Koko, earlier you said your concerns were pedagogical (teaching vs sharing or some such). That didn't work so you're on to different issues.
I am no longer TalkBoard President, and no longer a member of the TalkBoard and I wouldn't presume to put on such a hat.
Rather I know that the events you've referenced are not commercial in the least.
No one is making a dime off of them. And as I've shared, I'm out of my own pocket... not just my flight to the Chicago DO last October where I gave three talks but also for the upcoming April event where I've gone 100k miles in the hole.
This isn't just about 'not making money.' Dude, it's downright generous and you've yet to acknowledge that as you bash the efforts that some folks are undertaking on behalf of their fellow frequent flyers. Which I don't see the critics undertaking themselves.
As far as whether it's ok for ingy or anyone else to cover the expense of their speakers out of funds they've managed to get sponsors to cough up, well I think the best way to handle that is allowing the members to decide.
The TOS it seems to me isn't implicated when the event isn't commercial, which is to say it isn't designed to make a profit. And I don't think the TalkBoard, moderators, or anyone else ought to be in the business of micro-managing the finances of anyone's DOs. Rather, constructively offer some best practices so that organizers don't get hosed with a leftover tab, that seems like a good idea. But nit-picking the details of an event that so many FTers value, what good in that?
Now, I paid my own out-of-pccket airfare to go to Chicago last year. I did get upgraded. Was that wrong because not all of the folks flying there received an upgrade? Do I give a care if ingy pays my hotel or airfare for Chicago this year? Hey, if he says he's got the sponsorship dollars and can do it, great, but I told him I was there last year without any of that and I'd be there again. And I do not expect Frequent Traveler University to pick up the tab for my flights to New York, I'm going to be there anyway.
But if we can get folks who might not otherwise be able to show up? (Remember, I'm out 100k points personally in this to help make that happen!) Then it seems like it ought to be at the discretion of the organizer.
What I do think is important -- and the relevant line morally if not from a TOS standpoint -- is that folks being asked to be to attend be able to ask what their money is going for.
Although if Rick or Tommy or anyone else can get a third party to pick up other costs, great, and those parties are disclosed in both cases. So I'm failing to see the problem here either.
Last year the Chicago Seminar DO gave away several thousand dollars to a bona fide charity. I recall that Tommy's StarMegaDO efforts raised many thousands of dollars for the Captain Jason Dahl Scholarship Fund.
- Would it be crossed if an organizer used some of the 'excess funds' to fly himself and his speakers in in first class rather than coach? And stay at the Ritz rather than the Holiday Inn Hoboken?
- How about if the host does not 'take a profit' but does charge his time at a 'break-even' scale against the revenue?
Is there any evidence that this has
ever happened? That a DO organizer has taken community member funds and used them to fly in first and stay at the Ritz, or taken an honorarium for their speaking or organizing?
I am personally not aware of it, so I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing here?
Finally, and critically, if the rule is not-for-profit events only, who is going to ensure that no one is taking a profit at the end of the day? If we are going to allow for these sorts of quasi-commercial Dos where it's more of a class than a party then how do we keep someone from throwing one and walking off with a tidy profit under the current rules?
There is no absolute guarantee that none of your parade of horribles, that you are much more worried abot than I, could never come to pass.
But until we have an actual ripe controversy I would be much more concerned about the effect of coming up with rules that could stifle the creativity nad generosity of members in planning, organizing and participating in events than I would be worried about someone hypothetically making a buck off the service they provide to other members. @:-)
See what I am saying? It's not YOU or Tommy or Ingy. It's where the line is, and what the possible unintended conceqeunces of where the line is are.
And the unintended consequences of attempting to draw lines, of enforcing rigid rules rather than social normas, the latter of which is often best for governing interactions within a community.
And again, koko, for those folks who give their time and their personal resources to help improve the travel lives of others in the community -- since despite my request several times in this thread for you to say it, I will -- to those folks,
thank you.