself on a booking site that allows multistop/multicity bookings, but you would likely pay considerably more than the cheapest options on airlines that filed a routing. You sometimes see some crazy routings proposed by third party booking tools!!!
I see. So if I get this right, this means that tickets (fare buckets) on trips with connections are priced manually and "independently" from fares on direct flights (sounds like lots of work). Since very few, if any, customers would be interested in buying them, it's not worth getting into this hassle for such "unreasonable" routes.
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Old Oct 9, 19, 1:56 am
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While there may be some manual data entry required - as in all tasks - it is not correct to say that flights are priced "manually".

But yes, you have surely noticed that the price of a BA DUB-LHR-BCN ticket, for example, is not the sum of the BA DUB-LHR ticket added to the price of a BA LHR-BCN ticket [except when you are paying with miles!!!].

The market for DUB-BCN flights is its own separate market; it has nothing to do with the market for DUB-LHR flights and it has nothing to do with the market for LHR-BCN flights, so while you might think that, objectively, it makes sense for BA to price DUB-BCN on the basis of the cost of DUB-LHR plus the cost of LHR-BCN, you have to remember that none of their competitors are pricing in this way, and that if BA does this they are automatically putting themselves at a huge disadvantage (much longer travel time; much higher price). BA (to stick with this example) set a price for the DUB-BCN market with an eye on that market. None of their competitors come up with a price that is based on anything to do with having intermediate stops in London, so BA would be rather foolish to base their price on the fact that, of necessity, they are forced to route their passengers via LHR, and price accordingly, if they want to compete in that market.

You must surely have also noticed that, in many cases (more obvious on longhaul, or on business-class trips), that connecting itineraries are cheaper than direct flights. There's a good reason for this. If you fly direct, you save time and hassle. That is worth paying extra for. If airlines that can only get passengers from origin to destination via an intermediate stop charge "full whack", then why would anyone ever book with them? To get passengers, they have to offer a price advantage. Pay less - but spend extra time travelling and have a (potentially long) layover to eat further into the total travelling time.

Last edited by irishguy28; Oct 9, 19 at 2:06 am
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Old Oct 9, 19, 2:03 am
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
While there may be some manual data entry required - as in all tasks - it is not correct to say that flights are priced "manually".

But yes, you have surely noticed that the price of a BA DUB-LHR-BCN ticket, for example, is not the sum of the BA DUB-LHR ticket added to the price of a BA LHR-BCN ticket [except when you are paying with miles!!!].
OK thanks a lot for your reply. My experience with BA is rather limited as in the past few years I have been trying to avoid flying them if possible, but I do get the point.
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Old Oct 9, 19, 2:11 am
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Originally Posted by East_and_West View Post
OK thanks a lot for your reply. My experience with BA is rather limited as in the past few years I have been trying to avoid flying them if possible, but I do get the point.
Well, don't get too fixated on BA, it was just an example.

I'm still a little surprised that TK listed a fare for that routing. But, as you can see, they are by far the most expensive.

But for Aegean, their thinking would go like this: Do we want to compete on DUB-BCN? The total flying time will be 7 hours or more on each of the outbound and inbound, and given the relative infrequency of A3 service to DUB (in particular - only 2 flights a week at the moment), there could be extremely long connection times - several days in many cases. There are direct flights, and shorter connecting flights with higher frequency, on offer for well below €200 on this O/D pair. If we were to offer prices like that, involving a total of almost 15 hours flying, we wouldn't even cover the cost of the fuel. This is a routing that doesn't make sense for us. We won't file a fare for this O/D pair.
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Old Oct 9, 19, 8:10 am
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I always recommend trying 2 segments separately to get an idea about pricing, like DUB to Athens then ATH to BCN. Then use OTA to price out DUB-BCN.

Last edited by djjaguar64; Oct 9, 19 at 8:20 am Reason: typo
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Old Oct 9, 19, 4:19 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
But for Aegean, their thinking would go like this: Do we want to compete on DUB-BCN? The total flying time will be 7 hours or more on each of the outbound and inbound, and given the relative infrequency of A3 service to DUB (in particular - only 2 flights a week at the moment), there could be extremely long connection times - several days in many cases. There are direct flights, and shorter connecting flights with higher frequency, on offer for well below 200 on this O/D pair. If we were to offer prices like that, involving a total of almost 15 hours flying, we wouldn't even cover the cost of the fuel. This is a routing that doesn't make sense for us. We won't file a fare for this O/D pair.
Well, that's all very nice but it doesn't get me my 4 segments for gold on a trip I had to do anyway.

To be clear, I didn't put DUB in there, it came up by default. perhaps for something I searched for last time I was on the website, which was weeks ago. Thus my surprise.
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Old Oct 10, 19, 2:08 am
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Try something simple, like BCN-ATH-RHO, BCN-ATH-SKG, etc.
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Old Oct 10, 19, 3:02 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Because airlines don't go to the bother of filing fares for every potential routing - only the ones that make sense. Their website can only sell tickets for routes for which a fare has been filed. Basic geography, economics, and common-sense dictate that an airline cannot compete viably on every potential route. Airlines are in the business of transporting people - not facilitating every potential booking desired by a mileage/status hunter!
Not sure, they file fares that cannot be booked on their website, and there are A3 through fares DUB BCN routed via ATH although this city pair cannot be selected on their website.
And in the past, I could even get an A3 through fare MAD BCN via ATH: cheaper than the high speed train, 20 hours in ATH included, upgradable to C with vouchers. Ah those good old days...
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