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-   -   Accor buys FRHI Holdings (Fairmont, Raffles and Swissôtel) (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/accor-all-accor-live-limitless/1730281-accor-buys-frhi-holdings-fairmont-raffles-swissotel.html)

geilux Feb 2, 16 2:34 am


Originally Posted by ZenWorld (Post 26106457)
At the moment, I will still put Fairmont ahead of Sofitel, so I believe Fairmont should be the top tier brand for Accor.

Although I have to admit that Fairmont is a top and consistent luxury brand, the trend clearly goes towards Sofitel as the "Flagship Brand" of the new group:

Sofitel represents the French elegance coupled with technology and design.
Beside being of French origin, The strategical trend of Accor is clearly there, and you can also see it in the budget brands.

To me, Faimont represents the "old-fashioned luxury" and is not clearly representative of Accor's long term positioning.

Fairmont is the RC of Marriott or WA of Hilton or St Regis of SPG.
But not the flagship !

stimpy Feb 2, 16 7:39 am


Originally Posted by geilux (Post 26119778)
Although I have to admit that Fairmont is a top and consistent luxury brand, the trend clearly goes towards Sofitel as the "Flagship Brand" of the new group:

I agree completely. And by the numbers there are 120 Sofitel's and 70 Fairmont's. To be fair there are a few Sofitel's that are a bit weak and a few Fairmont's that are very strong. But overall Sofitel's are a higher level than Fairmont.

starflyergold Feb 2, 16 10:00 am

Fairmont by Sofitel? :D

geilux Feb 2, 16 10:06 am


Originally Posted by starflyergold (Post 26121270)
Fairmont by Sofitel? :D

Would you create Jaguar by Bentley ? Impossible

Goldorak Feb 2, 16 1:34 pm


Originally Posted by geilux (Post 26119778)
To me, Faimont represents the "old-fashioned luxury" and is not clearly representative of Accor's long term positioning.

I fully agree with that. There is definitely a market for that kind of old-fashioned luxury hotel, but the future lies with a more modern design, and Sofitel is clearly better positioned for this.

stimpy Feb 2, 16 1:52 pm


Originally Posted by Goldorak (Post 26122351)
I fully agree with that. There is definitely a market for that kind of old-fashioned luxury hotel, but the future lies with a more modern design, and Sofitel is clearly better positioned for this.

To be fair there are some newer Fairmont hotels that are very modern. When you think old, you are probably thinking about most of the North American properties. Around much of the rest of the world they are very modern. Dubai is an example.

Jasper2009 Feb 2, 16 2:11 pm


Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 26122440)
To be fair there are some newer Fairmont hotels that are very modern. When you think old, you are probably thinking about most of the North American properties. Around much of the rest of the world they are very modern. Dubai is an example.

Agreed. Most of the Fairmont hotels outside NA are quite modern, but even in NA Fairmont has a rather diversified portfolio:

1. iconic landmark properties and grand dame hotels
a. such as the Fairmont San Francisco and the Plaza in the US and
b. the various former CP Railway hotels in Canada

2. resort properties (Mexico, Bermuda etc.)

3. many new(er) developments over the last 5-10 years such as the Fairmont Pittsburgh, Fairmont Waterfront Vancouver, Fairmont Pacific Rim - the latter arguably is among the most modern city center hotels in Canada

Goldorak Feb 2, 16 2:15 pm


Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 26122440)
To be fair there are some newer Fairmont hotels that are very modern. When you think old, you are probably thinking about most of the North American properties. Around much of the rest of the world they are very modern. Dubai is an example.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking about. But thank you for the precision. I'm not familiar enough with those brands.

IMH Feb 2, 16 2:53 pm


Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 26122440)
When you think old, you are probably thinking about most of the North American properties. Around much of the rest of the world they are very modern.


Originally Posted by Jasper2009 (Post 26122554)
Agreed. Most of the Fairmont hotels outside NA are quite modern[...]

This sounds to me like a good reason to rebrand at least the more modern Fairmonts. I've only experienced a couple of N American Fairmonts and formed an impression of them as rather staid, to put it politely -- definitely not a brand I would seek out if there were a Pullman, Swissôtel or Sofitel nearby.

stimpy Feb 2, 16 3:28 pm


Originally Posted by IMH (Post 26122783)
This sounds to me like a good reason to rebrand at least the more modern Fairmonts. I've only experienced a couple of N American Fairmonts and formed an impression of them as rather staid, to put it politely -- definitely not a brand I would seek out if there were a Pullman, Swissôtel or Sofitel nearby.

A slight rebrand is a good idea. Like the Sofitel Legend properties, there should be Fairmont Legend properties. The Château Frontenac is a legendary property and it should be reflected in its name.

Le Château Frontenac, a Fairmont Legend hotel.

gilbertaue Feb 2, 16 5:41 pm


Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 26122973)
A slight rebrand is a good idea. Like the Sofitel Legend properties, there should be Fairmont Legend properties. The Château Frontenac is a legendary property and it should be reflected in its name.

Le Château Frontenac, a Fairmont Legend hotel.

Sure, but no harm in just calling it Le Château Frontenac, a Sofitel Legend hotel.

Just like the Parklane in HK also kept its name and it's "....a Pullman Hotel".

stimpy Feb 2, 16 5:58 pm


Originally Posted by gilbertaue (Post 26123575)
Sure, but no harm in just calling it Le Château Frontenac, a Sofitel Legend hotel.

Just like the Parklane in HK also kept its name and it's "....a Pullman Hotel".

True it has been Le Château Frontenac a lot longer than Fairmont has been around. But it depends on how important their existing Canadian Fairmont customers feel about the change. If Accor feels they are OK with losing the Fairmont name, then it will disappear quickly. But let's not forget all the corporate contracts that may have to be updated with the name change. That can take a long time especially if we are talking about the Canadian government!

gilbertaue Feb 2, 16 6:13 pm

ok, then:

"Le Château Frontenac, a Fairmont Legend hotel, managed by Sofitel" LOL :p

virtualaris Feb 2, 16 7:24 pm


Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 26122440)
To be fair there are some newer Fairmont hotels that are very modern. When you think old, you are probably thinking about most of the North American properties. Around much of the rest of the world they are very modern. Dubai is an example.

Couldn't agree more. Fairmont Makkah Clock Royal Tower is another impressive example. Meanwhile, Pullman Zamzam Makkah is on the next tower (ZamZam Tower)

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8650/...af092428e4.jpg

codesinvan Feb 3, 16 8:30 am


Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 26123654)
True it has been Le Château Frontenac a lot longer than Fairmont has been around.

This is true - I am not sure Canadians (being one) are that attached to the Fairmont name. The original "old style" luxury hotels were part of Canadian Pacific Railway and were only re-branded as Fairmont back in the 1990s when they were spun out of CP. It's more likely to hear Canadians refer to them by their name (e.g. Chateau Frontenac, the Royal York, Queen Elizaeth etc.) than as "The Fairmont". So, if Accor wanted to re-brand or distribute among current brands - I am not sure it would make much of a difference.

Already there is a difference between the Pacific Rim and one of the un-renovated old-style luxury properties - like the Royal York (just before or during the current renovation) or the Empress.


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