izzik

The only thing Aegean has to do is issue everyone a new card (with new design and correct expiry date), then inform everyone that the new card is the only acceptable option for use.

Nobody knows for certain what will happen with the fraudulent expiration dates.. But if you have no problem with minor public humiliation at the lounge desk, then I guess it couldn't hurt. ;-)

GUWonder

The expiration dates on already issued cards are not fraudulent. The dates on these cards were put on the cards by A3. Or are you accusing A3 of being responsible for fraudulent dates?

NWIFlyer

... which is exactly what I expect to happen.

The wording in the *A Reference Guide says that the passenger must present a boarding pass showing *G, or a valid FFP card (or some other method, which would effectively be a screenprint or the record in the *A status database, neither of which would work).

There are at least two things A3 could do to get round this, depending how far legally/within *A rules they believe they need to go:

- close the existing M&B programme down, call the new one something highly original like "New M&B", allow a one-time transfer of miles at 1:1, status match as they saw appropriate from the closed programme and issue new cards with an expiry of 11/2015. A card from a FFP that no longer exists within *A is never going to be considered "valid".

- declare to *A that all existing cards are invalid and only cards with a new design should be accepted after (insert date, either 12/2014 or sometime in 2015). This is pretty straightforward - all lounge agents will have a chart showing acceptable cards and designs and they'd simply match the two. Maybe one or two will slip through if agents are too lazy or busy to check, but they are becoming more-and-more on the ball and it wouldn't pay it rely on it.

The point is - the customer does not decide what constitutes a "valid" card. *A and/or the airlines define that.

GUWonder

Easier said than done. A3 has legally-binding contracts that frustrate your plan from being realized within a few months.

Also, the point is that representations made to customers in the form of a card and related benefits at time of its delivery of card may be considered legally binding on A3 and not changeable at a whim. There are some jurisdictions with relevant legal regimes which aren't so airline-friendly by default as US courts.

jason8612

Agreed. I don't know if any EU laws would protect the old cards or the old rules.
As per the current rules, I had a flight credited June 2014. I should have gold till June 2017. My card is valid till Dec 2016.
There could be some possibility of consumer protection in the EU.

NWIFlyer

Except none of us knows how long these plans have been in the pipeline. A3 might already have reached agreement with all its partners to transfer to the new programme. This is nothing like BD where there were competing interests in the alternative FFP (BAEC) and notice periods had to be seen out. One actually continues with MBNA so Diamond Club still exists, but it's impossible to collect any miles in it other than from the single partner, and those must be transferred over.

You could try taking A3 to court, but there are examples already where FFP's have changed T&C's on qualification and burning and these have been upheld. You might win the argument, but there's also a decent chance A3 would as well by countering that you had failed to meet their qual requirements and therefore were not entitled to the status you were claiming. The cost v risk wouldn't add up to me, given the money might be better spent paying for flights to qualify anyway.

For many US members who have been using lounges but not crediting, A3 could also point to their rule that prohibits that and terminate membership.

GUWonder

I am certain that not all A3 M&B contract partners have been given any notice of a program dissolution. I am certain that I know not of even one such contract party to have been given notice.

DELLAS

Which is what is likely to happen. An instant update to all Star Partners is not hard and most likely already been processed. Lounges will have an A4 sheet and on the intranet which cards are valid and which are not. They may also highlight the digital card as being a temp solution for those that have not received cards by the time the cut off date starts.

As for going to court you are on a hiding to nothing.

NWIFlyer

Well, even if that's true there's still over a year to get partners transferred over. If they can't, all that needs to happen is the partners are left on the old scheme (as BA has done with Diamond Club) and a miles transfer is available.

We're not talking about an enormous FFP with lots of partners to negotiate with - they're almost all Greek based and negotiations will probably be very straightforward.

However much anyone would like to form a legal argument, I seriously doubt it'll hold up in any sensible court.

nk15

I am guessing they have studied the legal ramifications before they made the changes, and have confirmed that the 2-month notice and the one year extension of gold status would cover them within the EU.

GUWonder

Far bigger airlines with far bigger legal budgets have managed to not check things appropriately in all the European jurisdictions relevant to their program members before finding out that they had exposed themselves by way of program actions of questionable legality.

I have no doubt that A3 can change the program in various ways, but invalidating legitimately issued cards and/or otherwise attempting to short-date benefit validity after legitimate issuance of cards to program members who haven't violated the terms of the program may well be legally actionable.

bigmarley4

FML, I started the qualification process this summer and still need about 8K tier miles (and planned to get another 6K before Dec). I assume I just should give up and start crediting back to my normal *A airlines?

Question 2: can I get A3 to give back the miles I credited for a recent flight? If I can't get to Gold with them I would rather just have my most recent trip (about 5K miles) go to my normal FFP.

Thanks everyone for your advice!

RTW1

You do know where A3 is located?

NWIFlyer

To be fair, whilst I think legal action has little chance of succeeding and actually is a little fatuous (some people have played the game and now maybe they've lost a little of what they've already gained), this isn't particularly relevant. EU law (and probably most international law as well) is based around the premise that if a company has an office in a given country, then it has to abide by the legal jurisdiction of that country.

NWIFlyer

Absolutely no chance whatsoever!