Tripsta / Airtickets / Travelplanet24 effectively bankrupt
#16
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,845
The press release actually makes me feel more positive. After all, If Aegean are making public statements about their 'exposure' in this situation, doesn't that suggest that they expect to be losing some money over this (a rather small amount in the context of running an airline) - i.e. that the tickets would be honoured?
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Depends on a few factors. A3 have made the statement as they need to advise their investors.
#17
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
If a carrier has not been paid for tickets and the expected payor is insolvent or known to be close to insolvent, the carrier will likely demand immediate payment and that will cause the tickets to either be cancelled or paid for.
I would contact the carrier, A3 in this case, and ask how it is handling this situation. Better to pay up at discounted rates than to be forced to purchase walk-up tickets anew.
I would contact the carrier, A3 in this case, and ask how it is handling this situation. Better to pay up at discounted rates than to be forced to purchase walk-up tickets anew.
#18
Moderator: Aegean Miles+Bonus
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AMS / ATH
Programs: AFKL Plat, A3 Gold
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Another interesting piece on the matter:
Πώς κατέρρευσε η Tripsta: H αλήθεια των ισολογισμών και τα υπερπολυτελή γραφεία (νόμιζαν ότι ήταν η Google)
Basically it seems that, while they are blaming others at the moment (eg travelport), they were basically already bankrupt from 2015 onwards. However the lack of oversight in Greece still allowed them to continue for more than two years, even though it was clear that this was the only possible outcome. It only increased the debt even more.
I have no doubt they will go fully bankrupt soon. Without a source of income they will not be able to pay back these debts to the airlines, thus, airlines will try to limit their exposure - meaning they will stop honouring unflown tickets soon. Their plan to become a price comparison website, and use some refunds coming in from Amadeus is, quite frankly, ludicrous...that won't bring in the amounts that they will need for outstanding tickets.
They were doing 740M revenue per year, I am wondering if that means that they will have - besides the 70M already outstanding bills - another 300+ million of unflown outstanding tickets...
Its a classic tale of living (too) large, gathering huge amounts of debt and in the end skipping the bill and screwing everyone else in the process.
Πώς κατέρρευσε η Tripsta: H αλήθεια των ισολογισμών και τα υπερπολυτελή γραφεία (νόμιζαν ότι ήταν η Google)
Basically it seems that, while they are blaming others at the moment (eg travelport), they were basically already bankrupt from 2015 onwards. However the lack of oversight in Greece still allowed them to continue for more than two years, even though it was clear that this was the only possible outcome. It only increased the debt even more.
I have no doubt they will go fully bankrupt soon. Without a source of income they will not be able to pay back these debts to the airlines, thus, airlines will try to limit their exposure - meaning they will stop honouring unflown tickets soon. Their plan to become a price comparison website, and use some refunds coming in from Amadeus is, quite frankly, ludicrous...that won't bring in the amounts that they will need for outstanding tickets.
They were doing 740M revenue per year, I am wondering if that means that they will have - besides the 70M already outstanding bills - another 300+ million of unflown outstanding tickets...
Its a classic tale of living (too) large, gathering huge amounts of debt and in the end skipping the bill and screwing everyone else in the process.
Last edited by Xandrios; Jun 29, 2018 at 4:19 pm
#19
Community Director
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
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Posts: 8,448
The press release actually makes me feel more positive. After all, If Aegean are making public statements about their 'exposure' in this situation, doesn't that suggest that they expect to be losing some money over this (a rather small amount in the context of running an airline) - i.e. that the tickets would be honoured?
My money would still be on the tickets not being honoured.
#21
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wedged somewhere between BTS and VIE ✈
Programs: Star Alliance Gold (A3 Gold), Oneworld Emerald (BA Gold), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,336
I think the average person would take a very dim view of Aegean cancelling the tickets. Most people assume that once you've paid the agent for the ticket the airline has been paid (a view that I also held!). Therefore, if Aegean were to cancel the tickets it would leave a very bitter aftertaste for most, especially after making all their summer holiday plans (i.e. hotel, travel arrangements, tickets for attractions). They might possibly focus more of their anger at the airline rather than the company that sold the tickets, and no longer exists anyway!
Of course we don't know that actual amount that A3 is likely to lose, but they have to consider the PR aspect in all this in their decision. As a rational person I would understand if they decided to cancel the tickets....but I hope they don't!
One thing I don't understand in all this is this, if an airline goes bust, it's quite common that the customer loses their money even if the tickets was booked through an agent. If it's the case that the airline hasn't been paid until after the flight anyway, why isn't the money simply returned to the customer? I know it's the case that you can often get your money back from the credit/debit card company or travel insurance, but it seems to me the travel agents/airlines work the system so that the customer always loses out.
Of course we don't know that actual amount that A3 is likely to lose, but they have to consider the PR aspect in all this in their decision. As a rational person I would understand if they decided to cancel the tickets....but I hope they don't!
One thing I don't understand in all this is this, if an airline goes bust, it's quite common that the customer loses their money even if the tickets was booked through an agent. If it's the case that the airline hasn't been paid until after the flight anyway, why isn't the money simply returned to the customer? I know it's the case that you can often get your money back from the credit/debit card company or travel insurance, but it seems to me the travel agents/airlines work the system so that the customer always loses out.
Last edited by headingwest; Jun 30, 2018 at 2:48 am
#22
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,845
Maybe but it has nothing to do with A3. I can set up a pop up OTA overnight and resell airline tickets. The choice is yours if you book with a well established OTA or indeed to be 100% sure book with A3 direct. Travel insurance and credit card protection are essential these days that cover for these things.
#23
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wedged somewhere between BTS and VIE ✈
Programs: Star Alliance Gold (A3 Gold), Oneworld Emerald (BA Gold), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,336
Maybe but it has nothing to do with A3. I can set up a pop up OTA overnight and resell airline tickets. The choice is yours if you book with a well established OTA or indeed to be 100% sure book with A3 direct. Travel insurance and credit card protection are essential these days that cover for these things.
Regarding this particular OTA, I thought it was quite reputable. Their is always a risk with booking through a travel agent, but you can't be 100% sure even when you book directly with the airline!
#24
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 244
Working myself for a IATA agent, obviously much smaller in size, I am a bit suprised though.
As an IATA Agent, for tickets issued via BSP or ARC, you need to pay for all your issued tickets either weekly or monthly, but mosty bi-weekly. depending on the payment cycle you agreed. This is after the ticket is issued (and not after the guests travels). While most tickets will therefore be paid by the time the traveller flies, indeed it can happen that for tickets for last minute bookings, passengers have travelled before airlines are paid.
That said, amongst others for that reason IATA requires their agent to have a financial guarantee (i.e. through a bank or insurance) to cover for the next payment cycle. The amount of this guarantee is reviewed regularly depending on your revenues made.
I can only imagine those OTA have a direct link with the airline to avoid processing through GDS and BSP/ARC to save money to airline and OTA (GDS bookings produce costs, especially on the airline side), but even then I would expect an airline to make sure that the travel agent can cover their debts in case of bankruptcy, but I would believe this is then not as tightly controlled anymore as it's only something between airline and agent, and IATA or BSP/ARC are not involved anymore.
As an IATA Agent, for tickets issued via BSP or ARC, you need to pay for all your issued tickets either weekly or monthly, but mosty bi-weekly. depending on the payment cycle you agreed. This is after the ticket is issued (and not after the guests travels). While most tickets will therefore be paid by the time the traveller flies, indeed it can happen that for tickets for last minute bookings, passengers have travelled before airlines are paid.
That said, amongst others for that reason IATA requires their agent to have a financial guarantee (i.e. through a bank or insurance) to cover for the next payment cycle. The amount of this guarantee is reviewed regularly depending on your revenues made.
I can only imagine those OTA have a direct link with the airline to avoid processing through GDS and BSP/ARC to save money to airline and OTA (GDS bookings produce costs, especially on the airline side), but even then I would expect an airline to make sure that the travel agent can cover their debts in case of bankruptcy, but I would believe this is then not as tightly controlled anymore as it's only something between airline and agent, and IATA or BSP/ARC are not involved anymore.
Last edited by Reifel; Jul 2, 2018 at 1:14 pm Reason: precision
#25
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: Virgin Atlantic Silver, IHG Diamond, Bonvoy Gold, Hilton Diamond, AA Platinum Pro
Posts: 1,385
Just to be sure: this is not the same company as mytrip.com and airtickets24.com correct?
Despite their (mytrip/airtickets24) shoddy reputation, I have booked and flown numerous tickets through them without issue, so I hope they are not related entities (despite both being Greek)!
Despite their (mytrip/airtickets24) shoddy reputation, I have booked and flown numerous tickets through them without issue, so I hope they are not related entities (despite both being Greek)!
#27
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wedged somewhere between BTS and VIE ✈
Programs: Star Alliance Gold (A3 Gold), Oneworld Emerald (BA Gold), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,336
Working myself for a IATA agent, obviously much smaller in size, I am a bit suprised though.
As an IATA Agent, for tickets issued via BSP or ARC, you need to pay for all your issued tickets either weekly or monthly, but mosty bi-weekly. depending on the payment cycle you agreed. This is after the ticket is issued (and not after the guests travels). While most tickets will therefore be paid by the time the traveller flies, indeed it can happen that for tickets for last minute bookings, passengers have travelled before airlines are paid.
That said, amongst others for that reason IATA requires their agent to have a financial guarantee (i.e. through a bank or insurance) to cover for the next payment cycle. The amount of this guarantee is reviewed regularly depending on your revenues made.
I can only imagine those OTA have a direct link with the airline to avoid processing through GDS and BSP/ARC to save money to airline and OTA (GDS bookings produce costs, especially on the airline side), but even then I would expect an airline to make sure that the travel agent can cover their debts in case of bankruptcy, but I would believe this is then not as tightly controlled anymore as it's only something between airline and agent, and IATA or BSP/ARC are not involved anymore.
As an IATA Agent, for tickets issued via BSP or ARC, you need to pay for all your issued tickets either weekly or monthly, but mosty bi-weekly. depending on the payment cycle you agreed. This is after the ticket is issued (and not after the guests travels). While most tickets will therefore be paid by the time the traveller flies, indeed it can happen that for tickets for last minute bookings, passengers have travelled before airlines are paid.
That said, amongst others for that reason IATA requires their agent to have a financial guarantee (i.e. through a bank or insurance) to cover for the next payment cycle. The amount of this guarantee is reviewed regularly depending on your revenues made.
I can only imagine those OTA have a direct link with the airline to avoid processing through GDS and BSP/ARC to save money to airline and OTA (GDS bookings produce costs, especially on the airline side), but even then I would expect an airline to make sure that the travel agent can cover their debts in case of bankruptcy, but I would believe this is then not as tightly controlled anymore as it's only something between airline and agent, and IATA or BSP/ARC are not involved anymore.
#28
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: UA P1K, MR Plat
Posts: 18
I suspect that these sites pay the airline directly when possible for the reasons Reifel gave. When I looked up my receipt on the airline's website for a booking paid with Visa on airtickets.com, the payment method showed MasterCard, which probably isn't how payments using BSP/ARC/GDS are recorded.
#29
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: PAS, Paros Greece
Programs: A3 *G
Posts: 1,368
Well I finally bit the bullet and called Aegean to check the status of my airtickets.com ticket for November. The agent was fully aware of the issues but reassured me that no bookings will be cancelled by Aegean so long as they have already been ticketed. so... that sounds like good news!
#30
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,845
IATA - Billing and Settlement Plan (BSP)
https://www.talaviation.com/what-is-arc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global...ibution_system