Originally Posted by
doctoravios
I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you in this situation. However, whatever kind of precaution you take, there is some risk that you will encounter the virus if you are in closer proximity to another human (hazmat suit or not) or come into contact with objects which have been exposed by another human.
Personally, I would travel to your wife and assume that whatever you do you may become infected and then quarantine yourself for at least 2 weeks when you get back. If you do multiple RT-PCR tests over this period and they all come back negative then it is safe to assume you are not infectious after 14 days (I say multiple because there is a risk of a false negative result if you only do a single test). Do not rely on wearing a hazmat suit or any other protective equipment as false reassurance that you cannot have been exposed. It is simply impossible to maintain sterile conditions when travelling.
But, the other thing I would say is that both you and your father are going to continue to be at risk from being exposed to this virus one way or another. There is no way to avoid being exposed unless you are in complete isolation (which you are not, because your father has to have contact with healthcare professionals to receive his treatment). I think you have to accept that life is a balance of risks and live according to how you want to play the odds. I am afraid there is no way to avoid gambling in this respect - we take risks in this pandemic with every breath we take.
Thank you posting. Definitely a balance on the risk/reward, that's for sure.
Originally Posted by
EuropeanPete
A hotel room can be quite safe if you pick one which hasn’t been entered by anyone in 5+ days (so long as ventilation systems are not dangerous). I agree with you that instead relying on someone to fully sterilise it is a fool’s errand though.
I agree that one that's been vacant for a while may be a bit safer in terms of covid, but who knows what else may be there. I know that hotels will typically not deep clean a room except maybe once a quarter since the idea is to keep them occupied and clean them every day and then get all the other stuff on the deep clean. And with hotel revenues hit so hard, I doubt they would not have deeply cut payroll costs as that is one of the biggest monthly operating expenses next to debt service. Unfortunately that entire industry is in survival mode and with 5 and 6 figure debt services, I frankly don't know how more than 50% of them will survive without business travel recovering.
Originally Posted by
JNelson113
I did see two people in the boarding area at DEN a few weeks ago in full hazmat so it must be okay.
If it were me I would go visit your wife then quarantine upon your return for about 5-7 days. Then take a test. If negative, go back to your dad.
Wishing you the best; this is very tough.
Thank you for the post and additional information. It is brutally hard.
Originally Posted by
D3KingAmerican
dude you’ll be fine. Go to church if it makes you feel better. You know what to do put on a mask and use hand sanitizer. It will be fine. I would buy the most expensive fare and early morning flight which I feel would increase the odds of not being on a crowded plane. You will be ok go see your wife.
I hope you're right! I have terrible luck so I plan for the worst.
Originally Posted by
azepine00
Most expensive fare would likely put you on nearly sold out flt.
DL and WN block middles, AA and UA apparently do not right now.
Wear a good protecting mask make sure it fits well and use common sense.
Gotcha. Thank you for the additional information. Yep. I've done well so far and so has my dad so our methods must be pretty decent.
Originally Posted by
jmastron
They're hard to find now, but I used disposable coveralls with hood ($10-$20 each) when I was removing some popcorn ceiling a few years ago (don't know if it had asbestos, but took precautions as fi it did). I wouldn't hesitate to wear them on a plane right now in your situation and throw away at the destination. If anything the weirder and more "crazy" you look the more of a wide berth people are going to give you! I'd combine that with goggles or safety glasses and an N95 mask, on an airline that actually guarantees empty middle (so spacing is in feet+ rather than inches), and consider that pretty safe.
I looked into these and unfortunately the lead times was longer than I had to make a decision.
I actually have safety glasses.
Originally Posted by
zymm
Do you know the nearest testing location near your father's place? A good compromise option would be to isolate for 4 days upon returning, then get a test. If that comes back negative you can be fairly confident you're in the clear and can return to your dad in about half the time as a full quarantine.
I don't, but I will definitely look into it. No matter what I do, knowing how to get a test will be important.
Originally Posted by
eyeballer
This is the answer. Fly to SFO with normal precautions, face mask + face shield for planes along with plenty of hand sanitizer. See wife. Fly back the same way, and isolate in the house if it's big enough, wear the mask and face shield around the house if you need to, or isolate at a nearby hotel and get a test in 3-4 days. You do not need to plan for 2 weeks of quarantine, just get tested.
Definitely sounds like a plan. Yep, house is definitely big enough.
Originally Posted by
expert7700
The talk about isolating in the same house becomes a moot point if you share plates, silverware, a bathroom. or even a shared HVAC system if like most US homes and apartments you don't get many outside air exchanges per day. the CNN reported Chris Cuomo was living in his basement of a large home but still infected his wife and child....
With the risk of being insensitive, I'd like to add another perspective: The OP married his wife, not his father. He senses he needs to see his relatively new wife and at home before things become rockier. The OP has been devoting most of his time to his aging father rather than his spouse who he has a statistically longer future committment with. Even in normal times that can tax a relationship or cause a hurt spouse to hold back on true feelings of not being comfortable with the situation.
There are 7 different AC units and where I would be is on a completely different 'circuit' than my dad (and I can get even further away if I really needed to), so that shouldn't be an issue. We both also have our own bathrooms and don't have to share anything in between (aside from me cleaning his bathroom), so there should be enough isolation, and definitely enough potential to make the distance even further if need be.
Thank you for the perspective as it's great insight as to what potentially can happen with spouses in this situation.
Originally Posted by
Stgermainparis
This was a very sensitive, kind post that highlights issues many of us are confronting or may confront. I have been worried how I will be able to respond if my immuno compromised aging father (77) becomes ill and needs in-home care. I can't leave my spouse and 3 kids (and work) for months (maybe 2-3 weeks tops). Nor would I. At some point I'd either have to move my father to us (in our already bursting house or a nearby apt/condo) or I'd have to hire help for him at his home. I think it might help OP to think about the long term. The future picture may provide some insight into how to handle the current predicament.
I completely understand your situation and planning is the key. My dad's cancer actually is a side issue as I've been handling his affairs for the last few years to help him dig out of millions of dollars of debt and from underneath operating businesses that were crushing my parents. So I've got the marriage, my dad's health, and my dad's financial problems. Once my dad's chemo ends, I don't have to be there for that, but there's still the financial problems and businesses, so I will still have ties there until that stuff is all settled.
Originally Posted by
eyeballer
Plate and silverware are not a concern assuming they are washed between uses - or use disposable. Bathrooms and HVAC are a concern but, again, if the house is large enough it can be worked around.. use personal bathrooms and block HVAC intakes in the room and wear a mask when outside of the room - could even "camp" in a garage and use a single bathroom for a few days pending test results (just wear a mask when entering the house and wash/sanitize hands appropriately). It's an option. A nearby hotel/airbnb works if you can find something suitable.
Since it's just the two of us, we have a fixed number of dishes in the dishwasher that are used and then put back each day and we run the dishwasher every day regardless of what's used. This keeps my dad from just piling up dishes endlessly because of the work of putting them in and the putting them up, and he's always got clean utensils. I've had to implement several different systems like this to keep him properly hygienic as he has aged he has adopted a lot of third world hygienic practices (even though he never had them growing up
)--even some basics like not eating rotten food.
I actually worry about this more than covid most of the time.
There's plenty of bathrooms and hvac units and it's large enough that I think isolation shouldn't be an issue. I can literally go days without seeing him if need be. And there are a lot of hotels nearby too, but I wouldn't trust them as much as myself at his house.
Originally Posted by
narvik
I agree with you that quarantining outside the home might be better, but I do believe it could be possible to share a home and still maintain proper quarantine, but it would require GREAT discipline!
Discipline I can definitely handle.
And I've traveled where the local germs can put me in the hospital so I know enough about avoidance behaviors to adapt them domestically if need be. I've actually been following that discipline for quite a while now, but not with a aim for perfection which I could just implement.
Originally Posted by
QT31415
This! It's what I do prior to returning to work (medical field), after travelling. Also, your wife may consider getting tested prior to your visit. You may have to pay out of pocket, but it's cheaper than chartering a jet! In washington state, you can order your own tests without a doctor's rx.
Thank you for the insight! Good to hear from someone that has much more exposure. I highly doubt she would have it as she basically hasn't left the home since before the mandatory lockdown as her company implemented wfh 1 month before things got bad. I think she would have developed it by now. Still, it is vector and needs to be considered. Thank you for the post!
Originally Posted by
WilcoRoger
I'd venture to suggest to shut down the HVAC and open the windows? Very olde skool I know, but some of us still remember that trick
With 90% humidity and high heat indexes getting to be normal now that we're in the summer, that would be awful as heat stroke and heat exhaustion would be a real concern.
At home in CA, this would be an awesome idea!
Originally Posted by
Loren Pechtel
Another possibility: So far I have always been able to buy gas with nobody near me. Pay at the pump, use gloves or use hand sanitizer when you're done. The infection risk is minimal.
Plan your route with an eye to wilderness--camp (not at a campsite!) for the two or possibly three nights (you might need to take a less direct route) you'll need. The trip can be done without ever entering a building. You'll need to buy camping equipment but for car camping the cheap stuff is fine. Watch the weather forecast, you don't want to be in a tent if you get a lot of wind.
Yep, that's pretty easy too. Most pumps are on 24x7 even if the lights are off so you can fill up at a 'closed' station any time you want. (One of the businesses my dad owns is a gas station.)
A drive is just so physically brutal and uses so much time that while it is better in terms of health risk, it isn't as good for other things that I'm responsible for. Although it would have been super easy because all I would have needed was a minivan--I can go on a few days without showering and just pack enough food and a blanket and pillow.
Originally Posted by
phillyjoe
Dear Samir,
I woke early on this Sunday morning. My wife won't be up for church (via TV) for a few hours, so I was filling time by reading FT. I am deeply touched by your situation. I am impressed that you are able to reply to answers and questions from other posters in such a dispassionate way while your heart is obviously breaking. You have seemingly answered all the deep personal questions and you seek practical help to follow the path which your mind and heart have already chosen.
I have no practical answers for your journey. But I wanted you to know that many people who don't post to this thread have heard your problems. Today many of us will pray that whatever force you may believe guides our lives will help you to find your correct path. Back toward the beginning of this thread, you mentioned telling your father that he needs to turn on lights instead of wandering in the dark. My specific prayer for you will be that such a light is turned on for you. May you find the needed strength and light.
Thank you for the very touching post. I am deep moved and am humbled to the point of tears. Thank you again.
Originally Posted by
Taikucing
IMHO, driving will be a lower risk than flying. As others have pointed out, you have more control on your exposure risk when you are driving.
Agreed. I just don't think my body would be up to it.
Originally Posted by
keisari
I think the OP needs sympathy and advice. Those of you scolding him for "not living his life" just need to not comment
The OP did not ask our opinion about gong or not going, his father vs wife, or going home vs hanging out in an RV
I like the idea that flying is the best option. Buy an KN-95(but do look at the CDC website before)
I think that a KN-95 with a cloth mask with an insert of HEPA or Carbon filter is good enough
Wear a face shield at all times. Avoid eating or drinking. Take plenty of sanitizer and clean your hand literally every 10-15 minutes.
No gloves are needed. In this case it may be more a problem than help
Wear googles if you want.
Make sure your wife is tested before you arrive (plenty of sites in the Bay Area)
You can be tested before you leave Alabama and before you leave the Bay Area again
Isolate for 3-5 days upon arrival in Alabama and retest again if possible.
Then wear a mask with filter while in the house with your dad for another few days.
It is virtually impossible to bring risk down to zero
Everything is risk vs benefit when we deal with medical issues.
It sounds like the benefit of being home is significant and by doing the above brings your risk down.
All considering what is practical.
And I am so sorry to hear what you have been going through. I cannot start to image the stress you are dealing with.
I wish you the best possible outcome of all this.
Thank you very much for the compassion and ideas. It is appreciated more than you know.
Originally Posted by
sweetsleep
In order to maximize your time with family, have you considered renting a car and driving one way, drop off the car, then fly one way back home?
Just bring gloves and hand sanitizer when you fill up the gas tank, pack a cooler with enough food to make basic sandwiches, breakfast foods, plus fruit, snacks and drinks and of course there is always the fast food drive through for hot food. Maybe rent an SUV and sleep in the car if you put the seats down if staying in a hotel makes you uncomfortable?
If time permits, get tested before you leave and again when you arrive before seeing your family.
Good luck
Yep, considering all the different methods and combinations. I would actually avoid any fast food restaurants as they were never the best at hygiene when all this started. A minivan is awesome for sleeping in the back, and rest areas will allow you to sleep for a few hours as I've done that a few times when I've gotten too sleepy.