Originally Posted by Jasper2009
(Post 27375966)
I don't disagree. But if it makes you any happier, I don't expect a mad rush of FPC Plats invading Sofitel properties across the world.
Many of the things that are common to other hotel programs for their top tier members, like upgrades on check-in, or access to executive lounges, are simply not a benefit of the Fairmont program. They may not have extended the FPC Plat match to Accor Platinum members, but even if they had, I don't think you'd notice much difference in your stay experience.
Originally Posted by Jasper2009
(Post 27375966)
While my sample size may not be representative, I sent out a note to all my clients who have FPC Plat status and obviously also followed the reactions in the Fairmont forum, and to my surprise the reaction has mostly been "yeah, who cares", "Sofitels may be nice, but I don't like Accor and their CS is terrible" and "I used to have Accor Plat status and it didn't do much for me"
The most positive response I got was "is there a good Sofitel you can recommend?" If/when they eventually merge the programs, then things might change. But as long as the programs are separate, I wouldn't expect a big influx of FPC members flocking to Sofitels and scooping up the upgrades. |
Originally Posted by gilbertaue
(Post 27375889)
While if I travel to the US, which was the strategic region for Accor to acquire, I have no choice, and no status.
Originally Posted by gilbertaue
(Post 27375862)
Thank you Accor for making me feel like a F1 guest.
I'm sure there are many others who have spent more, but what I am getting at is that I don't see why someone who has 10 stays at a Fairmont is now given the same privileges that I have access to but not vice versa. 2.) From your posts, I'm not really sure you understand what a loyalty program is supposed to do. A loyalty program's purpose is not to reward regular customers per se. Loyalty programs are designed to modify the decisions customers make. You're not targeting people which give you their business no matter what. You're trying to set incentives to generate additional business. And, the cost of setting those incentives should be less than the profits the new business generates. Obviously, it's not possible in practice to perfectly incentivise individual customers. And because of that, some people may free-ride on a loyalty program. That's part of what FT is about. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy reading this discussion. However, thus far, I don't think I've seen a convincing story explaining why Accor is choosing this route. |
Originally Posted by fppmongo
(Post 27376425)
Not sure we know that to be true. Maybe the main strategic goal was to gain expertise in the luxury segment.
Time to stop the ranting, I think. 1.) The profit you create for Accor is not something that's proportional to the revenue you generate. Profit doesn't just depend on revenue. Reality is much more complicated. High-revenue generating customer doesn't necessarily equate to high-profit generating customer. 2.) From your posts, I'm not really sure you understand what a loyalty program is supposed to do. A loyalty program's purpose is not to reward regular customers per se. Loyalty programs are designed to modify the decisions customers make. You're not targeting people which give you their business no matter what. You're trying to set incentives to generate additional business. And, the cost of setting those incentives should be less than the profits the new business generates. Obviously, it's not possible in practice to perfectly incentivise individual customers. And because of that, some people may free-ride on a loyalty program. That's part of what FT is about. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy reading this discussion. However, thus far, I don't think I've seen a convincing story explaining why Accor is choosing this route.
So with positive news of Accor acquiring FRHI, and the now poor handling of the Loyalty program merger on their part, I am ranting. And will continue to do so. What I see as a general trend here by FPC members is the assumption that there is no benefit in holding Accor Plat and I see the complete opposite. Referring to stays several years ago isn't reflective of the current situation either. I only had a handful of stays in the past 12 months where I did not receive one or the other benefit granted to Platinum status. My sample stays are probably also not fully reflective of the Accor global spread as I spend about 80% of my stays in APAC and the rest in Europe. It may be worse in other regions - but we are reading less and less of such reports (compared to some years ago). The reason I am with Accor is not the points - and I somewhat agree with a previous poster, if they want to remove the points system for high end hotels I may even be ok with it (as long as the stays there count towards status). I am with Accor due to the benefits it offers - so why would I be with them if they weren't granted consistently? As a result what is this loyalty (and the resulting benefits) generating for Accor? 4 of my fellow colleagues have switched over to Accor. 1 has already reached Platinum status due to stays.
Originally Posted by Jasper2009
(Post 27375966)
I don't disagree. But if it makes you any happier, I don't expect a mad rush of FPC Plats invading Sofitel properties across the world. While my sample size may not be representative, I sent out a note to all my clients who have FPC Plat status and obviously also followed the reactions in the Fairmont forum, and to my surprise the reaction has mostly been "yeah, who cares", "Sofitels may be nice, but I don't like Accor and their CS is terrible" and "I used to have Accor Plat status and it didn't do much for me" The most positive response I got was "is there a good Sofitel you can recommend?" |
Originally Posted by gilbertaue
(Post 27377943)
What I see as a general trend here by FPC members is the assumption that there is no benefit in holding Accor Plat and I see the complete opposite. Referring to stays several years ago isn't reflective of the current situation either. I only had a handful of stays in the past 12 months where I did not receive one or the other benefit granted to Platinum status.
I come back to my previous point: I just think that non regular members have not stayed often enough in Accor properties around the world in recent times to get a feel of the changes. So if you have Accor Plat, and you are in a region where there are hardly any Fairmont properties (ie APAC) why not try and then comment. And that is why I assumed earlier: Are most FPC members just restricted to the highly-populated NA market? Having had Accor Plat status in the past (after the improvements 2-3 years ago), my experience could be summarized as follows: - the executive lounges in APAC were very nice, and service at times even 5* - service at most hotels in Asia was very good, outside Asia it was very hit and miss - Accor Plat members essentially earn a fixed 8% (now 8.8%) ROI via the points they earn (potentially more with promos), which hardly gets anyone excited compared with the other hotel loyalty programs out there - upgrades have been no better than at other major hotel chains such as Hilton, Starwood etc., and at times required pushing the front desk agent, I much prefer the "upgrade confirmed at time of booking" vs. the (homeopathic) "upgrade based on availability at check-in" Accor offers - many hotels lack an understanding of "loyalty"; this includes simple things such as "we'd like to reward you for your loyalty and as a sign of appreciation we'll give you a free non-alcoholic drink or a glass of mediocre house wine" - either offer a free drink or get rid of that benefit - my experience with Accor CS has been rather mediocre (this includes both my recent experience requesting points credit, dealing with Accor CS in general as well as my experience dealing with Accor as a TA). That being said, there's a good chance I'll shift a few stays to Accor based on having Plat status now. Unlike Hyatt Diamond or Fairmont Platinum status, Accor Plat is hardly a program I'm excited about. But I'm quite willing to give Accor another chance... ---- And to answer your question: Yes, most FPC Plat members are based in NA. I don't know how many Plat members travel outside NA and how often, but I'll guess that many trips NA-based FPC Plats take to Europe/Asia are for leisure. IMO Plat members are mainly interested in three main aspects: 1. great service at the property; staying at a unique landmark / historical property (Accor certainly has a few ptoperties in Asia and Europe which fall into that category) 2. great customer service on all levels and a great loyalty program in general (with all due respect, Accor hardly is known for this and has a lot of catching up to do) 3. upgrades confirmed at time of booking on those stays when it really matters (which FPC offers, while Accor isn't known to be overly generous with their "upgrades based on availability") |
I agree with you on all points here Jasper2009. Well said.
The Fairmont experience is certainly something different and this is where I say "why not allow us the same level of possibility to experience it". I could easily move my Jakarta stays over to the Fairmont and achieve the 10 stays and have FPC Plat, at the expense of not staying at the Pullman Central Park which understand loyalty 100%. But it is at that expense and just for the sake of getting FPC Plat? Then why not match status outright. |
Originally Posted by Jaunt411
(Post 27374279)
Good question.
I have an old LeCA account (which I'd abandoned due to my frustrations with the way that program is administered), and when I followed the link I couldn't create a new Gold level account with my main email address. I just ended up with my old Classic level account. So, I gave up. If it ends up a choice between LeCA or nothing, it'll be nothing for me. Why you didn't get the offer email, I wouldn't know. I have been Swissotel Eleva for about 2 years. The reply also implied to me that when Accor sends me the Gold status offer (as they have requested they send it to me manually now), that I would be able to login and upgrade my existing Le Club account. I don't know if this is really going to happen, but Swissotel thinks it will. |
I think my strategy to requalify for Accor Platinum in 2018 would be to sign up for FPC and make 10 one-night stays at some Fairmonts and cheaper Swissotel.
I can then spend the rest of my available resources (time and money) to build up my status at other programs like SPG :) |
Originally Posted by FGunawan
(Post 27398138)
I think my strategy to requalify for Accor Platinum in 2018 would be to sign up for FPC and make 10 one-night stays at some Fairmonts and cheaper Swissotel.
I can then spend the rest of my available resources (time and money) to build up my status at other programs like SPG :) |
Originally Posted by gilbertaue
(Post 27398169)
I am thinking along the same lines. Just take note, FPC is FPC, swissotel is swissotel. So you need 10x 1 night stays at Fairmont for FPC Plat.
"Receive Stay Credits at Raffles Hotels & Resorts and at Swissotel Hotels & Resorts" It's one of the items in the listed FPC benefits which can be read here: https://www.fairmont.com/fpc/benefits/ :) |
Originally Posted by FGunawan
(Post 27398138)
I think my strategy to requalify for Accor Platinum in 2018 would be to sign up for FPC and make 10 one-night stays at some Fairmonts and cheaper Swissotel.
I can then spend the rest of my available resources (time and money) to build up my status at other programs like SPG :) Also, if you can earn credits by staying at Swissotel, why does Swissotel have its own Circle program? I'm currently Eleva at Swissotel, and could have a lot of future Swissotel stays, so I'm trying to work out the best way to credit these. |
Originally Posted by sxc
(Post 27398208)
Sorry - how does this work? Is there some kind of status match or equivalence from FPC to Le Club?
Also, if you can earn credits by staying at Swissotel, why does Swissotel have its own Circle program? I'm currently Eleva at Swissotel, and could have a lot of future Swissotel stays, so I'm trying to work out the best way to credit these. I'm not familiar with FPC program. All I know I learned from their official program benefit guidelines: https://www.fairmont.com/fpc/benefits/ And there it says that all FPC members (including newly minted Club members) can "Receive Stay Credits at Raffles Hotels & Resorts and at Swissotel Hotels & Resorts". As for the technicality how to credit Swissotel stay to FPC, you could probably ask in the Fairmont forum :) |
Originally Posted by FGunawan
(Post 27398219)
Since getting FPC platinum is much less time consuming and less expensive than getting Accor platinum (60 nights or EUR 5600 spend), why not go through the FPC route?
This year, I needed 34 nights to renew plat. Those nights cost me slightly under 3000 EUR. However, I also received 26,000 bonus points worth about 500 EUR. Accounting for that, I paid 2500 EUR for plat. Of course, the changes to the Accor program will significantly alter the spending you need to achieve plat for 2018. So, from 2018 onwards, Accor might be well-advised to think differently about status matching from LCAH to Fairmont (or Swissotel). But up to and including 2017, it's just bunk IMO that Accor status is so much more costly to achieve. |
Originally Posted by FGunawan
(Post 27398198)
Ah but did you see this in FPC program guidelines:
"Receive Stay Credits at Raffles Hotels & Resorts and at Swissotel Hotels & Resorts" It's one of the items in the listed FPC benefits which can be read here: https://www.fairmont.com/fpc/benefits/ :) |
Originally Posted by fppmongo
(Post 27398264)
The claim that you need 5600€ for Accor is bunk.
This year, I needed 34 nights to renew plat. Those nights cost me slightly under 3000 EUR. However, I also received 26,000 bonus points worth about 500 EUR. Accounting for that, I paid 2500 EUR for plat. Of course, the changes to the Accor program will significantly alter the spending you need to achieve plat for 2018. So, from 2018 onwards, Accor might be well-advised to think differently about status matching from LCAH to Fairmont (or Swissotel). But up to and including 2017, it's just bunk IMO that Accor status is so much more costly to achieve. Now Accor is making it difficult for its existing members (as mentioned, 60 nights or EUR 5600), while giving it out like candy for potentially 10-nighter FPC platinums (or even fewer nights, maybe 5 but not sure, with North American credit cards). The logical thing to do is just to make a jump to FPC and do 10 one-night stays there in 2017 and spend the rest of one's resources elsewhere :) |
You would think with the merger, they would take the opportunity to get their loyalty house in order.
Just like anything Accor, everything seems inconsistent and disjointed. |
Originally Posted by sxc
(Post 27398208)
Also, if you can earn credits by staying at Swissotel, why does Swissotel have its own Circle program?
Originally, only FPC elite members (i.e. Premier and Platinum) could earn stay credit for Swissotel and Raffles stays, presumably to offer a "small" incentive for the odd stay at one of the sister properties. 1-2 years ago FPC relaxed that rule, and now anyone can earn stay credit in the FPC program for Swissotel and Raffles stays, potentially providing a very generous loophole for some here. |
Originally Posted by FGunawan
(Post 27398219)
And there it says that all FPC members (including newly minted Club members) can "Receive Stay Credits at Raffles Hotels & Resorts and at Swissotel Hotels & Resorts". As for the technicality how to credit Swissotel stay to FPC, you could probably ask in the Fairmont forum :)
If it doesn't, you send a quick e-mail to FPC and will usually get a friendly response from a competent agent within a day. (which will be a rather shocking an eye-opening experience for people used to the Accor customer "service". :p ) |
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[QUOTE=sxc;27398208.....if you can earn credits by staying at Swissotel,...
[/QUOTE] Can you? So why aren't Accor member cards accepted at Swissotels? |
Originally Posted by LukeO9
(Post 27441561)
Can you?
So why aren't Accor member cards accepted at Swissotels? 1) You can earn stay credit for Swissotel and Raffles stays within the Fairmont FPC program (since all three brands used to be / are owned by FRHI) 2) Fairmont, Swissotel and Raffles used to and still have separate loyalty programs, even though they were/are all owned by FRHI 3) Currently it is not possible to earn stay credit for Accor stays with the Fairmont/Swissotel/Raffles program, and like-wise it is not possible to earn points/stay credit for Fairmont/Swissotel/Raffles stays within the Accor program. |
Originally Posted by FGunawan
(Post 27398138)
I think my strategy to requalify for Accor Platinum in 2018 would be to sign up for FPC and make 10 one-night stays at some Fairmonts and cheaper Swissotel.
I can then spend the rest of my available resources (time and money) to build up my status at other programs like SPG :) Quick update on this - apparently not good. Read post #124 here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/fairm...issotel-9.html |
Originally Posted by FGunawan
(Post 27518225)
Quick update on this - apparently not good. Read post #124 here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/fairm...issotel-9.html |
I have 43 nights this year with Accor. Could end the year with 45-47 nights we'll see. I'll squeeze in my Accor wish list stays in hotels with lounges in 2017 and be content with 2018 Gold for 30 nights (32 with Stay Plus certificates). Will go for SPG Platinum at the same time before the program folds into another scheme.
|
Fairmont programme will continue in 2017
I think we are going to wait more for programs merger/integration...:rolleyes:
it has been announced that the Fairmont program will remain as it is at least until end 2017. Only minor adjustments are done (stays booked through OTA will not be eligible anymore). http://loyaltylobby.com/2016/11/22/f...if-not-longer/ |
Originally Posted by Goldorak
(Post 27530129)
I think we are going to wait more for programs merger/integration...:rolleyes:
|
Originally Posted by Goldorak
(Post 27530129)
I think we are going to wait more for programs merger/integration...:rolleyes:
it has been announced that the Fairmont program will remain as it is at least until end 2017. Only minor adjustments are done (stays booked through OTA will not be eligible anymore). http://loyaltylobby.com/2016/11/22/f...if-not-longer/ When we joined AccorHotels this past July, we promised you an update on our Swissôtel Circle program. We’re pleased to announce that your Swissôtel Circle experience will remain unchanged throughout the next program year, and you’ll continue to enjoy all the same exclusive benefits, rewards and privileges in 2017. |
Accor CEO claiming the integration is going smoothly "We are adding distribution capabilities, we are adding loyalty programmes, we are adding presence and market leadership – it’s a win-win scenario between everybody.” :confused:
http://www.hoteliermiddleeast.com/28...oing-smoothly/ |
I received this email this morning from Accor Plus. Do notice the bold parts.
We at AccorHotels have had a very busy year, building a bigger, better, network of hotels to give you more choice, more extraordinary experiences and more destinations when you travel. The holiday season is a great time to reflect on the year and we welcome the addition of the prestigious Raffles, Fairmont and Swissôtel brands which provide access to some of the world’s most iconic hotels from Raffles Singapore to the Plaza New York, the Savoy in London and the Fairmont Chateau Lake Louise. We have also invested in One Fine Stay, Oasis Collection and Square Break, all leaders in private rentals, to ensure that whether you are staying for business, leisure, with family and friends or alone, we can always exceed your expectations. While our members cannot yet earn or redeem Le Club AccorHotels points or access Accor Plus benefits in these brands, we will continue to make you Feel Welcome across the world. You can however utilise your Le Club AccorHotels points with our extended network in China as we have strengthened our strategic alliance with Huazhu Hotels Group. We are also proud that for the second year in a row, your loyalty has won Le Club AccorHotels the Best Loyalty Program in the Freddie Awards, the ‘Oscars of the Loyalty industry’. I wish you a wonderful festive season and all the best for a rich and rewarding 2017. Thank you for your loyalty. Best regards, Michael Issenberg Chairman & CEO AccorHotels Asia Pacific |
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Today I received yet another email from Accor touting Raffles, Fairmont and Swissotel. What nobody in Paris seems to understand is that I have zero incentive to stay at any of them. It is quite simple: no loyalty = no stay.
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Originally Posted by starflyergold
(Post 27619529)
Today I received yet another email from Accor touting Raffles, Fairmont and Swissotel. What nobody in Paris seems to understand is that I have zero incentive to stay at any of them. It is quite simple: no loyalty = no stay.
I'm already anxious to earn some points at the Raffles Singapore. |
Meanwhile SPG and Marriott announced their new promo for 2017. But the programs are not merging so in that respect Marriott is no better than Accor. I cannot stay at Marriott hotels and earn Starpoints or vice versa. I think it shows how huge a task it is merging disparate programs.
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http://www.hoteliermiddleeast.com/29...bastien-bazin/
Another part of any acquisition raises questions about loyalty programmes, which is always an interesting topic of discussion. Prior to the acquisition, FRHI ran ‘guest recognition programmes’ under the headlines of Fairmont President’s Club, Raffles Ambassadors, and Swissôtel Circle, while AccorHotels has the Le Club AccorHotels programme. Will these merge or stay the same? Bazin responds quickly that these will not stay the same, rather, they will be merged to help guests across all brands benefit from shared advantages. “But it’s going to be done about 18 months into transition because they have a different programme. That means we have to link all the IT systems — which is doable but it takes a bit of time. If anything, our loyalty programme is today 33 million clients and they have 3.5 million. They bring to me a lot of US-based loyalty programme holders where we have very minimum so they bring me sizeable portion of the United States. But there again it’s win-win,” he explains. “Part of our game is retaining loyal customers,” shares Bazin. “And if you want to retain them, offer them what they want. Jean Paul is connected to this — because when you want to render services to those who will be away from you because they are not living in your hotel, everything will go through digital. So the digital concierge will be the facilitator to interact with those private rental guests where they can get the services they want under the umbrella of Accor 24/7,” he says. |
Definately sounds like 31st of December 2017 is the end of the Fairmont programs.
|
Originally Posted by gilbertaue
(Post 27746451)
http://www.hoteliermiddleeast.com/29...bastien-bazin/
And hopefully good news in terms of Customer Service: |
Originally Posted by ptownca
(Post 27778166)
Let me say, we Fairmont folks are not happy seeing FPC go away. It is a very different program, not based on points, but provides other benefits and experiences. FPC customer service is uniformly excellent and responsive.
And there is a reason why I pasted the second part. I am very intrigued how Jean Paul comes into play and desperately hope that they will take on the CS part for Accor instead of the useless 3rd party they use now. What we don't know is how it will look like in 2018. So I would make your concerns heard in the FPC thread and come up with how you hope it will look like. I can assure you that the LCAH loyalty team at HQ read through our threads frequently and are certainly open for suggestions. |
I got mail today about a new batch of three "Dream Stay" offers, one of which is for Le Royal Monceau, Raffles Paris. It's not a very exciting package (just one night in a junior suite, one breakfast and an hour in the spa). They talk about "memorable cuisine" in the restaurant but don't include dinner. At 44,000 points it's not cheap, but it is significantly less expensive than this hotel's cash prices.
This is the first opportunity I've spotted to use LCAH points at a former FRHI property. |
I just got a new Swissotel Eleva card extending my status thru 02/2019.
No mention of any changes ... just keep enjoying the current membership benefits. |
I just spotted an opportunity to spend accor points at a Raffles hotel via the Dream Stays:
The package costs 44.000 points and includes: -1 night in a Junior Suite -Daily breakfast -One-hour spa treatment at the hotel spa Not interesting for me, but for 880€ worth of points it does seem worth it if you are looking to book here. The cheapest for a room here during this timeframe is 760€ (and there is only 1 night available at that price). T&C: FROM 44,000 REWARDS POINTS The special offer at Le Royal Monceau - Raffles Paris includes 1 night for 2 people in a Junior Suite, breakfast included, a one-hour spa treatment per person at the spa My Blend by Clarins. Accommodation is free for children aged under 12 sharing their parents' room. For the children sharing parent’s home, breakfast is free for the ones who are less than 3 years old and children who are between 3 and 12 years old get a 50% discount on the breakfasts. This offer does not include: - Transport costs - Tourist taxes (to be paid at the hotel) - Additional meals or drinks - Any other expenses (personal expenses, taxi fares, minibar, laundry services, etc.) to be paid for at the hotel This special offer for two people is valid for bookings made before 30 April 2017 for stays between 17 February and 30 June 2017. Please give the number of your loyalty card when reserving your stay by telephone and upon arrival at the hotel. Points used for this offer cannot be refunded in the event of cancellation. Payments made using Le Club AccorHotels Rewards points (44,000 Rewards points for Le Royal Monceau - Raffles Paris) are not themselves eligible for Le Club AccorHotels Rewards points. This hotel is offered exceptionally as part of DreamStay but does not participate in the Le Club AccorHotels loyalty programme. You will therefore not earn any points during your stay, whatever the amount spent at the hotel. This offer cannot be combined with other current offers or discounts and do not apply to groups. |
THANK YOU ACCORHOTELS!
Not only did you stay quiet vis-a-vis your own members end of last year when Fairmont FPC members were given a status match to be LCAH Platinum members till end 2017, but now they have been target AGAIN to have their Accor Platinum status extended until end of 2018! And in the meantime: "Let's let the LCAH members sweat it out in 2017 to gain status. Haha" (sarcastic). It's great to see how little comes from Accorhotels to their own members in regards to the newly acquired chains versus the communication the FPS members are getting. And in case the management has missed the point: I don't mind staying at a Fairmont, but why should I if I don't get status matched. |
Originally Posted by gilbertaue
(Post 28270791)
It's great to see how little comes from Accorhotels to their own members in regards to the newly acquired chains versus the communication the FPS members are getting.
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