Romanianflyer

Same here recently:

Of a 2-leg itinerary (of which one was e dupgraded) none credited automatically. Retroclaiming instantly credited the non-upgraded flight, but the upgraded one gave an error while doing so. But about a month later (I was lazy to call) and I just see the upgraded flight was credited too!

So probably even an error at retroclaim triggers the miles to credit eventually (as I never put my FF number in the original booking).

irishguy28

What refund are you expecting?

The upgrade coupon cannot be refunded. And as you had a "cheap ticket", it is also unlikely that you can cancel that (the terms of the original ticket still stand, even if the original ticket itself no longer exists).

Even if your original ticket was cancellable, I doubt you can do so now. By having had A3 re-issue the ticket (this is what happens; a brand new e-ticket number is generated after you apply your upgrade certs), the original agent cannot now touch your reservation, as that ticket no longer exists. And A3 cannot cancel the original ticket because they were not the agent that issued it and received the payment thererfor.

The original ticket is now gone; you should not upgrade a ticket until you know you can take the flight, or ensure that you buy the original ticket from Aegean themselves.

NWIFlyer

I'd agree with this. There is a new ticket issued, and I would think that means A3 themselves take over the booking. Who does CheckMyTrip say issued the ticket?

This means you have effectively fallen into a black hole - your original ticket doesn't exist because it's been superseded, but only by one that effectively has zero value because it's a free upgrade (and hence there's no refund value attached).

For the amount of money you're likely to get back in taxes, minus any admin fee, I suspect this is going to be one that's not worth the aggravation of fighting.

Nonetheless, it would be extremely interesting and useful information to get into the wiki as a warning, so if you can glean more info from sticking your various booking and ticket numbers into to CMT then the rest of the FT community may at least benefit from your apparently misfortune.

benberg2013

This has happened with 2 reservations of mine.

The first was TLV-LCA-LHR. Ticket originally issued by OTA - Budgetair, then called aegean to upgrade with coupons. New ticket issued by Aegean. OTA sending me to A3, A3 sending me to OTA.

Second was my recently cancelled trip because of the Strikes 7th APR.
TLV-ATH-ZRH, bought through OTA (bravofly), upgraded with coupons, new ticket issued by A3. Now A3 cancelled it yesterday, so I guess i will have problems refunding this, becaiuse of the upgrade and new ticket issued.

irishguy28

In the case of the strike-affected travel, you probably have a greater case of getting the upgrade cert back. However, they may prefer you to just rebook for another day (it is possible to rebook upgraded flights; technically, it's not allowed to cancel them, meaning that you can "move" the upgraded flight to another day, but you can't cancel it).

Given that they were the ones that "cancelled", though, I would ring and ask to have the upgrade cert returned.

However, as there is probably no mechanism for doing this, you would probably require to have another booking made on which they could instead apply the upgrade for you, against the normal rules. However, and again given that this is not standard practice, the danger exists that, in doing so, they simply use any remaining upgrade certs that you may still have in your account - so the only way to verify that the cert was truly re-issued would be if you could ring up asking to have a new upgrade given to you, with no remaining upgrade certs left in your account.

(Given your woes, I would recommend that you:
a) only upgrade once you know that you will travel - it seems relatively straightforward to get upgrades on A3 so it is probably not *that* pressing to upgrade immediately - bide your time and wait; and
b) buy your ticket from the A3 website (I rarely see much of a price advantage buying it elsewhere); at least then you have no third party agent getting in the way)

FlyingDobber

I flew back from ATH to LON on Saturday in I class and miles posted on Monday morning, same for outbound the previous week. I did get a call in Athens from A3 to say my waitlist (ATH-LON) had cleared and I would need to call for retro claim but it went though anyway.

benberg2013

Thanks irishguy for the analysation of the situation, and the advice.

However, let me fill you in on some more details which may shed light to sime of your points.

First of all, I purchased this ticket, TLV-ATH-ZRH via an OTA, the A3 online price was around 100 GBP and so were all OTAs around that price, however this one was 63 GBP,seemingly a mistake that they had not yet updated the prices to reflect the new booking class availability. This is why i booked it via an OTA, when normally i agree, its always better through A3 website itself.

Secondly, with my case , TLV-ATH-ZRH, I told them to cancel my ticket, but i said i do not want to lose the 2 upgrade coupons i used, so they said," OK, no prob we will refund the coupons back into the account the were taken from, (which incidentally was not mine). This is because you did not cancel the ticket, rather A3 cancelled the flight, albeit due to the strike,". After the call, I login to the account, I could see the coupon returned there.

And thirdly, I have a friend, he had a flight TLV-ATH-LHR on the same first flight as me. I upgraded his second leg for him, but then it was cancelled due to strike. So i called A3 , and the agent said they could re-book the flight for him to TLV - LCA-LHR. However, since there is no I class availability, the upgrade could not be used for that flight, so he would have to be in economy, with the original fare rules, which was the go-light fare with 0 luggage. I said, the only reason we wanted the upgrade is for the luggage, so could they give him 2 luggages, but no business class? She said she would speak to the manager, and call me back. 10 minutes later, she calls and says, yes the manager has said we could give you the 2 baggages. So i expected to receive a new confirmation saying both flights in economy, but 2PC, however, the e-ticket comes, and it shows that the second leg is in business class, and in booking class D which is a revenue ticket class (and earning 150% miles!). That was a nice surprise.

So,

A) they have told me I should speak to my OTA for a refund, which I prob wont get
B) They can refund coupons to the account,
C) they can re-book into revenue Business class, however, YMMV.

Air Rarotonga

The operating carrier can rewrite tickets without 'taking over' the booking.

An upgraded ticket keeps it's value as it was originally issued. With the upgrade the ticket, will be rewritten and the old ticket coupons will get the status exchanged. Old and new tickets were linked. The responsability and control of the booking will still be at the original issuance office (TA).

A) Correct way. If any refund (depending on fare rules or A3 strike policy), you've to claim it via your TA.
B) To be able to refund coupons or following rules are two different things.
C) Sure they can. But it's demanded to much to rebook a cheapo TA ticket upgraded with coupons to rebook it on a different carrier into business class (rules).

skrosvik

Do I still have to use four UG vouchers for OSL-SKG-OSL, via ATH? There is not much C class service between ATH and SKG.....

NWIFlyer

No, you can just upgrade the sectors you want.

DELLAS

Although depending on airlines/GDS the original agent can loose control and visibility over the booking. Also things like sched changes might not show up with the original agent.

ericw

Sorry if this was asked before...

I have a TBS-ATH-HEL flight booked on A3.com, golight fare coupon upgraded to 'I'. The flight has a 2 hr cnx in ATH and lands 4 hr before my St peters line ferry to St petersburg.

I understand I cannot change the ticket myself. What if it is an IRROPS?
Will I be rerouted by A3? especially accommodated on another airline if there is no other A3 flight for the rest of the day?

Thanks!

NWIFlyer

This is no different than if you were in Y - in the event of Irrops, A3 is legally bound to look after you under EC261.

This does not necessarily entitle you to re-routing on another carrier - just at "the earliest convenience". Most airlines will choose to route on their own metal first, even if they have to pay for an overnight hotel, then within their Alliance, and only at a last resort outside Alliance. This is even more likely to apply if you're seated in Business, certainly on a free upgrade, because A3 is even more unlikely to want to pay out for "comparable conditions" on another airline. This interpretation has never been knowingly legally tested, but the general consensus seems to be that the airline would win if it ever came to court - although in a single flight a day scenario it's muddier.

In the end, this comes down to your attitude to risk - A3 will certainly not be liable for your consequential loss. You should consider adequate travel insurance to cover you.

ericw

Thank you very much for the information. Darn! I just realized on my flight and my cruise are charged to 2 separate credit cards (amex plat and a visa infinite that both offer trip interruption insurance, but wont work unless i charge the full cost on 1 card). I might just purchase another insurance just in case.

Knobbgb

Well, probably a good idea but (and I don't know how familiar you are) Aegean are pretty much VERY good at being on-time in regular ops. If it were me I would have no worry at all about the 2hr connection at ATH and then 4hrs in HEL.

BUT... what they ARE very susceptible to are strikes! Usually by the Greek ATC. That's about the most likely thing to mess up your plans. In that case they are very good at contacting people in advance and re-booking or refunding. If there is a strike you will probably have the option of travelling a day early, although your accommodation in HEL would then be at your own expense.