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ALL - Accor Live Limitless (to replace Le Club from 2020)

ALL - Accor Live Limitless (to replace Le Club from 2020)

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Old Mar 5, 19, 1:21 am
  #136  
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Originally Posted by R2 View Post
Why do they call it 'Suite Night Upgrade'? Why not just call it Guaranteed Suite Upgrade or just Suite Upgrade? I'm sure it's not the intention but it almost sounds like it's limited to one night, not one stay. And there surely is a lenght limitation (at FPC it used to be 5 nigths max for the Suite upgrade).

Having said that, I really like this benefit...it almost seems like they have listened to the whining of all of us ex-FPC members on the loss of that.
This point need to be clarified : a Guaranteed Suite Upgrade (up to 4 or 5 night) is a great benefit, not if it's only a one night suite upgrade.

I would also like free breakfast for Platinium member outside Asia/Pacific


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Old Mar 5, 19, 1:59 am
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Nick Art View Post
The problem is: Currently going halfway between both programs for me and other....
We don't need this pointless conversation again but here we go again. Gold in its current form is far from worthless. We do joke about it that some hotels especially in some select regions do their damned best to avoid giving the benfits we are entitled to. But I don't buy the arguement from FPC members that it is worse than what is being offered now for 2020.

Compared to the old statuses:

Premier required 5 stays or 10 nights min. According to FPC members the hotels would usually cost a good 300-600USD if not more per night. So unless you really tried to game the system and staying at less prestigious fairmonts which do sell for like around 150 USD per night the number of points you would have earnt would come very close to getting platinium membership with Accor.

Platinium FPC program required 10 stays or 30 nights. Again possible someone could book all 1 nighters at Fairmonts but that is Just gaming the system. A regular platinium member doing say a more standard 20-30 nights but qualifing for 10 stays is still going to usually earn around 20,000 points.

So at the end of all this gold is reasonably placed where it is. All companies over the past 2 decades have transferred to systems that try to work the value of loyalty level by how much is spent by the customer.

I would list the memberships as ranked by estimated or known status point levels:

Proposed Diamond status : 26,000 points

FPC platinium estimation (not doing single night stays at relatively cheaper Fairmont hotels: 18,000-22,000 status points.

Accor Platinium proposed 2020: 14,000 status points.

FPC Premier estimated ( Assuming atleast 13-15 nights which is very reasonable and again around averaged prices):10,000- 12,000 status points.

Accor Gold proosed 2020: 7,000 points.

I won't talk about silver as no need.
CandaDH is good example.
14,000 status points , 18 nights or for the old FPC program 3 stays
.
He qualified for Accor platinium but he would have not qualified for FPC plat yet as he would still need to stay 12 nights or 7 more stays.

Looking at this I don't think people are worse off. If CandaDH was to do the 5 stays or 30 nights he would be looking at getting maybe 3 additional suite certs which is actually 1 more than FPC plats were getting.
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Old Mar 5, 19, 2:02 am
  #138  
 
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26k status point is not hard to get, especially with raffles, fairmont, and banyan tree join the ship.

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Old Mar 5, 19, 2:47 am
  #139  
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Originally Posted by tris06 View Post
We don't need this pointless conversation again but here we go again. Gold in its current form is far from worthless. We do joke about it that some hotels especially in some select regions do their damned best to avoid giving the benfits we are entitled to. But I don't buy the arguement from FPC members that it is worse than what is being offered now for 2020.

Compared to the old statuses:

Premier required 5 stays or 10 nights min. According to FPC members the hotels would usually cost a good 300-600USD if not more per night. So unless you really tried to game the system and staying at less prestigious fairmonts which do sell for like around 150 USD per night the number of points you would have earnt would come very close to getting platinium membership with Accor.

Platinium FPC program required 10 stays or 30 nights. Again possible someone could book all 1 nighters at Fairmonts but that is Just gaming the system. A regular platinium member doing say a more standard 20-30 nights but qualifing for 10 stays is still going to usually earn around 20,000 points.

So at the end of all this gold is reasonably placed where it is. All companies over the past 2 decades have transferred to systems that try to work the value of loyalty level by how much is spent by the customer.

I would list the memberships as ranked by estimated or known status point levels:

Proposed Diamond status : 26,000 points

FPC platinium estimation (not doing single night stays at relatively cheaper Fairmont hotels: 18,000-22,000 status points.

Accor Platinium proposed 2020: 14,000 status points.

FPC Premier estimated ( Assuming atleast 13-15 nights which is very reasonable and again around averaged prices):10,000- 12,000 status points.

Accor Gold proosed 2020: 7,000 points.

I won't talk about silver as no need.
CandaDH is good example.
.
He qualified for Accor platinium but he would have not qualified for FPC plat yet as he would still need to stay 12 nights or 7 more stays.

Looking at this I don't think people are worse off. If CandaDH was to do the 5 stays or 30 nights he would be looking at getting maybe 3 additional suite certs which is actually 1 more than FPC plats were getting.
IMO you're severely over-estimating the nightly rates people pay at Fairmont hotels:

1) Rates at 4.5*-5* hotels are *much* more variable than at 3*-4* hotels. Luxury hotels also tend to apply the concept of price discrimination much more widely. A given Fairmont hotel may charge >$500USD/night on certain dates or during peak season, but the same hotel may charge $150-$200USD during off-season / dates with low demand.

2) I can't think of more than maybe half a dozen hotels that charge >$300USD/night year-round. Avg. nightly rates - there are quite a few; but "lowest rates available when travelling during off-season" - there are many ways to stay at Fairmont hotels without breaking the bank

3) For quite some time now the USD:CAD rate has been in the 1:1.25-1.33 range. Given that ~half of the NA Fairmont hotels are in Canada, many people spend *much* less than $300USD/night.

4) The FPC program probably managed to attract an above-average number of leisure travellers, who generally are quite flexible in terms of dates, looking for a reasonable rate, booking non-refundable / promotional rates

5) Especially some of the larger NA city center hotels offer / used to offer massive discounts to their key account corporate clients

And that doesn't even touch on the subject of earning FPC Premier / Platinum status with fewer nights/stays (which, could be argued, were too generous).

Sure, I know of some people who spend $$$$/night, especially if you include spending on food/beverage/spa treatments/etc. But it's definitely not the majority.

And there are many former FPC members who'd choose the FPC Premier benefits over the current Accor Platinum status, let alone Gold status.

But based on yesterday's announcement, Accor seems to slowly heading in the right direction.
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Old Mar 5, 19, 2:54 am
  #140  
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So Jasper2009 ​​​​​​, what do you want to see in the new program?
​​​​​​
​​​​​​
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Old Mar 5, 19, 3:18 am
  #141  
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Originally Posted by gilbertaue View Post
So Jasper2009 ​​​​​​, what do you want to see in the new program?
​​​​​​
​​​​​​
(1) suite upgrade certs confirmed at time of booking, usable on any published rate
-> I very much hope these will be suite upgrade certs similar to the old FPC certs or the Hyatt Diamond certs (i.e. valid for stays of 5-7 nights), and not "suite night rewards" valid for one night only which would e fairly useless

(2) guaranteed early check-in and late check-out for Platinum members and above

(3) complimentary breakfast in all regions for Platinum members would be nice, but I could live with a limited version of that benefit (e.g. only valid at certain brands)

(4) a dedicated customer service desk for status members (or at least Platinum members and above). Accor's customer service and IT platform is mediocre for the most part. I don't necessarily expect the quality of the former FPC Platinum desk - where you'd get a helpful response from a real human being within a few hours (during the day time). But a response from a competent, helpful CS agent within ~48h-72h would be a huge improvement.

(5) In more general terms: HQ making an effort to have hotels honour the published benefits. There are some excellent Accor properties, even some which go above and beyond. But there are far too many properties which try to weasel their way out of provividing any benefits at all. And it often seems as if Accor just doesn't care. I realize that changing the corporate culture can take time, but if Accor wants to compete in the high-end / luxury segment, it will need to seriously work on this.
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Old Mar 5, 19, 3:19 am
  #142  
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Originally Posted by tris06 View Post
We don't need this pointless conversation again but here we go again. Gold in its current form is far from worthless. We do joke about it that some hotels especially in some select regions do their damned best to avoid giving the benfits we are entitled to. But I don't buy the arguement from FPC members that it is worse than what is being offered now for 2020.

Compared to the old statuses:

Premier required 5 stays or 10 nights min. According to FPC members the hotels would usually cost a good 300-600USD if not more per night. So unless you really tried to game the system and staying at less prestigious fairmonts which do sell for like around 150 USD per night the number of points you would have earnt would come very close to getting platinium membership with Accor.

Platinium FPC program required 10 stays or 30 nights. Again possible someone could book all 1 nighters at Fairmonts but that is Just gaming the system. A regular platinium member doing say a more standard 20-30 nights but qualifing for 10 stays is still going to usually earn around 20,000 points.

So at the end of all this gold is reasonably placed where it is. All companies over the past 2 decades have transferred to systems that try to work the value of loyalty level by how much is spent by the customer.

I would list the memberships as ranked by estimated or known status point levels:

Proposed Diamond status : 26,000 points

FPC platinium estimation (not doing single night stays at relatively cheaper Fairmont hotels: 18,000-22,000 status points.

Accor Platinium proposed 2020: 14,000 status points.

FPC Premier estimated ( Assuming atleast 13-15 nights which is very reasonable and again around averaged prices):10,000- 12,000 status points.

Accor Gold proosed 2020: 7,000 points.

I won't talk about silver as no need.
CandaDH is good example.
.
He qualified for Accor platinium but he would have not qualified for FPC plat yet as he would still need to stay 12 nights or 7 more stays.

Looking at this I don't think people are worse off. If CandaDH was to do the 5 stays or 30 nights he would be looking at getting maybe 3 additional suite certs which is actually 1 more than FPC plats were getting.
Counter example: Me.

I usually stay around 10-15 nights per year in 2-3 stays spending between 3000 to max 5000$ all of which is leisure. I used to make it to premier by nights as you can see but nowhere near platinum. With the new LCAH depending on the year I will either just barely make it to gold or reach gold, but not make it to platinum. And compared to FPC premier, LCAH/ALL gold is inferior imho, because no more suite upgrades, no more third night free certs etc. but a upgrade to the next category room (that I have yet to receive even once) and maybe an apple.

I'm not comparing FPC platinum with the new ALL platinum as I didn't hold FPC platinum.

Obviously I will judge the porgram based on my situation in that program which currently is just utterly worse than it used to be under FPC. (Not to mention that I really liked the lack of points and the hazzle they create in FPC, and that answers from CS took a few hours under FPC, while under Accor CS you don't get any answer at all... I could go on forever here)

I think the new benefits in ALL are a step into the right direction, however, for me personally that's completely useless as I'm not affected by any changes (be it positive or negative).

Last edited by Nick Art; Mar 5, 19 at 3:27 am
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Old Mar 5, 19, 3:42 am
  #143  
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Originally Posted by nrouxel View Post
This point need to be clarified : a Guaranteed Suite Upgrade (up to 4 or 5 night) is a great benefit, not if it's only a one night suite upgrade.
Does the French version give any more clarity on this point?

Whoever has a contact at Accor could try to ask for clarity, they must have something 'decided' on this and I really hope this term 'Suite Night Upgrade' is just poor wording...but like someone wrote unfortunately it just could be that its not...

For it to be a really useful benefit (and one that would drive my spending pattern to achieve the necessary status level) it should be up to 5, preferably up to 7 nights.
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Old Mar 5, 19, 4:00 am
  #144  
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I think why I put up this price per night is because pre merger quite a few members of FPC , and I wont say who was always saying they can easily earn platinium membership staying just 1 week at a Fairmont. So to be honest you created the perception to argue your case before. Now times are different you argue a completely different case to suit your statments.
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Old Mar 5, 19, 4:10 am
  #145  
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Old Mar 5, 19, 4:20 am
  #146  
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Dear members,

I would like to take a moment to thank you all for staying loyal to us, and to always share your impressions.

We're hope this new program will satisfy and improve your experience at Accor.

Wish you all the best!
Amy
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Old Mar 5, 19, 4:23 am
  #147  
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Originally Posted by AccorHotels Concierge View Post
Dear members,

I would like to take a moment to thank you all for staying loyal to us, and to always share your impressions.

We're hope this new program will satisfy and improve your experience at Accor.

Wish you all the best!
Amy
Thanks for checking in!

Would you be able to clarify one of the points raised above, i.e. whether the new program will offer "suite night awards" (upgrade limited to one night) or "suite upgrade certificates" (valid for several nights, e.g. one cert per stay of up to 5-7 nights; similar to the former FPC upgrade certs)?
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Old Mar 5, 19, 4:26 am
  #148  
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Originally Posted by tris06 View Post
I think why I put up this price per night is because pre merger quite a few members of FPC , and I wont say who was always saying they can easily earn platinium membership staying just 1 week at a Fairmont. So to be honest you created the perception to argue your case before. Now times are different you argue a completely different case to suit your statments.
If you spend 5.5k for a stay in one week (including dinning and other expenses) (as some people do) it surely is possible, as your example of CanadaDH showed. So, whoever made that argument was not necessarily incorrect when making it, because compared to FPC it is way easier to earn a higher (as per Accor) status than you used to have with FPC. (as an Ex-FPC premier spending an approximate of about 3000-6000$ (or more) for 10 nights (or more) you should make it to gold or even platinum, while platinum members dhould make it close to diamond).
Unfortunately I happen to be in the group that only makes it to gold (based on the room rate I'm paying), but who knows, maybe with the additional spending for dining and co I will make it to platinum as well.

Generally I don't think we can generalize that much as the spending range of ex FPC premiere members may range from 1500$ to maybe even over 10k $ in extreme cases...

Last edited by Nick Art; Mar 5, 19 at 4:32 am
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Old Mar 5, 19, 4:29 am
  #149  
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Originally Posted by AccorHotels Concierge View Post
Dear members,

I would like to take a moment to thank you all for staying loyal to us, and to always share your impressions.

We're hope this new program will satisfy and improve your experience at Accor.

Wish you all the best!
Amy
Thank you Amy,

I (and I'm sure most of the people here) are looking forward to experience the new program which seems to be headed in a good direction!
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Old Mar 5, 19, 4:32 am
  #150  
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Originally Posted by tris06 View Post
I think why I put up this price per night is because pre merger quite a few members of FPC , and I wont say who was always saying they can easily earn platinium membership staying just 1 week at a Fairmont. So to be honest you created the perception to argue your case before. Now times are different you argue a completely different case to suit your statments.
There no doubt are people who consistently spend $300-$600USD/night at Fairmonts, but it's definitely not a majority IME (at least if we're talking about pre-tax room rate only, not including incidentals). If I've ever argued otherwise, you're more than welcome to point me to that post. But there are several issues related to (former) Fairmont patrons:

1) The average (former) Fairmont FPC status member has a very different profile than the average status member of larger loyalty programs in terms of travel style, leisure vs. business travel, income etc. (though that doesn't necessarily mean that the avg. rate per night is ridiculously high)
2) Accor currently doesn't offer much to generate loyalty from people staying at Fairmont properties regularly
3) There is no reason to stay loyal to Accor when better benefits can often be obtained by booking via various consortia / programs such as Amex FHR, Travel Leaders Select, Virtuoso etc. than one would get by having Accor Platinum status
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