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ALL - Accor Live Limitless (to replace Le Club from 2020)

ALL - Accor Live Limitless (to replace Le Club from 2020)

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Old Mar 5, 19, 4:54 pm
  #166  
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... Does a very infrequent leisure traveller, spending bucket loads every time.... need Diamond?
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Accor is reading what we're posting. That is why I'm pushing for dialogue here.
Nothing is set in concrete yet.
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Old Mar 5, 19, 5:22 pm
  #167  
 
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Originally Posted by gilbertaue View Post
... Does a very infrequent leisure traveller, spending bucket loads every time.... need Diamond?
​​​​​​
Accor is reading what we're posting. That is why I'm pushing for dialogue here.
Nothing is set in concrete yet.
Maybe? We have no idea, because we have no idea what the benefits are! They could be perfectly useful benefits to the leisure traveller. Or not.

The only thing that seems to be set in concrete, or at least announced, is the qualification criteria.
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Old Mar 5, 19, 5:27 pm
  #168  
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Originally Posted by gilbertaue View Post
... Does a very infrequent leisure traveller, spending bucket loads every time.... need Diamond?
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It somewhat depends on how you define "infrequent".

I have a good number of clients who used to spend 10-20 night per year at various Fairmont hotels (many of whom were very, very loyal).

The Fairmont FPC program did a truly outstanding job at building loyalty among those members.

Some "common member profiles":

- member returning to the same properties every year
- members choosing their destination based on whether there is a Fairmont there
- members who very much appreciated their 10-20 nights at Fairmont hotels as a Platinum and made an effort to earn Platinum status by booking a few more stays for pleasure/business

The Accor program is largely useless in generating loyalty from those members. When booking a high-end / luxury hotel via Amex FHR, Travel Leaders Select, Virtuoso etc. offers greater benefits than the top Accor status level currently offers, there's minimal reason to remain loyal.
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Old Mar 5, 19, 7:08 pm
  #169  
 
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Originally Posted by gilbertaue View Post
...
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Accor is reading what we're posting. That is why I'm pushing for dialogue here.
Nothing is set in concrete yet.
Accor is reading these comments ??? Oh !

I have basically had my say and am clearly in the minority among regular Accor FT posters but since Accor is reading this thread let me have one more go.

I am based in and only travel in Southeast Asia. There must be many guests like me who use your hotels here (inexpensive market), as well as some other inexpensive markets around the world where you operate. Don't ask me to name those markets because I don't know. Of course there are many luxury properties in Southeast Asia that can get us to Diamond status should we so choose. However in my very happy one year and two and a bit months with Accor (except for IT glitches and useless centralized customer service) I have really enjoyed staying in some really lovely, loyalty friendly properties which I had been planning to return to for long stays after trying them out with short stays last year, as well as trying new (for me) properties in regional and interesting (for me) towns/small cities such as Medan/Palembang/Bandung etc. The dilemma for me is that they are inexpensive (mid-scale such as Novotel Mangga Dua, Jakarta, premium and even a couple of economy brand properties: for example, the new Ibis Styles Siem Reap, Cambodia, with only 112 rooms) so although enjoyable (for me) they will not provide me with many Status Points. If I stay too long in these properties then there is no way I would achieve 26,000 Status Points.

So I still hope that Accor will recognize that frequent stayers may also be profitable (depending on the valuable questions regarding profitability asked by @CanadaDH above). I also don't know which kinds of properties are more profitable for Accor. On the Marriott board I have read that their Select Service brands are extremely profitable due to lesser costs with regard to staff and facilities etc.

Just a bit of background regarding my individual profile. Boring, I know. I really loved the SPG loyalty programme. My last full year with legacy Starwood properties was 2017 . . . 229 paid nights ranging from Luxury, Premium and Select Service brands . . . concentrating on the individual properties which I liked from experience (management/loyalty culture) as well as trying new properties. But starting in 2017 I could see standards dropping.

So in 2018 I tried Accor for the first time. This was a very unusual year for me with over 300 nights in hotels . . . usually closer to 200. My final paid Stay with the new Marriott was June 2018 and the standards had really dropped. Stopped at about 130 paid Marriott nights last year and then switched to Accor with about 120 nights, but also started redeeming all my Marriott points for nights which I have almost finished doing (about 100 nights because I only used the cheaper Category 2/3 properties which I liked).

Until the announcement of the new 26,000 Points requirement I was all set to use Accor hotels exclusively once my Marriott points are finished (by next month). But now I am not sure. I am a solo traveler. I enjoy Suites as much as everyone else but they are not important to me. Suite upgrades will not make me chase Diamond . . . sometimes I am lucky and sometimes not and that is fine with me. Of course I would very much want Suite upgrades if traveling with family.

My nights with Accor last year were spent in Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and Cambodia, and included (from memory) two Raffles, one Fairmont, two Sofitels, one So Sofitel, five Pullmans, two Swissotels, two Grand Mercures, about five Mercures, three Novotels, and a few Ibis/Ibis Styles and one All Seasons. This year I have recently completed 60 nights in one Sofitel, and will try another (new for me) Sofitel and Raffles within the next few days.

But the Diamond criteria really presents me with a dilemma. I don't know whether it will increase or decrease my Accor Stays and spending from now on.

@Kaizen07 rightfully points out that certain brands make it easy to achieve 26,000 Status Points but those brands may not necessarily be the most enjoyable for me. Hotel preferences are completely subjective. Many Starwood people love St Regis. I hated that brand finding it boring and pretentious, and didn't give a hoot about the beautiful and massively expensive artwork, marble, decor etc. @jiunsoh pointed out that it may be more difficult to burn points and still achieve 26,000 Points in inexpensive markets. I am also wondering about being able to take advantage of the various Private and other Sales and still achieve the Status Points. (By the way, I am assuming that inexpensive does not necessarily mean less profitable due to lower operating costs in those markets.)

Maybe I am a bit paranoid but I also do not look forward to keeping track of 26,000 Status Points being posted correctly to my Account, and the time involved in seeking that they are posted.

At this particular point in time, I have not decided which way to go . . . either to aim for 26,000 Status Points or to be satisfied with Platinum and continue to stay exactly where I want to stay (Accor and non-Accor) without worrying about this target. So far I can say that I am still on target with about 10,000 Status Points at the beginning of March.

Of course, it would be easier to decide if the Diamond benefits were already decided.

@Kaizen07 pointed out that the investment required for Accor Diamond is about USD $8,000 cheaper than Marriott's Ambassador service. Although we don't know the Diamond benefits I am also kind of equating these two Status levels. In the traitor thread I mentioned that I have held Starwood/Bonvoy Ambassador status for three years and this will be my last year. In my experience it is absolutely wonderful 50% of the time, and pretty much of no consequence the other 50% of the time (very roughly speaking).

In a nutshell, I hope that Accor will reconsider its decision not to provide a Nights criteria for access to Diamond status. You operate globally, not just in Europe, Japan, Singapore, Australia and other normally expensive markets. And you operate thousands of Premium, Mid-Scale, Economy brand properties. Surely you can come up with a number of Diamond Nights that is profitable for you, and set appropriate Diamond benefits for non-Luxury/Premium brands.

@gilbertue . . . you are a usually a very generous and welcoming fellow . . . why do you believe that number of nights should not be considered for even Platinum status ? Do you think that too many people will do 60 nights at a cheap Ibis and then take advantage of their Platinum status to do many nights at Premium and Luxury brands with an adverse effect on higher spenders ? This is a genuine question. Do you think this is happening and too many people are taking advantage of what you consider to be a loophole ?

Last edited by Kobetraveller; Mar 5, 19 at 8:45 pm
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Old Mar 5, 19, 7:23 pm
  #170  
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Originally Posted by Kobetraveller View Post

@gilbertaue . . . you are a usually a very generous and welcoming fellow . . . why do you believe that number of nights should not be considered for even Platinum status ? Do you think that too many people will do 60 nights at a cheap Ibis and then take advantage of their Platinum status to do many nights at Premium and Luxury brands with an adverse effect on higher spenders ? This is a genuine question. Do you think this is happening and too many people are taking advantage of what you consider to be a loophole ?
Dear @Kobetraveller thanks for this very interesting insight in your post above.

To your question above. I am looking at it from the point of view of how Accor is suggesting Diamond to be obtained - cash expense only. So assuming they ONLY want cash spent, I am suggesting to at least put some nights in there so you don't have people who stay 10 nights a year consider themselves loyal (though I also understand where @Jasper2009 is coming from in his argument).
So I am not looking at it the other way around of what could Accor do to be more generous, but rather: Accor has set their requirement, but maybe they need to tweak it. If it would have been nights OR spent, then they would have easily set it as it would have been the 'status quo' way of doing things and may have simply said 26,000 points OR 100 nights.
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Old Mar 5, 19, 7:55 pm
  #171  
 
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I couldn't remember where I saw a statement Accor wants to reward member that stay more at hotel than home., So that time I was thinking could it be 180 status night (triple current plat requirement) for all-diamond.. then now revealed diamond only count status point.
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Old Mar 5, 19, 8:02 pm
  #172  
 
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Nearest ibis room rate is around $29/night.
you will need longer year to reach 26000status point

If diamond really only achieved through status point then I guess Accor want people to stay more on their higher end offerings.
Do Multiple rooms spending still count?

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Old Mar 5, 19, 8:20 pm
  #173  
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Originally Posted by kaizen7 View Post
Nearest ibis room rate is around $29/night.
you will need longer year to reach 26000status point

If diamond really only achieved through status point then I guess Accor want people to stay more on their higher end offerings.
Do Multiple rooms spending still count?

Probably the usual, 2 rooms, + any combined spending
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Old Mar 5, 19, 8:40 pm
  #174  
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Kobetraveller. Nice to hear you are enjoying your experiences with Accor hotels. I am based in China and so the majority of my stays (80%+) are in China. Now it is not as cheap as Southeast Asia but they can Still be relatively cheap. I won't stay at an Ibis in China as it gets you zero everything. But it os possible to find some Pullmans, Novotels, Mercures and even a few Sofitels selling rooms for 300-500 rmb per night after tax. So that translates to 40-70 Euros.

I find my annual loyalty comes to 25-35 nights and around 14,000 status points though 1 year that was up to 18,000 status points in 2017.

If you are happy with platinium membership then nothing will change apart from a positive which is you will get a suite cert hopefully for 5-7 nights max. Maybe I understand if we don't get Diamond we might not feel happy not being top rank but it really does not matter that much.

I like the Idea of adding a 20 or 30 night minimum added on to Diamond. I would guess from the actions from Accor that Luxury hotels and mid scale hotels does make more profit for Accor per dollar spent.

So we can deduce that from Diamond membership not allowing by nights and the fact that Ibis brands earn no or half the regular rate of points.

Why Accor still probably makes big money from Budget hotels? Because they have a huge number of budget hotels and a larger number of rooms compared to Luxury. Luxury hotels is a small market but can be highly profitable per dollar spent.

Those people spending on average more than 800-900 Euro per night and accumulating 26,30,35k plus status points might even be instead offered the invitation only tier.
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Old Mar 5, 19, 10:05 pm
  #175  
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Originally Posted by lefrid View Post
The french version is clear (unfortunately). Bold is mine. It really says "for one night"
"Séjournez plus, gagnez plus :
- Dès votre statut Platinum, recevez un surclassement en suite pour une nuit, réservable à l’avance et garanti.
- Gagnez-en un deuxième dès 18000 points Statut.
- Et un supplémentaire tous les 4000 points Statut, dans la limite de 12 par an. "

Which makes that cert pretty unusable on vacation forcing people to change room,...
Hitting Diamond would grant you 4 certs which together make it possible to have a small-ish stay in a suite.
In short: useless for "<18000" Plats and Diamond is really the target to aim.

My 2 cents
Thanks for finding this out. It really sucks. I started getting a bit excited about these upcoming changes, much less so now. I mean how cheap is that...who goes to a hotel for that special occasion holiday for one night. This is pretty much useless if it stays like this...

It reminds me of when they announced new benefits for Plat members staying at Fairmont hotels last summer. One of them was a free local (but not international) newspaper delivered to your room daily. The thinking must have been: 'the international paper would cost us 50c more to buy so local will do just fine for our highest tier members staying in a 5 star hotel.'
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Old Mar 5, 19, 11:10 pm
  #176  
 
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Originally Posted by R2 View Post
Thanks for finding this out. It really sucks. I started getting a bit excited about these upcoming changes, much less so now. I mean how cheap is that...who goes to a hotel for that special occasion holiday for one night. This is pretty much useless if it stays like this...

It reminds me of when they announced new benefits for Plat members staying at Fairmont hotels last summer. One of them was a free local (but not international) newspaper delivered to your room daily. The thinking must have been: 'the international paper would cost us 50c more to buy so local will do just fine for our highest tier members staying in a 5 star hotel.'
Agreed. They wanted to have the words "suite" and guaranteed" in the same sentence for marketing purpose. By giving very little. Unfortunately it falls short of the bare minimum.
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Old Mar 5, 19, 11:22 pm
  #177  
 
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Originally Posted by lefrid View Post
Agreed. They wanted to have the words "suite" and guaranteed" in the same sentence for marketing purpose. By giving very little. Unfortunately it falls short of the bare minimum.
In a business trip I do not care to get upgraded in a suite. I need a bed and a bathroom from 21:00 to 06:00. On vacation with my wife/children it is a different story though but I do not want to change room during my stay
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Old Mar 6, 19, 12:35 am
  #178  
 
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If the accor sna only valid for 1 night and only 1 granted for plt and 4k statuspoint thereafter (12 max) then it really quite weak benefit
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Old Mar 6, 19, 1:38 am
  #179  
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Originally Posted by Jasper2009 View Post
There is no reason to stay loyal to Accor when better benefits can often be obtained by booking via various consortia / programs such as Amex FHR, Travel Leaders Select, Virtuoso etc. than one would get by having Accor Platinum status
Have you heard of stacking? If you book under one of those other programs, such as FHR, and also have Platinum or Diamond status, you can receive both the FHR and Accor benefits. I've done this many times with Starwood, Hilton, IHG, and once years ago when I was a Fairmont President member. In almost every case I receive a higher than normal upgrade too. So there is a very good reason to stay loyal to Accor and these other programs. You can greatly improve your hotel experience.
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Old Mar 6, 19, 2:05 am
  #180  
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Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
Have you heard of stacking? If you book under one of those other programs, such as FHR, and also have Platinum or Diamond status, you can receive both the FHR and Accor benefits. I've done this many times with Starwood, Hilton, IHG, and once years ago when I was a Fairmont President member. In almost every case I receive a higher than normal upgrade too. So there is a very good reason to stay loyal to Accor and these other programs. You can greatly improve your hotel experience.
I fully agree - "stacking" the consortia benefits with status benefits can work great. I've done it hundreds of times.

But at the end of the day it very much depends on the property what you get from a "rate is eligible for an upgrade based on availability" + "upgrade to a better view, higher floor or the next room category based on status and subject to availability".
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