Askin001

I understand that you're unhappy with the current situation and that it's getting unfavourable for many members over time.

But as someone who lives in a heavily LH Group influenced area - Vienna/VIE that is - I can tell you that A3, notwithstanding all the "bad things" they might or not to lately, is NOWHERE near LH:
- Mileage redemption on LH is a joke: 30-35k for a business class roundtrip inner Europe/inner Asia on LH vs. 20-21k miles on A3
- Service (mostly) comes with a smile on A3, whereas LH (but not OS) just gives you a mechanical or stern look

Some other users or me could continue with these bullet points to no end.

Also, it never hurts to try other airlines as well. A3 is not the only (star alliance) airline serving (some) Greek islands => SK to Crete Island gets you some really nice miles in Premium Economy, for example. From there, you can still use some "nameless" airline to go to a smaller island. There are many options.

At the end of the day, it comes down to whatever you think is right for you.

You still make a good point about some conditions getting worse over time - which may (or may not) be a good indicator of what's ahead of us (...)

DELLAS

johnirvine

If you are so fed up with A3, then do what I have done - teach them a lesson! During the last 12 months, I have flown around 60 sectors in cheap LH/OS K, L and T class and used my A3*G card for lounge access. This means that Aegean pays for every visit. The A3*G card frequently gives me a blocked seat at the front of Y and often free emergency exit seats as well. LH in particular now has a far superior economy product to that of Aegean and I am happy to make A3 pay for lounge access. When Aegean upgrade their service to yesteryear's standard, I will be ready to once again give them my business. It is irrelevant whether A3 misses my business or not - I certainly do not miss their downgraded service. And Miles and More even allow you to claim retrospective mileage when you have used your A3*G card for lounge access.

hugolover

Operating carrier pays. You cost A3 nothing.

johnirvine

I'm not sure you are correct. My understanding is that, in *A, charging for lounges is based on the credentials used for entry. If you present a boarding pass with elite credentials printed on it, the airline issuing your card will be charged. If you present a boarding card and your FFP card is then swiped, the issuing airline is charged. Thus, if I check into a LH flight using my A*G card, Aegean will get charged even if the flight is in C. There is a thread specifically about this subject in the general Star Alliance section of Flyertalk which I started.

Xandrios

This has long been a topic of discussion/speculation. Nobody knows for sure. In my opinion, it does not make sense to have the FFP pay, especially as on many fares the FFP earns 0 miles. So that would be a net loss on a large portion of the flights (Like all lower class LH-group fares). I don't think that A3 M+B could exist if that was the case.

It makes much more sense that the airline pays. They are the one receiving the coupon value and in my opinion it would just make sense that they would be the ones paying for the 'extras' that elites receive.

But like I said...nobody really knows how airlines and FFPs handle these things...and I don't think we'll ever know for sure.

lhrpete

SQ have always told me that the operating carrier pays regardless of what it says on the *G card. Back in the day when SQ was in T3 at LHR I knew all the lounge staff well as an LPPS customer who was often on SQ but when I was on AC, SK or others the joke was always who was paying for my lounge access today, SQ or another. So it looks like the operating carrier pays and as they are deriving the revenue from the booking that is the right way for things to be.

tmac100

So, how many angels actually dance on a bill for lounge access? Personally, I find discussions like this a simple statement of followers' boredom. The lounge user pays in some tangential way through past and a current airline ticket. So what if they don't use the lounge or have a different FF membership - like my A3 membership versus my long-gone AC Aeroplan membership - they still pay for an airline ticket. I doubt that a FF membership gives a lower for cash airfare - at least in my past experience.

Dance on, angels ^

Personally, I will keep flying, maintaining my OW Sapphire and A3*G memberships - and will keep using which ever lounges I can use WITHOUT having any concern about who pays for my entry. I am simply a user of benefits I am elegible to use - and that includes extra baggage allowances when I take my bicycle touring gear to or from wherever..

johnirvine

With the greatest respect, I believe that you are entirely mistaken in your belief. Let me explain why with an example from today.

This morning, I flew from TXL-VIE-LCA on OS with a K class economy ticket issued by LH. This cost €114 which is amazing value compared to the usurious double-price fare being demanded by Aegean at the time of booking. By inserting my A3*G card in the booking, I was able at OLCI to obtain aisle seat 4D with a blocked middle seat in the Senator section free of charge on the TXL-VIE leg. For the VIE-LCA leg, I got emergency exit seat 10F free of charge (one of the best seats on OS A321s).

At TXL, I checked in at the special LH F counter and requested them to insert my LH FTL card in the booking for mileage credit (with M&B there is no mileage credit for OS K class). I then went upstairs where there are two LH lounges, one for business class and the other for First, Senator and *G passengers. The head of LH lounge services at TXL happened to be present (we know each other as I visit the lounge perhaps 30 times a year) and I asked him to explain the mechanics of charging for lounge access.

According to this well-informed official, a key feature of the LH lounge system is that there are two separate fields for priority customers. One is for mileage credit and the other is for lounge access charging. It was thus possible, in my case, to swipe my A3*G card to gain access to the Senator lounge while still crediting mileage to LH M&M. He stated absolutely clearly that lounge access was always charged to the airline issuing the FFP card used for entry. I asked him how he knew this was the case and he replied that the LH training manuals are explicit about the fact, and lounge staff are told about this during their training. Even if I was flying LH business class, A3*G would be charged for lounge access as card details need to be in place to enter the Senator lounge. The official also informed me that LH staff are encouraged to obtain *G card details from passengers to increase lounge revenue.

At VIE, I talked with the senior OS lounge attendant. She also confirmed the existence of the dual field structure for lounge charging/ mileage credit. After inserting my A3*G card, she ended our conversation with the quip: 'this is win-win - you get a better (Senator) lounge and we get to charge Aegean for your lounge access'.

The LH official at TXL emphasised that, in the end, not too much money is transferred between *A airlines as access fees cancel each other out. Nevertheless, by acting as a rational consumer and deliberately loading costs on Aegean, I hope that my individual act of rebellion will, when combined with the similar acts of others, start to place market pressures on A3 to change their ways.

If others wish to continue claiming that operating carriers bear the costs of *A lounge access, it would be good if they could do some research first to justify their claim.

fransknorge

The dual field structure is not a LH group thing but a standard of Amadeus called FTQV/FTQS. All airlines using Amadeus have it. In practice, it does not work well at all.
So either you misunderstood the Lounge Manager or he told you crap, partially.

hugolover

NYTA

A3 is often quite reasonable out of TLV . My wife is flying TLV-ATH-CMN round-trip on A3 in December for $220 which is the cheapest fare I have ever seen between TLV and CMN.

Carpacchio

Well - but something must be happening: when flying LH cheap fares, I enter my M&M card for mileage accrual. When I go to the SEN lounge, it obviously shows "access denied". When I then present my A3*G card, the lounge dragon enters something in her terminal (either she swipes the card or enters the card number), and then I am allowed to enter. Not sure this is the double entry as per above, or a separate lounge system which tracks the number for invoicing purpose ?

hugolover

irishguy28

You are making it unnecessarily difficult.

When flying on an LH ticket that won't earn anything in A3 M+B, do what I do:

1. Put your A3 M+B number in the booking. Obtain your boarding passes for all sectors showing A3*G.
2. Enjoy all your *G perks on all sectors of the ticket.
3. After the very last flight has been flown, and after waiting the requisite time to do so, perform a retroclaim via the M&M website. The miles will instantly post to your M&M account.

Simples!