DrHalxx

Hi all,

I know that with the new rules, if you want to book an award with two segments in two different classes then these two will have to be priced separately. What about first class? If I fly from LHR to LAX through FRA, will the LHR-FRA segment be priced separately as J since F doesn't exist? I can understand about actual availability but about a classs doesnt exist it's not really fair and it's essentially a devaluation.

Can we complain to them about that or something if its true?

irishguy28

Your question doesn't really make sense. With your first breath, you say that each sector will be charged according to the cabin. Then, with the next breath, you seem to believe that a "J" booking will be charged as "F".

Why?

(Besides - there is no "F" rate for intra-Europe Star Alliance redemptions, so how could they charge you "F" for an LHR-FRA segment, when the only options to charge for this segment are 15k (each way) in Y and 25k (each way) in J?)

Tokyoite

perfect answer!

Xandrios

I think that the OP would like to fly LHR-FRA-LAX as one redemption. For FRA-LAX there is first class to choose from, but for LHR-FRA that cabin does not exist.

If this means that Aegean will force to split the award, that means that the miles needed in total will be higher: A Europe-US award plus an Intra-Europe one. While if they allow to 'book' LHR-FRA in first (though travel in business!) the miles needed will only be those for the Europe-US award.

AlwaysFlyStar

I don't really understand the answer given. I feel like that is a perfectly reasonable question and one that I would be quite interested to know myself. If that is the case, it is a pretty good reason not to earn too many miles with A3. Though certainly wouldn't be surprising...

To OP, you can complain to them all you like, but don't expect them to be tremendously receptive.

lukulius

This sounds like a reasonable question to me too. This increases the cost and makes first class redemption unappealing. From a business point of view I don't really understand why the airline would choose to charge more points when in fact the redemption ends up with lower service for one of the segments. One might expect the opposite.

irishguy28

Indeed. But in such a case, one should look for a direct routing. LHR-LAX is operated direct by 2 *A airlines so there should be no need to "detour" via FRA, especially when this causes an increase in price.

If the OP really wants the LH experience on FRA-LAX, then they should consider booking just that sector (and making their own arrangements for getting to FRA. Or booking a Y segment from LHR-FRA - I see little point in redeeming miles for this short sector, though, certainly not in J).

Of course, this discussion is all likely theoretical, as I have yet to see any F availability at all via the A3 booking mechanisms.

irishguy28

I think it's clear to everyone - it was clear to the OP in the first line of their original post - that when an award is issued with different sectors in different classes, then the "cost" is calculated not on the entire trip at the highest rate, but instead the ticket is "broken down" in the parts that are booked into the various cabins.

(I answered the question above. As is highlighted with the green bar I added to the Star Alliance table above, when a change of cabin-class occurs at a stopover/layover point, then regardless of whether it is an actual stopover (>24 hrs) or a mere layover (<24 hrs), and regardless of whether this cabin-class change is imposed by the simple fact that there is no corresponding cabin on one of the sectors that gets you to that stopover/layover point [and as we all know, there cannot be any "F" cabin on any intra-Europe sectors, as confirmed by the lack of an intra-Europe F award redemption amount in the redemption table], then you have to pay for the various cabins separately).

The sudden inability to process what this means for asking for a redemption in F that includes sectors where there is no F - and, as shown above, there is not even any "price" given in the table that would allow them to charge "F" for these phantom, non-operated "F" sectors - is baffling.

Do you think that the above rule should only apply in cases where the customer demands to be put in different cabins? And that, in the example given, because there is no "alternative", they should be allowed to book any routing involving other cabin sectors but not have the rule applied?

Again, because we are talking about "F" here, I think we are largely talking about hypotheticals; it will be very difficult (I think) to book ANY ticket in F using Aegean.

However, there are direct options in F on *A from LHR to LAX (United and Air New Zealand); as such, if these are not offered or not available, it doesn't necessarily mean that alternatives - whether via ZRH, FRA, or wherever else, should also be offered at the same rate as the direct service.

If you do a standard search, even in Economy, you will see that there are variations in the amount of miles needed. For this indirect F/J scenario, the reasons therefor are clearly spelled out, and apparently understood by all (if, perhaps, some appear to mistakenly believe this rule should only apply when "demanded" by the applicant's own request to sit in different cabins. However, it applies in all such cases, even in cases where the routing involves routings where the same cabin is not operated on all flights.)



One should never use an FFP as a "store" for building up miles. You should aim to use them ASAP. All FFPs are subject to routine changes and devaluations. FF miles are not liquid, like cash. Your ability to spend them can be changed at any time, with limited notice.


Bear in mind that here are many FFPs which charge on a per-sector basis for ALL redemptions - not just as here where a sector ends up being (whether by choice, or by necessity) in a different cabin class.

From a customer point of view, and particularly given that we are all members of a forum dedicated to the discussion of frequent flyer mileage (welcome, by the way!), it is well-known that all FFPs have their sweet spots, and their black holes. The customer has enough information to determine what works well for them. The customer should also bring a lot of flexibility when seeking to redeem their FFPs because, again, they are not liquid like cash.

The customer that cares about these things should do their research and obtain the best use for the miles that they can. It is somewhat naïve to think that all potential uses of miles should be equally compelling/rewarding.

In the present case, if I were to wish to redeem in F, then I would restrict myself to doing so only on a direct routing, or at least on routings whereby all sectors are longhaul and operated with F cabins, for which seats are available.

Rather than settle on a route/date/destination, and then go to the FFPs to book it, you really need to start the other way around - "play" the FFP to obtain the best ticket that you can make use of. Yes, you need to be flexible.

(See example below. Would you take the 57,500 part-Economy, part-Business option, when there is all-Business available for 45,000 on the same flights? And when there are all-Economy options available for 30,000 on other flights? Clearly not - it's not the best use of your miles.

Perhaps if it was the only option - such as the purported LHR-FRA-LAX option - but when you can find better options, then it is pointless to complain about the standout bad value tickets)

ErnstH

The point is, it used to not be like this. It is simply a (nonsensical) change/devaluation. Case in point, I just yesterday flew an award HND-BKK-SIN. First leg in F, second leg in J (no F offered). I booked this before the change and paid 40k miles. With the change this costs 61k miles... I do hope this is just a temporary limitation of the online booking system but I fear the worst.

pogonation

Agreed that it is a stupid rule. If you can book LHR-FRA-LAX in business for both sectors then you should be allowed to do the same with Y for the first sector or LHR-FRA-LAX in F with first sector in J. I also hope it is temporary and reckon status members should all email to state their displeasure with this change... Perhaps that would get them looking into it.

KLouis

Stupid rule but bad example! You can book (and fly) LHR-FRA-LAX in J while you can't in F!

Tokyoite

The FFP makes the rules, we just follow them, be they stupid, non-nonsensical, uneconomical, erroneous etc.
If you dont like the rules, let your miles expire.
As mentioned above, miles are accrued and used at the pleasure of the FFP.
That is why FFPs devalue/change the rules to suit them every time.

Miles are but a carrot at the end of the loyalty stick. Stick to one airline/alliance, and you will get "a free ticket" sometime in the future.
We passengers get baited, but still, some passengers are good at maximizing the value of the miles, while others aren't.

There still are many sweet spots on the A3 chart/rules, and yes, some benefit, others cry foul for the bad features of the A3 chart/rules.

What would the OP say if A3 suddenly added close in booking fees like Alaska, United and American?
Or if A3 added cancellation fees like Alaska, Lifemiles, United, Aeroplan and others?
Or if A3 added a no cancel policy within 24 hours of the first flight, like BA Avios?


I would just advice the OP to stop wining and find a lucrative way to burn your remaining miles, then move on to another FFP (which will get devalued in the end anyway).
If the OP really wants to fly F from FRA, and can get the direct flight booked, then just get a separate economy ticket out of London! That's the cost of flying F out of FRA.

pogonation

Re-read my post.. that's exactly what I said!

KLouis

I've been reading and re-reading your post and I can't really see what else you mean. Sorry!

pogonation