No M&B from LH and SWISS in P?

Old Dec 13, 18, 7:57 am
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Dover2Golf View Post
Others may remember this better but IIRC, LH introduced P class when A3 and TK declined to use Miles & More as their frequent flyer programme and in both cases for very good reasons. They also introduced that M&M members flying TK don't get full status points but only I think 25%. In other words because A3 & TK did't play, LH threw their toys out of the cot.
I have no knowledge of this, but if true I agree it's particularly childish.
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Old Dec 13, 18, 8:14 am
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Originally Posted by Dover2Golf View Post
Others may remember this better but IIRC, LH introduced P class when A3 and TK declined to use Miles & More as their frequent flyer programme and in both cases for very good reasons. They also introduced that M&M members flying TK don't get full status points but only I think 25%. In other words because A3 & TK did't play, LH threw their toys out of the cot.
Actually, M+B was introduced long before A3 joined *A.
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Old Dec 14, 18, 3:07 am
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Originally Posted by KLouis View Post
Actually, M+B was introduced long before A3 joined *A.
Swiss, Austrian, Lot and Brussels also had their own programs before they joined M&M.
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Old Dec 14, 18, 7:41 am
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Originally Posted by RedChili View Post
Swiss, Austrian, Lot and Brussels also had their own programs before they joined M&M.
And they only adopted M&M because Lufthansa bought them.

So I really doubt the report above that Aegean and Turkish were "offered" to adopt M+M.

Lufthansa threw its toys out of the pram because TK kept adding services to German airports (even tiny places like Friedrichshafen) and Lufthansa saw this as siphoning off "their" customers: https://www.eturbonews.com/78840/luf...liance-friends

So they cut their earning rates for TK to try and prevent "their" customers from flying with TK.

(Why anyone would want to stick with M+M is beyond me, though. Awful programme!)
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Old Dec 14, 18, 8:22 am
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
And they only adopted M&M because Lufthansa bought them.

So I really doubt the report above that Aegean and Turkish were "offered" to adopt M+M.
When did Lufthansa buy LOT? I must have missed it.
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Old Dec 14, 18, 8:48 am
  #36  
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Also when did it bought Adria and Croatia Airlines ?
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Old Dec 14, 18, 8:53 am
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Originally Posted by Dover2Golf View Post
When did Lufthansa buy LOT? I must have missed it.
They didn't - I should have taken them out of the quote, but I thought the current audience would "read with a mind willing to understand" ;-)

Originally Posted by fransknorge View Post
Also when did it bought Adria and Croatia Airlines ?
As that's the first mention of those airlines, I am not sure why you think anyone said Lufthansa bought those particular airlines
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Old Dec 14, 18, 11:51 am
  #38  
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If I understand you, airlines that uses M+M belongs to the Lufthansa Group, as you doubt LH were proposed to adopt LH FFP. Reading between lines I interpret this as “only airlines of the group can use M+M”. Maybe I misinterpreted your post ?
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Old Dec 15, 18, 4:36 am
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LH certainly did at one time exert sigificant pressure on *A European Airlines to join Miles & More, LOT, Croatia and Adria caved in and did so. SAS already had Eurobonus well established as they were founder members of *A but A3 and TK were new kids on the block at the time. When A3 & TK did not do as they were told, booking class P was introduced to make travel on LH unattractive to A3 & TK members and to reduce earnings on many fares for their own members. P doesn't earn greatly on the LH group either and many M&M members refer to it as Punishment Class.
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Old Dec 15, 18, 7:22 pm
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I really can't see the logic of what you describe:

- LH wants some airlines to join M&M -fine.
- They introduce the P fare class because two of them don't want to. Hold it! TK has lots of long hauls while A3 has none. Also, potential customers from both of these airlines will now no longer fly LH, but they will fly, instead, either TK or other *A partners (or, even ST and World1 members).
- Now, how does this "punish" TK and A3? And why would the new P class lead the two airlines to overall reduce earnings for their own members?

I really have no idea why LH introduced the P class, especially since it's only LH flights that don't earn, not the ones on the remaining airlines (i.e. Swiss and Austrian; LOT has no P) that use M&M as their FF program. But I'm not satisfied by your explanations.
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Old Dec 16, 18, 3:42 am
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LH was protecting M&M and attempting to prevent mass defections to M&B and M&S by their core members based in northern Europe when A3 & TK would not use M&M. M&M is worth a lot of money to LH. They also disincentivised travel on TK by cutting tier miles to 25% of those flown to encourage people to fly LH group if they wanted to retain status.

LH are very protective of their home market hence the relationshop with TK, LH sponsored their entry to *A but LH didn't bargain for TK utilising their access to European open skies and their far better products in both business and economy to enter the German home market. LH have successfully objected to the Gulf carriers getting the level of access TK have albeit using A320 series rather than wide bodies.

TK and A3 were meant to simply feed LH services rather than have ideas of their own but things have worked out differently. At the present time the LH/LO relationship is souring as LO develop ideas of having their own long haul services. OU are simply a feeder of LH outside of their domestic network and a few European trunk routes, the main OU service operated several times a day is ZAG-FRA. Adria are lined up in the same way.

M&M for many A3 pax would be scheme that many would never gain any status in. In reality to achieve *G in A3 for the first time it's no easier than *G in Eurobonus although requalification is easier if you fly A3 but unlike M&M there is an annual requalification requirement. I don't understand TK status but I think it's marginally easier to attain. A3 and for that matter TK prefer to look after their own loyal passengers which after all is the point of a frequent flyer scheme rather than lining the pockets of LH.
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Old Dec 16, 18, 5:51 am
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Do the actual numbers of LH passengers flying P support this scenario?
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Old Dec 16, 18, 9:03 am
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Originally Posted by KLouis View Post
Do the actual numbers of LH passengers flying P support this scenario?
Just look at their reactions to the introduction of P. I was a SEN at the time and remember it well.
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Old Dec 16, 18, 10:54 am
  #44  
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I would also add that P is difficult to avoid if you are not a last minute flyer. All my booking on LH the proposed fare for business is always P, very seldomly Z or D. I book quite in advance as my plan are usually quite firm. I would assume a fair bit of the people in Business are under P fares.
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Old Dec 17, 18, 8:22 am
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Originally Posted by fransknorge View Post
I would also add that P is difficult to avoid if you are not a last minute flyer. All my booking on LH the proposed fare for business is always P, very seldomly Z or D. I book quite in advance as my plan are usually quite firm. I would assume a fair bit of the people in Business are under P fares.
And as someone who bought my first (and probably last) ever "J" fare a few weeks ago, only to miss the connection I paid $$$ for by 5 minutes, there is really no reason to buy a more expensive fare unless you don't have a choice.
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